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mouthymerc

What will Age of Rebellion be like?

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Stormtroopers are just soldiers. Emperor's Hands come in too many varieties to codify into one career or specialization. It is more of a title. Maybe an Imperial Inquisitor talent tree if they are going to put in anything specifically Imperial to be played.

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mouthymerc said:

Stormtroopers are just soldiers. Emperor's Hands come in too many varieties to codify into one career or specialization. It is more of a title. Maybe an Imperial Inquisitor talent tree if they are going to put in anything specifically Imperial to be played.

 

  • "Stormtroopers are just soliders": Eh, maybe.  But there's a a whole other thread about them discussing various points of view about how they're used and how they differ from regular soliders, and I think rightly so.  Maybe we'd see an ST tree in a supplement.
  • "Emporer's Hands come in too many varieties to codify": Solid disagreement with you here.  There's a wide variety of backgrounds, but none of those backgrounds would do a sufficient job training the Hands in the use of the force.  I would think that a universal spec could easily envelop the skills and force abilities that a Hand should be trained in without forcing the character into 2 or three additional specs to make it work.
  • Imperial Inquisitor:  Another perfect example that would work well as a faction-specific universal spec.

Maybe revisiting the WEG's rebel Ordnance Procurer character template would provide an appropriate rebel-specific universal spec.  Essentially, this was a character that, how do you say?, redistributes? militiary materiel for the benefit of the rebel alliance.  Little reason for there to be an Imperial version.

It's also reasonable (perhaps more reaosnable) to expect these universal specs to be in supplements for AoR, instead of in the core product.

-WJL

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mouthymerc said:

Stormtroopers are just soldiers. Emperor's Hands come in too many varieties to codify into one career or specialization. It is more of a title. Maybe an Imperial Inquisitor talent tree if they are going to put in anything specifically Imperial to be played.

Well, maybe a general-purpose "dark side Force-user" could work in terms of an Emperor's Hand, as they all have that theme in common.  I know the OCR Dark Side Sourcebook had an "Emperor's Hand" prestige class (heck, the OCR/RCR had a prestige class for almost everything), but I also have to wonder just how much of the variety amongst the Emperor's Hands was due ther backgrounds with a specialization to give them a "sneaky Force-user" feel.  Though I doubt we'd see much more in the way of Force Specializations, at least nothing quite as focused as an Emperor's Hand or Inquisitor until Force & Destiny.

Although, an Emperor's Hand type character could be built already using Bounty Hunter/Assassin and F/S Exile, so there is that.

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LethalDose said:

  • "Stormtroopers are just soliders": Eh, maybe.  But there's a a whole other thread about them discussing various points of view about how they're used and how they differ from regular soliders, and I think rightly so.  Maybe we'd see an ST tree in a supplement.

Nothing there that can't be achieved using a generic template for soldiers and their specs. At best there may be some variance based on race if they are of clone stock, but otherwise they are well trained soldiers. what do you see in a ST tree that might not be there in a soldier spec tree?

LethalDose said:

  • "Emporer's Hands come in too many varieties to codify": Solid disagreement with you here.  There's a wide variety of backgrounds, but none of those backgrounds would do a sufficient job training the Hands in the use of the force.  I would think that a universal spec could easily envelop the skills and force abilities that a Hand should be trained in without forcing the character into 2 or three additional specs to make it work.

While some delve into the Force, more precisly various traditions, some are nothing more than the soldiers or pilots or spies they always were with maybe a slight dip into the Force. Nothing that can't be done using a generic specialization like the Force Exile one. I imagine we will see further Force development in the Age of Rebellion that may allow for these types of characters. Emperor's Hands vary from assassins, scientists, warriors, pilots and more.

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mouthymerc said:

While some delve into the Force, more precisly various traditions, some are nothing more than the soldiers or pilots or spies they always were with maybe a slight dip into the Force. 

Yeah, I think we've just got different opinions on this.  I see them more like the wookieepdia article I linked above lists them, and I think you percieve them more like they were portrayed in the Darkside Sourcebook.  And thats fine.

