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Beren Eoath

WFRP 3.5 or 4e - truth or rumour?

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Beren Eoath said:

 

In WFRP there are to many Taletns (when players will use max 3 of them), 

 

 

 

That doesn't prove true in my game. 6 PCs, all rank 4. All have multiple talents. Talents can be socketed by using a manoeuvre. So you can have different talents for different situations.

While I agree that the number of components can be overwhelming if you don't tame the beast, for our game, things are spiffy.

The only rule I don't use is the recharge for NPCs action cards. I do space the uses and get inspiration from the recharge value, but I wing it. Since NPCs share action cards, it rarely happens that the same NPC will want to use the same card twice in a row. As I said, I just wing those recharge values.

I use 12 sided dice to record NPC normal wounds. Faster than Wound cards.

Aside from that, we are pretty much RAW.

The abundance of cards suits me well since they are just ideas on how to adjudicate special signature moves that a character should be good at. When characters do Perform a Stunts, which they do, I have to come up with something mechanically. Having to do this once in a while is ok. Having to this every time someone acts is mind numbing.

In regular RPGs, the same mechanic will be used for every check. It easy because it is streamlined, always the same. But by experience, I would say that it often becomes stale in the long run. Especially combat rules. Especially in WFRP v1 and v2.

Having all these cards to choose from makes it easy for the GM to surprise the players with something new every encounter. That really spices up the game! And speaking of spices, I think the real failure of WFRP v3 is that the rules don't teach you well enough HOW to deal with all these possibilities. They do tell you to choose what you want, and that the GM can basically do anything in the end. But they don't WALK you through the process of building encounters. 

The result: all these people stressed out because creature actions aren't clearly tagged to creatures. The rules do say that these traits are suggestions and show the action was initially designed for a certain wide type of creature, but you can use them for anyone! THe rules also say that! Use the Dragon breath for a Dwarf flamethrower. Etc. Etc.

My point is that WFRP v3 is a nightmare for control freaks and statisticians.  But for people with more of a "just wing it" attitude, it offers a huge toolbox of stuff that can or may not be used to enhance a game.

As I said earlier, this game works fine for me and my v1 grognards. We love it. We think it still works at rank 4. It does have traces of work in progress design and isn't completely clean (traits, for example). But in game, all this really doesn't matter at all. As GM, I just give NPCs any card I feel will be dramatically interesting and logical for this character.

That is why I want more cards !

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From my perspective the moves that FFG makes with WFRP 3e are similar to those that they made with WFRP 2e. I have a good memory about that time, and there many fans asked FFG will they continiue the WFRP 2e line and FFG anwsered - yes, we will. Then they made 2 or 3 supplements and then announced WFRP 3e. Even the Christmas sale was the same with WFRP 2e and now WFRP 3e. There also was a time os silience from the publisher.

I think that even he WFRP 3e community is a little bit spliting. Some want the game to stay the same and others what the game to change. The only right step for FFG now looks like to unite all WFRP edition fans, those from 1e, 2e and 3e. Why? Becouse the WFRP would sell more, they could release more expansions and earn more money. I have friend and asked on forums wouldl the WFRP 2e fans buy a new WFRP if it would look more classical. The anwser was that when they will make cards and tokens for it then no.

I'm liked  WFRP 3e but the game took a little bit wrong turn. It looks to much like a boardgame to many fans of Warhammer Fantasy. The old fans would like to see a more classical aproach. And now the community is so small that even on this forum we dusscuss in very small groups. The game is not selling becouse old fans don't whant to play it the way it is. And there is not to many new ones. I know that the game needs to be changed not. It need more fans. I think that FFG made a mistake that the did not released a Beginners Box, next was the small amount of fluff in the core set and many faiths  & magic missed. The Guides did not heal this situation, then was the lack of dice and big Christmas sale when they were selling out for half of the price WFRP 3e (the same was with WFRP 2e before they closed it down and repleaced with a new edition). The future of WFRP 3e looks really dark and the silience from the publisher makes it even worst. This situation makes people nervous becouse we all would like to know what FFG is planing.

