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Sothis2

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I can't get the search function to work, so I'm sure you guys have already discussed this.  But what do you all do about Bank Loans?  It seems to me like they're a horrible, horrible idea that could almost never be worth it.  Our group has always used the alternate rule that Bank Loans do not exist.  Instead, $1 appears on the Bank every upkeep phase, and they can be acquired just like clues.

Anyone use Bank Loans the way they're written?  If so, why?  I am missing something that makes them worthwhile?

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Sothis said:

I can't get the search function to work, so I'm sure you guys have already discussed this.  But what do you all do about Bank Loans?  It seems to me like they're a horrible, horrible idea that could almost never be worth it.  Our group has always used the alternate rule that Bank Loans do not exist.  Instead, $1 appears on the Bank every upkeep phase, and they can be acquired just like clues.

Anyone use Bank Loans the way they're written?  If so, why?  I am missing something that makes them worthwhile?

 

Bank Loans are pretty crappy. If you aren't playing "for points" (and indeed, usually I am not), then you can take out a loan, give away all your stuff, and then wait for the loan to run out. You end up wasting a few turns and running around with a naked character for a few turns to get 9 or 10 bucks for the cause. This is literally the only way in which bank loans are in any way worth taking. And even then, it's usually just better to go to the Newspaper and try to get a retainer out of the encounters. Some people even go into paroxisms about how it is somehow cheating to take out a loan you have no intention of paying back and using the money to fund the expeditions of your friends who are trying to save the world. I have never understood this position.

 

I will say that bank loans should probably work differently. The time scale of the game seems like it's way too short to actually worry about interest payments. The loans themselves should probably be hard to get and then simply give you a one-time pile of cash with no strings attached. Th loan card itself should just indicate that you can't get another one. That would require rewriting the bank encounters though, so it's not going to happen.

 

-Frank

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You can always take a Bank Loan for Jenny Barnes,at least it won't rob her of her items.

I want to say I've never taken a Bank Loan in my games, but there a niggling feeling in the back of my mind like I might've once taken a BL for Jenny.

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You're right, usually they aren't helpful.  However,  it can be a lifesaver if you draw the "mad bomber" (DH) rumor, which makes you discard some cash to end it.  It's not bad for Jenny or Daryll (beginning), or anybody who happens to have a retainer and needs the extra cash *now*.     A decent strategy for Amanda Sharpe is to take out a bank loan first turn, go buy a skill at Admin, then give her stuff away and default on it.  

However, I wouldn't play with your optional rule,   it makes the game significantly easier.  Basically a 'free' $20 or so over the course of the game.

 

EDIT:  Oh, although I wanted to mention that they mirror real-life loans remarkably well, for a dice-based board game.  It amounts to a roughly 5% interest rate on the principal.

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haha, I like how everyone has figured out how to take a BL and then give away all their stuff.  This seems like a silly exploit to me; I'd rather change the rules to something that makes more sense.  And awp, I don't see how my version makes things easier on the investigators compared to your suggestion, and at least it doesn't strike me as silly.  ;D

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Heh...  Clearly you guys don't manage the bank loan exploit well ;') the correct way to do it without wasting turns Is have two players take out loans.  Then have them both go shopping in the same location.  At the end of the turn, transfer all your items and cash to the other character (that way at least one of your characters will be having a 50/50 chance of defaulting each turn.  Of course, if you don't want to wait for two players to default, you could just take out one bank loan while both characters are shopping.  And no, personally, I rarely use this exploit ;') which isn't to say I never do.  I also like bank loans for Lola (buy a second skill).

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Sothis said:

haha, I like how everyone has figured out how to take a BL and then give away all their stuff.  This seems like a silly exploit to me; I'd rather change the rules to something that makes more sense.  And awp, I don't see how my version makes things easier on the investigators compared to your suggestion, and at least it doesn't strike me as silly.  ;D

It's not silly, just think of it as Amanda Sharpe declaring Bankrupcy, which is essentially the case.   Also, my way is within' the RAW, and banks don't give away free money.    Besides, at least in our gaming group the bank loan expoit is rarely attempted, as we play for score.  Point is, I wasn't really *suggesting* that you do it, merely pointing out what some have done with bank loans.     What I suggest you do about it is to play the game normally, and just not take out bank loans,  that's what we do. 

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What awp is saying, Sothis, is that bank loans are only useful in very narrow circumstances, and generally the bank is nothing.  If money appears there every turn, however, it's suddenly a much cooler destination, and makes the game easier by giving people money with no strings attached. 

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If one considers that the Spirit of the Game is not to defraud the Financial Insititutions of the day, then one would avoid the bank exploit.

 

However, if one is somewhat unscrupulous, the exploit is indeed open to expoitation! gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

In the end, the saying Time is Money is true, but the GOO may welcome the time gained by an unlucky exploiter.