I would say that some Hands, like Mara Jade, went deeply into the universal spec, while others, which  you describe as "nothing more than the soldiers or pilots or spies they always were with maybe a slight dip into the Force" would not go very deep into the universal spec, but would still pick it up.

I think you would say that Hands simply don't need a universal spec because they can be appropriate represented with existing specs.

That's cool.  We'll just have to wait and see.

-WJL

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LethalDose said:

 

I think you would say that Hands simply don't need a universal spec because they can be appropriate represented with existing specs.

 

 

Exactly. Mara Jade, in that Darkside book, was mostly just a spy with sneak attack dice and Force powers. Don't need a spec for that, just access to Force powers through a generic Force spec like Force Exile combined with a spy or assassin spec. others, like Maarek Stele, were more pilot with just a spattering of Force ability.  Maybe there will be a spec Imperial Force Sensitive or just a Force Sensitive generic spec for either side, as you say we will have to wait and see.

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Enough about nit-pciking a really small part of this question.  I think the following are the big things I want to see in the AoR system:

Expanded Command and Leadership

Rules for PCs commanding soliders in groups from the size from fireteams (2-4 troopers) to companies (~ 100-200 men), allowing full PC groups to run large battles.  Similarly, PCs should be able to run starfighter squadrons or capital shipts in small to medium conflicts, or play important command roles in larger conflicts.  This could simply rules on how to direct groups of minions, or how groups of minions can be used to enchance a PC's or Nemesis' rolls.  Really, I think that there should be rules for improving your unit (ground or space) akin to character development, in other words, a character's unit should be another aspect of that player (see Rank Advancement below)

Capital Ship Rules and Expanded Starship Combat

This was explicitly listed in what was discussed at the In-Flight report at the announcement.  Pretty much subsumed in waht was stated above.  But I'd like to FINALLY get a ruleset for a Star Wars RPG that makes this $hit work on scales that we see in the movies.  From the Falcon's escape from the Death Star to the Battle of Endor.  I don't think one dedicated SWRPG system has provided a way to let the players feel like Luke at Yavin or Lando at Endor, much to the detriment of those games.

Special Operations and Resource Combat

You can do this in any setting, really, buy I'd like to emphasis placed on it in the AoR system.  Rules governing the effects of sabotage and supply line disruption in the abstract narrative setting that we have currently.  I want the players to be able to decide how to tackle an enemy, instead of the GM saying "Your CO says you have to do X to give us a chance to win" and having these rules would be part of such a system to d

Rank Advancement and Guidelines

Similar to the way Obligation can be used as a resource in some cases, I'd like to see a way to spend XP to advance rank and gain some benefits, like increasing the size of your unit that you can command, resources (weapons, armor, gear) available to your unit. Information about rank and command structure in various branches of the Imperial and Rebellion military forces should used to "fluff" and support this material.

I think those are my big ones.  Yeah, get new careers and crap in there, but stuff like that and stack blocks are just gravy, the mechanics are the real meat of the system.

-WJL

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LethalDose said:

Capital Ship Rules and Expanded Starship Combat

This was explicitly listed in what was discussed at the In-Flight report at the announcement.  Pretty much subsumed in waht was stated above.  But I'd like to FINALLY get a ruleset for a Star Wars RPG that makes this $hit work on scales that we see in the movies.  From the Falcon's escape from the Death Star to the Battle of Endor.  I don't think one dedicated SWRPG system has provided a way to let the players feel like Luke at Yavin or Lando at Endor, much to the detriment of those games.

This. 

THIS.

THIS.

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LethalDose said:

Rank Advancement and Guidelines

Similar to the way Obligation can be used as a resource in some cases, I'd like to see a way to spend XP to advance rank and gain some benefits, like increasing the size of your unit that you can command, resources (weapons, armor, gear) available to your unit. Information about rank and command structure in various branches of the Imperial and Rebellion military forces should used to "fluff" and support this material.

I think those are my big ones.  Yeah, get new careers and crap in there, but stuff like that and stack blocks are just gravy, the mechanics are the real meat of the system.

-WJL

Nice ideas here.