I hope to see any news about the future of WFRP in the near future.

Please FFG make a great game out of WFRP becouse this setting is worth it.

Cheers

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Beren Eoath said:

I think that SW RPGs is showing FFG the new way of doing RPGs. It looks like they have learned form they mistakes (mostly from WFRP 3e) and now going in the right direction. EotE is doing well, and the Begginers Game was a great way to introduce players to the new product. I hope that FFG will do the same for WFRP.

In WFRP there are to many Taletns (when players will use max 3 of them), to many Action cards and to many tokens. There's to many pieces that are really not needed for a good RPG. The problem is not only in numer of pieces but also in storege of them, and that they are not cheap in production. A book is much easier to make and can be done at one pleace wich lowers the costs. Many players from previous edition od WFRP did not bought this game becouse of the tokens, cards and a lot of boardgame stuff that they don't need to play a good session, they just need a book + diece + pen & paper. Many of them would be interested in WFRP if it would come back to more classical approach to the game. The sales of W40k rpgs and the interest of people in SW EotE  & Begginers Game show that people what to play RPGs but more old school. So maybe FFG should consider redesigning the game and making a new edition.

I'm sure that everyone of us would be more calm knowing what's FFG planing with WFRP.

Cheers

I think EotE informed rules could be released in book form, packaged up as self contained games that focus on areas outside the empire. Ideally compatible with v3 (v3 lite if necessary). A bretonian game, tilean, elvan, pirate, new world, lustria, cathay etc

That could appeal to players turned off by chits and fulfill the age old requests to expand content beyond the empire. J

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The idea of Daedalum is nice but still from my point of view it will never be made by FFG. The silience, lack of new products and annoucments does not promise nothing good. Even the Christmas sale was a bad omen, it reminded me of WFRP 2e Christmas sale that ended that edition. Last year I had hope that GenCon will give us any news about the future of WFRP but it did not, this year I'm not even hoping for it, I demand a clear anwser from FFG. If someone will be at GenCon then please ask about it. I don't think that we will see anything in the near future. I see WFRP 3e as an experiment that has to many mistakes. To many thing went wrong in this game and now FFG can't fix it. It would be easier for FFG to take some steps back to the drawing board and redesign the game. Not to make a 3.5 edition but to make 4e with more fluff, random dice and big, thick, hardcover books.

 Cheers

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Daedalum said:

I think EotE informed rules could be released in book form, packaged up as self contained games that focus on areas outside the empire. Ideally compatible with v3 (v3 lite if necessary). A bretonian game, tilean, elvan, pirate, new world, lustria, cathay etc

That could appeal to players turned off by chits and fulfill the age old requests to expand content beyond the empire. J

I am not sure I understand what you say, but sadly EotE is far from compatible with Warhammer 3. Not that they are two worlds appart, but still many things inherent to the setting would need to be addapted /fleshed out; just to mention some, creature stats and spells, this two are a huge amount of work.

Cheers,

Yepes

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Just listened to two FFG RPG writer/editor/producers on D6G podcast. Although they had positive things to say about v3, it was all in past tense and they clearly stated that Starwars IP is their current focus. (not saying other IPs aren't but pretty clear). J little's blog post that have mentioned v3 also tend to past tense. I think the problematic aspects of v3 have put it in the past. I see the release of the new format of pod a positive sign but also think it will be quite some time before FFG reproach wfrp in any large manner. 

Would love to be surprised though.

regarding my EotE remark, I've not read the rules but imagine it offers some solutions to v3 bits glut.

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Daedalum said:

regarding my EotE remark, I've not read the rules but imagine it offers some solutions to v3 bits glut.

Oh definitely it does!

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Daedalum said:

Just listened to two FFG RPG writer/editor/producers on D6G podcast. Although they had positive things to say about v3, it was all in past tense and they clearly stated that Starwars IP is their current focus. (not saying other IPs aren't but pretty clear). J little's blog post that have mentioned v3 also tend to past tense. I think the problematic aspects of v3 have put it in the past. I see the release of the new format of pod a positive sign but also think it will be quite some time before FFG reproach wfrp in any large manner. 

