Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Xenu's Paradox

Cards that don't look amazing but are

47 posts in this topic

I have to throw a shout-out to the Viper Probe Droid. It's perhaps slightly overcosted at 2 for a 1-health unit with a single Edge blast icon, but its ability is far more valuable than it may appear on first glance. We all know that Edge battles are the key to winning the game, which means that you need to be able to play units without emptying your hand; the delicate balance between cards in play and cards in hand is one of the most exciting elements of SWLCG. Every time you pull a Viper Probe Droid, you've effectively increased your hand size by one in a very limited fashion -- you can throw it away in an Edge battle or ditch it during your next draw phase to pull another card, but having it in your discard pile is effectively as good as having it in your hand, as you can play it just the same. In other words, you get the benefit of discarding it without losing literally anything at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice Thread Idea!

 

I'll nominate Ancient Monument.

It's easy to pass by at first glance (especially for new players), since it's a a play area enhancement that doesn't give you any resources, but it's ability to contribute a force icon to your side during the force struggle is pretty awesome. Even though it's only 1, non character enhancements are extremely safe at the moment (You'd need something like Tear this Ship apart, or Interrogation (while it's in hand)" to get rid of it.

The importance of the balance of the force, like hand size, cannot be understated - Especially if you are playing the Light Side. Having a permanent +1 bonus without having to commit a character, is good - especially for just 1 resource, AND the card provides 3 force icons for edge battles, which are another key to the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xenu's Paradox said:

 

I have to throw a shout-out to the Viper Probe Droid. It's perhaps slightly overcosted at 2 for a 1-health unit with a single Edge blast icon, but its ability is far more valuable than it may appear on first glance. We all know that Edge battles are the key to winning the game, which means that you need to be able to play units without emptying your hand; the delicate balance between cards in play and cards in hand is one of the most exciting elements of SWLCG. Every time you pull a Viper Probe Droid, you've effectively increased your hand size by one in a very limited fashion -- you can throw it away in an Edge battle or ditch it during your next draw phase to pull another card, but having it in your discard pile is effectively as good as having it in your hand, as you can play it just the same. In other words, you get the benefit of discarding it without losing literally anything at all.

 

 

I'm new to the game and still learning, only having played a handful of games. But Viper Probe Droid seems like it might be overpowered to me. Do you really get to just grab one or even multiples for every edge battle? That's insane if you have two or three (or all four even) in the discard pile, is it not? At most, you'd have four extra edge battle points per edge battle without even taking from your hand. Hmm, I need to put this in one of my decks I was thinking about building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It cannot be placed into the edge stack from the discard pile. What the OP was pointing out was that it could be used in an edge battle from your hand, but then still played on a subsequent turn, negating some of the cost of using it in an edge battle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Heart of the Empire

Doesn't look all that great, if you lose it you lose the game  

but you are the Empire, time is on your side - build a deck around it and lull that filthy Rebel into your trap

 

plus 3 resources right off the bat - get those powerful Sith units out early in the game 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dbmeboy said:

It cannot be placed into the edge stack from the discard pile. What the OP was pointing out was that it could be used in an edge battle from your hand, but then still played on a subsequent turn, negating some of the cost of using it in an edge battle.

 

I know what the original poster meant. It just made me look at the card again and then I thought about playing it from the discard pile in the Edge Battle. And why can't you? You play edge cards from your hand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

videinfra said:

dbmeboy said:

It cannot be placed into the edge stack from the discard pile. What the OP was pointing out was that it could be used in an edge battle from your hand, but then still played on a subsequent turn, negating some of the cost of using it in an edge battle.

 

I know what the original poster meant. It just made me look at the card again and then I thought about playing it from the discard pile in the Edge Battle. And why can't you? You play edge cards from your hand. 

 

The Viper rule states, 

 

You may play this unit from your discard pile as if it was in your hand.

 

when you play a card it gets played into the play area paying any needed costs 

 

Play describes an action where a player pays the resource 
cost of a card in hand and transfers it into play (for a unit 
card or an enhancement card) or resolves its effects and 
then discards it (for an event card). (See “In Play and Out of 
Play” on page 27).]

 

cards in an edge battle are not played 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After today's game where I taught my 12-year-old son how to play and saw him almost defeat the Imperial Navy with the Rebel Alliance, I'm a big fan of the X-wing Escort. Time it right and this little fighter can make them take down their own mighty Devastator. I think it could be great in combo with A New Hope because they're likely to keep their big powerful vehicle units in play, then you use the X-wing Escort's death to make them sacrifice one of the few units they still have on the table. I wonder if it would work well with  Heroic Sacrifice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never used Viper Droid, but I can totally see its utility. It's annoying when you get to those turns where you have a bunch of cards you can't play, and therefore have too many resources. Viper Droid lets you spend those extra resources. I'm a fan.