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I do not enjoy playing in 'classic' rebel vs imp games. However in the spirit of the thread... Rebellion Era Imperial PCs, attached to Thrawn's forces during his campaign In The Unknown Regions. I'm just saying :)

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Most of my games are during the Dark Times and Post-Battle of Yavin. What I would like to see in AoE is the Rebel SpecForce trooper talent trees for Pathfinders, UCS, SpaceOps, Rangers, Infiltrators, HWS, Scroungers, etc.

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I think it would be best, albeit more expensive, to have two separate books: One for Rebel PCs, and one for Imperial PCs.

Using the 40k RPG line as reference, something like a Black Crusade book for Imperial campaigns would be perfect.

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 I hope they introduce a third scale between starships and character (I doubt its coming for the final EotE release, despite good arguments for it).

 I see no reason not to add a Vehicle scale between Starship and Character if that is somethin you want, I am not sure whether it should be a midpoint of five to one or closer to the Starship scale. For myself, I think I will stick with just the two, partially for ease of play but also because I don't think it is really needed.

 

E

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Enough about nit-pciking a really small part of this question.  I think the following are the big things I want to see in the AoR system:

Expanded Command and Leadership

Rules for PCs commanding soliders in groups from the size from fireteams (2-4 troopers) to companies (~ 100-200 men), allowing full PC groups to run large battles.  Similarly, PCs should be able to run starfighter squadrons or capital shipts in small to medium conflicts, or play important command roles in larger conflicts.  This could simply rules on how to direct groups of minions, or how groups of minions can be used to enchance a PC's or Nemesis' rolls.  Really, I think that there should be rules for improving your unit (ground or space) akin to character development, in other words, a character's unit should be another aspect of that player (see Rank Advancement below)

 

I really think unit combat will not be part of the gameplay for "Age of Rebellion", since Star Wars usually focus on the characters own adventures and the narrative setting around that. Even in Return of the Jedi, when Han had a whole squad of troopers and an army of Ewoks to help him take down the shield generator on Endor, the story was centered on Han, Chewie, Leia, R2 and C-3PO.

Squad combat reminds me more of games like Mordheim then Star Wars....

Same logic would apply to rules for capital ship combat....

 

Special ops and Ressource Combat :

The idea is pretty neat, but I guess the core problem is that it depends on your GM style of mastering. In my gaming group, after each game I give a report of progress in the sector so that the players know what has transpired during their mission ; they then choose what they will do, where they will strike to advance the Alliance's mission in this sector. I believe the more rules there are, the less freedom you have.

Races :

In EotE, there are six races (if you remove humans and droids), I think FFG will probably add 6 more races in AoR and in FaD. I also think they'll choose iconic races bound to those time periods... For Age of Rebellion, like previously stated, I'd go with Mon Calamari and Sulustans. For Force and Destiny, I'd bet Togruta, Nautolans, Kel Dor.

 

It's rather hard to find good iconic races for the Empire... you could think of Chagrian or Kubaz, but they aren't really loved by the fans... For FaD, i'd probably vote for Zabrak with Darth Maul and Savage Opress.

What other races you think would fit those themes ???

Classes :

I also believe they will keep their 6 count for classes in AoR and FaD ; there will probably be another universal specialization like FSE. This is my idea of classes/specs for Age of Rebellion.

- Officer : Admiral (mix of pilot and leadership talents) ; General (mix of combat and leadership talents) ; Tactician (mix of knowledges and defensives talents).

- Crewman : Pilot ; Mechanic ; Space commando

- Science officer : Doctor ; Engineer ; Comscan (mix of Fringer, Scholar and Slicer talent trees)

 

- Specops : Infiltration (mix of stealth and combat talents) ; Sabotage (mix of slicing and demolition talents) ; Support (mix of medic, repair and defensive talents)

- Diplomat : Scholar, Politico and Traders talent trees would fit well with this one.

 

- Trooper : Urban warfare ; Jungle Guerilla ; Frontline assault

 

As for the universal spec, I'd add Dark Side Adept (think Mara Jade, the Emperor's Hand) with Force Power : Injury and Force Power : Improve Characteristics... And in Force and Destiny, the universal spec could be Jedi Hunter, with jedi tracking and force resisting talents.

 

What do you guys think ???