Would love to be surprised though.

I think the earliest we would see anything would be after SW:EoE has come out as well as a number of supporting products. More likely nothing will be done until after the final part of the Star Wars trilogy is produced in 2015, and by then the GW license will be up for renewell. Make of that what you will.

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All those are sad news for WFRP 3e. Looks like the game is pushed away and will not have any support. I was looking to the previuos editions and I see one bg problem of 3e - lack of fluff. WFRP 3e has a good mechanic (but without cards and tokens it would be a lot better) but it has no fluff, no importent information dor the GM & players alike. The 2e was so much supported, all books had a lot of information about cities, festivals, games, enemies, sects, minor gods, a lot of everything and what 3e has? WFRP 3e has nothing of that! No big cities maps, no knowledge about minor gods and sects, nothing about supestitions, just no fluff and no radom tables so You can roll yourself something. In previus editions we could make a random character, NPC, enemies, just all what You would need to make a fast session without to much work from the GM. I know that it is maybe to soon after the WFRP 2e to publish the smae amterial but those book are out of print. So amybe it time to say it loud - WFRP 3e was nice but it;s time has come. FFG wake up!!! What your doing to WFRP?!?

WFRP 3e is to much boardgame. really after so much time I spended playing it (from the release of the core set) I can tell that the game is like a boardgame where fluff does not matter becouse You have all things on cards. You know this is like Descent but with more option to build a character, even the stad-up are like figures.RPG are made to play with fluff and a lot of information that the GM can use to create sessions here we don't have it.

For me this game is playable up to Rank 3 above the are rules that look like they were made becouse they must do something. That how I feel about skill mastery - so designers sit down around tabel and thinked of what we can do to play above rank 3 and someone said ok lets make a 4 square in each skill and we will call it skill mastery. The Talents that have slots are also not so good. Becouse when I play a character that has  for example Tactic and Reputation and on next carrer I will have Tactic and Focus - what should I doo with my Reputation Talents? This makes some Talents playable only on some careers and after advacien on next career  they are useless. So why I should buy to many Talents? Why they dont wor all the time  not only socketed that would make sense to buy them. And the recharge on cards like dodge/parry/block is wierd, why can't I use it all the time? WFRP has to many small mistakes that make the game hard t o play not only on high ranks but also outside of your own home.

Sorry but after so many years I must say that. When it was released I was very enthusiastic not I'm not. Sometimes I think that FFG made the core set not thinking about expansions and how problematic it will be when You need to reprint some cards in each expansion. That this will make the game expensive and that many WFRP wil turn away form it. The future of 3e does not look bright but lets hope the future of WFRP has some light of hope for the setting.

Cheers

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You don't need fluff to play an RPG. You only need imagination. When WFRP1st edition was out, and all we had was the Enemy Within campaign, we had just enough fluff to play. Today we have a 1000 times that and don't need it.

You want to create a town? Pick up a german town name, say Scharzburg. You want an NPC, do you really need Stat Block for it? Just give it a few dices for what the NPC will be used for.

Players and GMs are making RPGs too complex. An RPG is about imagination, not books after books of fluff or rules. I doubt FFG is going to release many books of fluff for EotE. Why would they, it's a big Star Wars universe with so much available already… it reminds me of another universe, ah yes the Old World.

All what we need are scenarios. FFG has produced many scenarios in all those supplements, and if a playing group goes through all of those, that group should have enough experience to create their own or to play without pre-written scenarios.

It is tiring to be hearing about what WFRP3 needs, the death of WFRP3, how FFG screwed up WFRP3 because there are bits and so on. This board has become a downer. The game is playble, fun to play, easy to pick up for new GMs and new players. It's a game! Just a game! and a good one. It has flaws, what game doesnt? FFG did their best, they did their parts, let now WFRP3 rest and be the mature product it is, with small but continous support as it should be. 

If a 4e edition comes out one day, wonderful, one more game to the serie, if it doesn't we have enough of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd to enjoy the Old World. Let's stop bitching and continue playing.