I also have to second Ancient Monument. I LOVE that card. It has great versatility because it's so good in the edge battle, but if you get it on the table, it'll make your opponent think twice about exhausting all of his Force-committed units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Darik said:

After today's game where I taught my 12-year-old son how to play and saw him almost defeat the Imperial Navy with the Rebel Alliance, I'm a big fan of the X-wing Escort. Time it right and this little fighter can make them take down their own mighty Devastator. I think it could be great in combo with A New Hope because they're likely to keep their big powerful vehicle units in play, then you use the X-wing Escort's death to make them sacrifice one of the few units they still have on the table. I wonder if it would work well with  Heroic Sacrifice

 

It's not really that great with Heroic Sacrifice as your opponent will just choose to sacrifice the vehicle that is cost 4 or less that you have targeted with Heroic Sacrifice to be destroyed by the X-Wing Escort interrupt as the interrupt will resolve before Heroic Sacrifice which will then make your Heroic Sacrifice have no effect and just fizzle out and their Devastator will still be there. .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope that sooner or later they come out with a Star Destroyer unit that costs 4 or less, so that the action depicted in Heroic Sacrifice's art can be performed through gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agnos said:

Honestly, I think It Binds All Things is one of the best and most skill intensive cards to play.  You really have to be thinking about when and how to play that card.

I disagree on that card.  It only works on the top 1 or 2 cards and does not net you a card advantage for such a high cost.  I think Return of the Jedi is better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Badmojojojo said:

agnos said:

 

Honestly, I think It Binds All Things is one of the best and most skill intensive cards to play.  You really have to be thinking about when and how to play that card.

 

 

I disagree on that card.  It only works on the top 1 or 2 cards and does not net you a card advantage for such a high cost.  I think Return of the Jedi is better. 

But that's just the thing, by restricting it to the top (two) card(s), you prevent it from becoming too abuseable while still allowing one of the most powerful effects in the game. You have a lot of control over the top of your discard pile, and while you can do things like "use Yoda in an edge battle and get him back," it is the only Light Side card that allows you to recover events (Extra Jedi Mind Trick? Swindled? Rebel Assault? Yes please!) and the only card in the game that can pull Fate cards out of the discard pile. I also personally consider Jedi Training a better objective set than Last Minute Rescue, but that's debatable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It Binds All Things is borderline broken. It's the linchpin of the game's first infinite combo, and while said combo is extremely difficult to pull off, requiring 5 cards, it speaks to the potential of IBAT to fuel all kinds of crazy shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had to errata it at some point to remove the ability to fetch more than one card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xenu's Paradox said:

It Binds All Things is borderline broken. It's the linchpin of the game's first infinite combo, and while said combo is extremely difficult to pull off, requiring 5 cards, it speaks to the potential of IBAT to fuel all kinds of crazy shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had to errata it at some point to remove the ability to fetch more than one card.

Requiring 5 cards?  Only requires 3: 2 IBAT and 1 useful event (Jedi Mind Trick, Swindled, Rebel Assault, etc.).  The problem of said combo is that if you don't already have board control or close to it, then it's just a huge resource sink where you don't really get to see many new cards to advance board state.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Repair Droid is a card that to me looks like crap but has actually come in very handy in many games.  Its ability to fix your ships is huge to get around Heat of Battles, etc.  Often an opponent will want to combo Heat of Battle with winning an edge battle and striking first to destroy one of your key units, but Repair Droid can throw a big wrench into plans.  Not to mention he only costs one and has a force icon so he can control the force at times too.

Crossfire might not exactly fit this category as it does look like a good card, but I think it is worth mentioning as such a great utility card that can come in handy in any situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agnos said:

Xenu's Paradox said:

 

It Binds All Things is borderline broken. It's the linchpin of the game's first infinite combo, and while said combo is extremely difficult to pull off, requiring 5 cards, it speaks to the potential of IBAT to fuel all kinds of crazy shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had to errata it at some point to remove the ability to fetch more than one card.

 

 

Requiring 5 cards?  Only requires 3: 2 IBAT and 1 useful event (Jedi Mind Trick, Swindled, Rebel Assault, etc.).  The problem of said combo is that if you don't already have board control or close to it, then it's just a huge resource sink where you don't really get to see many new cards to advance board state.  