Edited by JP_JP

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Special Operations and Resource Combat

You can do this in any setting, really, buy I'd like to emphasis placed on it in the AoR system.  Rules governing the effects of sabotage and supply line disruption in the abstract narrative setting that we have currently.  I want the players to be able to decide how to tackle an enemy, instead of the GM saying "Your CO says you have to do X to give us a chance to win" and having these rules would be part of such a system to d

 

Currently I plan to work on a new game system that GMs can plug into their campaigns per rulebook. For EotE I'm at a early planning stage for a trading module, if they don't use the idea above for AoR then this my project for when that book is out :)

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As for the universal spec, I'd add Dark Side Adept

 

 

 

 

More likely to be Force Adept than Darkside Adept. With a Force Heal, Force Resist or Defense (increase Soak/Defense or enemies Force power cost increase when the target), maybe a dedicated Force Choke.

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As the title says, I was wondering what people's thoughts were on what the Age of Rebellion book will include. Obviously a more focused look at the Rebels and Imperials including ships and equipment, but what else?

1. What races will make it in? Humans, for sure. Bothans, twi'leks, again? Mon Calamari? Duros?

2. What careers? Soldiers, but with what kind of specializations? Pilots? Maybe playable Imperial characters? Imperial Inquisitors or Emperor's Hands?

3. More rules on Force use? New specializations? Force Adept? The above Imperial characters?

4. Maybe rules on running groups utilizing the minion rules to show large scale combats? Players could have minion groups under their control. this would include on the ground and in space.

Any thoughts?

This made me think of something I had not though of yet... how much REPEAT races are we going to have since these books are meant to be stand-alone (as well as working together). Humans are going to be listed for sure in each book. What a waste of space.

 

What I am really interested in seeing is if there is going to be some new mechanic in each. They kind of word the "Obligation" mechanic like it is an "Edge" thing. I am wonder if both of the other books will have something similar but works with the Obligation mechanic overall. Like a "Responsiblity" instead of Obligation for soldiers?

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As the title says, I was wondering what people's thoughts were on what the Age of Rebellion book will include. Obviously a more focused look at the Rebels and Imperials including ships and equipment, but what else?

1. What races will make it in? Humans, for sure. Bothans, twi'leks, again? Mon Calamari? Duros?

2. What careers? Soldiers, but with what kind of specializations? Pilots? Maybe playable Imperial characters? Imperial Inquisitors or Emperor's Hands?

3. More rules on Force use? New specializations? Force Adept? The above Imperial characters?

4. Maybe rules on running groups utilizing the minion rules to show large scale combats? Players could have minion groups under their control. this would include on the ground and in space.

Any thoughts?

This made me think of something I had not though of yet... how much REPEAT races are we going to have since these books are meant to be stand-alone (as well as working together). Humans are going to be listed for sure in each book. What a waste of space.

 

What I am really interested in seeing is if there is going to be some new mechanic in each. They kind of word the "Obligation" mechanic like it is an "Edge" thing. I am wonder if both of the other books will have something similar but works with the Obligation mechanic overall. Like a "Responsiblity" instead of Obligation for soldiers?

 

I'd like to see a unique mechanic in each book too. And I do suspect there will be. I kind of wonder if each book gets less and less "gray".

You start out with Edge of the Empire, where you have Bounty Hunters and Hired Guns and Smugglers and all that. Basically people way outside the law who might be a little shifty, and are more likely to rub shoulders with the Hutt Cartel than the Rebel Alliance or Empire.

So I wonder ... will Age of Rebellion move away from gray morality to the war? It has to, doesn't it? Rebels vs. Imperials.

And then you have Force and Destiny, which would be even more black and white, i.e., Light Side vs. Dark Side.

So I wonder if instead of Obligation, there will be an Allegiance system or something similar. You pick a side and this has drawbacks and benefits. Maybe within each there are different factions. Like you might be with the military, or the government. I'm not sure.

Or there could be a Squadron mechanic, where your group chooses a type of "team" that they are, a role they fulfill as a group within the Rebel Alliance.

I think you're on the right track, that Obligation is unique to Edge of the Empire. I'm very interested to see what the other books have.

...

As an aside, I hope Force and Destiny incorporates the seven lightsaber forms (!).