 

 

 

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I understand what you guys are saying; I didn't mean to sound critical.  Your method of using BLs is probably the only way it would ever make sense to bother getting one.  But you can also think of the $1 per turn method as interest gained or something like that.  It doesn't really matter if it works well.

I suggest you try that route once or twice.  It doesn't play much of a role, but can be nice to grab $5 or so after building for a while.  But it still takes a turn to get it, so it's doesn't make the game easier as far as I can tell.  The bonus is about the same as the hassle to get $10 with your method, but removes the BL issue entirely.  Game mechanics that are pointless and/or silly just peeve me.  :D

Thanks for the responses guys!

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Oxybeles said:

If one considers that the Spirit of the Game is not to defraud the Financial Insititutions of the day, then one would avoid the bank exploit.

 

Wait. What?

 

In this game you wander onto the Whately Farm, rummage through their stuff while they aren't there, and then slink off into the night. They go to dead bodies in th Kingsport Graveyard and take valuables out of the pockets. Investigators in Arkham Horror have no respect for private property at all. They are trying to save the world, and minor inconveniences like "felonies" don't even warrant a second thought.

 

If they fail, Arkham is destroyed and any outstanding bad credit they have is literally the least of their concerns. If they succeed, then there will be a tomorrow and another tomorrow after that. And there will be plenty of tim to sort out their credit rating when the world keeps spinning and life goes on. Indeed, having any compunction whatsoever about defrauding financial institutions in the Arkham Horror storyline is completely unbelievable.

 

-Frank

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Beeing at work I do not remember what's written on the board itself but wouldn't it be quite an easy fix for the creators to print new bank-loan cards with different texts if the community demands it. Something that give a short benefit but cannot be avoided by some easy exploit.

Maybe we want to trasnform this thread into:

"What would you like the bank-loan card to say instead of the current state"

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awp832 said:

A decent strategy for Amanda Sharpe is to take out a bank loan first turn, go buy a skill at Admin, then give her stuff away and default on it.

As an optional rule, it could forbidden for an investigator with a loan to trade with other players ? This would prevent, like in ordinary life, to organise an insolvency.

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As an optional rule, it could forbidden for an investigator with a loan to trade with other players ? This would prevent, like in ordinary life, to organise an insolvency.

 

That's what I would make it.

Yay forums

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Avi_dreader said:

Heh...  Clearly you guys don't manage the bank loan exploit well ;') the correct way to do it without wasting turns Is have two players take out loans.  Then have them both go shopping in the same location.  At the end of the turn, transfer all your items and cash to the other character (that way at least one of your characters will be having a 50/50 chance of defaulting each turn.  Of course, if you don't want to wait for two players to default, you could just take out one bank loan while both characters are shopping.  And no, personally, I rarely use this exploit ;') which isn't to say I never do.  I also like bank loans for Lola (buy a second skill).

If you play your cards right (or the cards don't screw you over completely) you can buy TWO extra skills with Lola and then be really rolling in the skills.

The fact she starts with the Derringer actually makes it seem like this is what the designers planned, because you don't even need to give that away to keep it once you default.

One game with Lola, I started with the unique item that you also can't lose unless you allow it.  I bought to skills and ran around with two one-handed weapons on a killing spree.

Awesome.

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OMG once I got Lola who started with a Safety Deposit key. Since she's next to the Bank, I just sent her over to use the key next round. Well her encounter was an offer to take out a loan for 12 dollars instead of 10. Since this would be just enough for her to buy a skill and pay off the loan, I emphatically said, YES!

Despite her great skills, she botched up the roll to seal the final gate, and we got a gate burst. Yog awoke, and while Lola had the special Fight and Will skills where 4s count as successes, and she had more gates than the others, Yog still prevailed—and now the event horizon of timespace has a slight Lola-colored stain on it.

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Anyone have the character arrested if they default? Usually if we're strapped we'll have the deputy take the loan then if they default they lose their position on corruption charges.

And what do people do about defaulting in OWs where the bank can't reposses your stuff? There should be repo men or something that track you down. Or mafia hitmen if they happen to own the bank. Gives the Riots an extra use at least. 

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See, that sounds like a pretty good idea too.  If you don't pay on the loan, you become Wanted.  You might have to make the loan worth less than $10 (going to jail for a turn is worth a free $10 I'd say).  But otherwise that would make much more sense and be more fun than they way BL works now.

Yay forums indeed!

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No, I was kind of joking. Wanted is not a very threatening status. If you get pushed out into the street as the result of an Arkham encounter, you have to pass a Sneak -2 check or be arrested, and you dicard Wanted when you're arrested.

In other words, you'd have to be wanted in addition to some other ill effect. But currently, the "no trade" rule is the one I like the most.

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Yeah, after looking at Wanted again I saw that it's not very bad.  You're not very likely to be arrested.  It's still a cool idea though that makes a lot of sense.

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