An infinite combo, by definition, has to be capable of going through an arbitrary number of iterations in succession. So without a way to refresh all your cards (like Leia + Rescue Mission), you've got a combo that can be repeated, but not an infinite combo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unknown said:

It Binds All Things is borderline broken. It's the linchpin of the game's first infinite combo, and while said combo is extremely difficult to pull off, requiring 5 cards, it speaks to the potential of IBAT to fuel all kinds of crazy shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had to errata it at some point to remove the ability to fetch more than one card.

 

IBAT with a cost of 1 can't be infinite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tangen said:

Unknown said:

 

It Binds All Things is borderline broken. It's the linchpin of the game's first infinite combo, and while said combo is extremely difficult to pull off, requiring 5 cards, it speaks to the potential of IBAT to fuel all kinds of crazy shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had to errata it at some point to remove the ability to fetch more than one card.

 

 

 

IBAT with a cost of 1 can't be infinite.

Unless you have a way of refreshing resources. Currently, the combo is Leia + 2x IBAT + Rescue Mission + any event that removes Leia from play. However, FFG now has to be very careful about introducing LS effects that refresh resources, because such a card could conceivably reduce the complexity of the combo. For instance, an event that allows you to refresh multiple enhancements could replace Leia, Rescue Mission, and the removal event, dropping the combo down to 3 cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The easiest way to solve this is to disallow re-drawing discarded cards which allow re-drawing cards. IBAT could be re-ruled as to be eliminated from the game after being played.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agnos said:

Xenu's Paradox said:

 

It Binds All Things is borderline broken. It's the linchpin of the game's first infinite combo, and while said combo is extremely difficult to pull off, requiring 5 cards, it speaks to the potential of IBAT to fuel all kinds of crazy shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if FFG had to errata it at some point to remove the ability to fetch more than one card.

 

 

Requiring 5 cards?  Only requires 3: 2 IBAT and 1 useful event (Jedi Mind Trick, Swindled, Rebel Assault, etc.).  The problem of said combo is that if you don't already have board control or close to it, then it's just a huge resource sink where you don't really get to see many new cards to advance board state.  

The definition Paradox is using for infinite combo is a loop that can be repeated an arbitrarily large number of times in a single turn. In order to do that, you need Leia Organa, both It Binds All Things, Rescue Mission, and You're My Only Hope. With those cards you may repeat the cycle until you run out of cards in your command deck.

That being said, I think It Binds All Things is a very good card, but not a broken one. In fact, I'd hesitate to say that any card in the game so far is broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xenu's Paradox said:

Unless you have a way of refreshing resources. Currently, the combo is Leia + 2x IBAT + Rescue Mission + any event that removes Leia from play. However, FFG now has to be very careful about introducing LS effects that refresh resources, because such a card could conceivably reduce the complexity of the combo. For instance, an event that allows you to refresh multiple enhancements could replace Leia, Rescue Mission, and the removal event, dropping the combo down to 3 cards.

Fair enough.  Granted I'm not sure this 5 card combo can actually win you the game even if you are able to generate infinite resources.  Presumably you would have to be able to do 12 damage ( getting 3 unopposed bonus).  The combo so far requires pod 7 x2, pod 10 x2 and pod 16 x2.  Pod 7 gives you 8 blast icons; Pod 10 gives you 4 blast icons; Pod 16 gives you 0 blast icons.  So theoretically, you can use the combo with You're My Only Hope to draw your whole deck.  I think the combo can be disrupted with 1 Force Choke however as at some point you have to be playing cards out.  One It's Worse also negates Leia's trigger which can prevent it from going off in the mean time.  Plus the combo is so unlikely to get all the pieces at once that it's not worth playing.  But as you say, if FFG makes more ways to draw cards or refresh then it could be quite possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Requiring so many cards, and having many ways in which the (infinite) combo can be disrupted (or shut down entirely) such as; Dark side destroys units that give resources (mon mothma, r2), or already has a captured character = 50% chance it ends when you dont get leia back (if they're low on resources) (Dark side can use detained or boba fet to get a second capture in combat…).

The Dark side could also remove any LS card on the board because IBAT must target the top two cards or it could use interrogation to remove one of the IBAT's from hand or just use "it's worse" to counter.  Most of these cards are sith… so this will be harder for the Navy to stop - given the current card pool.

I think this combo will be a nasty surprise for any that don't expect it - but, competative players are going to know about it - and have the information of if that combo has a chance of showing up well before hand, due to the information revealed about what's in play. It will be very hard for light side to both set up, and protect the combo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0