 

 

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I agre, it's all imagination - that's all the RPGs are about. But why then You need cards & tokens in 3e? Fluff is needed, no game exists without fluff. If You use it or not it's your choise but stil something that should be in the game.  And remamber not everyone has 1e & 2e books, those are out of print and as I looked last time even no longer avaliable legaly as a pdf.  So fluff, fluff, fluff plus a good mechanics - thath the recipe for a good RPG. And WFRP shuld be a good RPG. The 3e has its special feeling but it has no fluff, you need to have 2e books to know more about the Empire and that is not ok. I'm not ok withy that.

If there ever will be a WFRP 4e, then I hope that it will not make the same mistakes as the 1e, 2e, & 3e where making. One thing I'm sure about - I will buy it!

But in one thing I agre have fun and play the game, that all You can do.

Cheers

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Ceodryn said:

You don't need fluff to play an RPG. You only need imagination. When WFRP1st edition was out, and all we had was the Enemy Within campaign, we had just enough fluff to play. Today we have a 1000 times that and don't need it.

Have to agree with Ceoydrn here. The little fluff published in v3 has been lite. When I want fluff for inspiration, I turn first to v2 Sigmar's Heirs, offered by FFG at a very reasonable download price, btw. 

It is tiring to be hearing about what WFRP3 needs, the death of WFRP3, how FFG screwed up WFRP3 because there are bits and so on. This board has become a downer. The game is playble, fun to play, easy to pick up for new GMs and new players. It's a game! Just a game! and a good one. It has flaws, what game doesnt? FFG did their best, they did their parts, let now WFRP3 rest and be the mature product it is, with small but continous support as it should be. 

Amen Brother. I'm tired of hearing about it.

If a 4e edition comes out one day, wonderful, one more game to the serie, if it doesn't we have enough of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd to enjoy the Old World. Let's stop bitching and continue playing.

Sigmar be praised! My thoughts exactly.

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James Sparrow said:

Herr Arnulfe said:…

I still don't know whether the success of the W40K lines is down to its more traditional system or the higher fire-power of the setting.

I ran WFRP 2e and we played for ages. they loved it.
I switched to 3e and the group didn't get on with the mass of cards and tokens.
I now run Balck Crusade and they love it.

I recently ran the Star Wars beginner set and they liked that. They thought it good, and lacking in their words 'the pile fiddly bits' of WFRP 3e.

Ok, we are are all old gamers and used to the traditional style, but even I found as a GM 3e to be too overloaded with bits and pieces.

I am dying to run the new Eneamy Within, but would need to redo half ther rules and bits to get the group to go for it.

I can't wait for a slimmed down Star Wars like 4th edition that gets around the mass of bits.

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I would actually say that it's likely that WFRP3 will be getting the SW:EoE treatment at some time in the future.

Will it be the same system exactly? Likely not. There are aspects of the Warhammer universe that don't translate well to Star Wars and vice versa.

However, there are many basic system elements that are better in my opinion, such as the new attribute/skill dice pools. I also like not having so many cards on the table.

It's too visible and valuable a property to simply let die on the vine.

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Well until then, v3 is actually the easiest Rpg FFG can support, as career pods etc are pretty easy to get done and get out the door vs tradiditonal format. Either way I'm happy, though I agree that it could be worth FFG try a new (old) tack to appeal to new (old) players :)

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Is there any news about an hypotetical WFRP4?

 

The Warhammer Fantasy world currently remains a small, spinning cloud of debris.

 

If they ever get around to fixing that, it'll be Step 1 to a new version of Roleplay.

Noelyuk likes this

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ZWEIHÄNDER is a very good game.

Also we (Locanda delle due Lune) are developing a fan version of the game (in Italian), because fans are still numerous.

​But... an official version...  would be great

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Thank you all for the kind words regarding ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG!

 

Given FFG and Games Workshop's reduced interest and news regarding the Old World, I plan to begin cross-posting to this forum, to raise awareness of the ZWEIHÄNDER retroclone product.

Oh you are already doing it enough don't worry...

Noelyuk likes this

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