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So I wonder ... will Age of Rebellion move away from gray morality to the war? It has to, doesn't it? Rebels vs. Imperials.

And then you have Force and Destiny, which would be even more black and white, i.e., Light Side vs. Dark Side.

 

Perhaps, though I hope they do not just walk over the idea of the Gray Jedi. This is something talked a lot about in the Old Republic stuff, but really... the Prequel Trilogy really kind of eludes to it.

 

The Chosen one was supposed to bring balance... and guess what... he did. The galaxy had been too long dominated by the lightside. It seems the Jedi just narrow-mindedly interpret this. This gives quite a different concept on what Yoda means at end of Ep3 when he says "Failed, I have". To me this means, HE failed as the Jedi council leader. They did not look at the dark side ever, ignored it... and it overwhelmed them.

 

This theme is further looked to in the EU novels. Luke is not quite as black and white as the old order was. Revan from the EU (quite possibly the most power Jedi of all time) though both orders, Jedi and Sith were narrow and idiots.

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So I wonder ... will Age of Rebellion move away from gray morality to the war? It has to, doesn't it? Rebels vs. Imperials.

I don't think Disney will be wanting to get in to a commentary on the War on Terror, so I doubt people will be seeing Imperial special forces doing a Zero Dark Thirty style raid to assassinate the mastermind of Rebel suicide bombings any time soon.

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So I wonder ... will Age of Rebellion move away from gray morality to the war? It has to, doesn't it? Rebels vs. Imperials.

I don't think Disney will be wanting to get in to a commentary on the War on Terror, so I doubt people will be seeing Imperial special forces doing a Zero Dark Thirty style raid to assassinate the mastermind of Rebel suicide bombings any time soon.

 

What? I was talking about the Rebellion. You know, the war between the Rebel Alliance and the Empire? The one ... in Star Wars? And I said move AWAY from gray morality TO the war. As in, the good guys vs. the bad guys.

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What? I was talking about the Rebellion. You know, the war between the Rebel Alliance and the Empire? The one ... in Star Wars? And I said move AWAY from gray morality TO the war. As in, the good guys vs. the bad guys.

I think I was agreeing. I don't think Disney will be wanting to put out stuff that is either 'What is awesome about Nazis/The Empire' or 'Ways in which the Rebel Alliance who we just paid $4 billion for the rights to is like Al Qeada', so 'nuanced'/revisionist takes on Star Wars may not be on the table.

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I was actually suggesting that Edge of the Empire is all about gray morality, and the two upcoming supplements will be steadily more polarizing in terms of good and evil. I don't think this has anything to do with Disney, but rather a natural progression given the chosen themes of the upcoming core rulebooks (Age of Rebellion, Force and Destiny).

I actually kind of doubt Disney will have much influence over the content of future releases from Fantasy Flight Games. There's Disney, and then there's Lucasfilm, and then there's Fantasy Flight Games, you know? FFG seems to have a lot of creative power, and the wheels are already moving.

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Things I would like to see are:

 

Mass combat for ground/fleet.

Fighter Squads for the party.

Military Ranking and breakdown for both rebel and imperial command structure

Creating your own rebel cell.

More in depth combat rules - example, they default 2 difficulty for melee combat.  I'd like characters that are more combat savvy perhaps.

 

Things I expect

 

specializations such as Squad Leader, Commando, Spy,

reprints of the following races:  Humans, Droids, Wookies (too iconic to Star Wars not to put in) and Bothans

New Races:  Mon Calamari, Sullustan, Dresselian, and Duros.

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Things I would like to see are:

 

Mass combat for ground/fleet.

Fighter Squads for the party.

Military Ranking and breakdown for both rebel and imperial command structure

Creating your own rebel cell.

More in depth combat rules - example, they default 2 difficulty for melee combat.  I'd like characters that are more combat savvy perhaps.

 

 

I would like to see that as well. Mass battle rules would be cool that incorporate your characters in as well. Kind of like Hero characters in Warhammer Fantasy, 40k. In fact, rules that allow for table top mini gaming in the vain of 40k. Maybe as optional rules..... after all this is a role playing game.

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