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The_Brown_Bomber

What will be the optimal number of interceptors to use in a 100pt squad?

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hothie said:

hothie said:

 

What about making regular TIEs into pseudo-Interceptors? How about this:

Turr Phennir with Push the Limit (this combo will be a staple in my Imperial squads from now on. I've used it very effectively every time I've run it. It's beautiful when I can attack, then duck out of the way and not get attacked back. :)

Mauler Mithel with Engine Upgrade

Backstabber with Engine Upgrade

Dark Curse with Stealth (another beautiful combo. Hasn't taken a hit yet.)

Academy Pilot

 

Essentially, giving Boost to Mauler and Backstabber give them the maneuverability of the Interceptor, and their abilities give them the extra dice. So you're effectively getting Interceptors for cheaper, with higher Pilot skills. Yes, I know, the extra dice are in the given situations, but still. And the maneuvers are a little different, but not by much. Thoughts?

And as an added plus, I can actually field this squad now without using proxies, as I have 1 Interceptor.

 

 

So I played this today against Ziggy, and it worked really well. He took Turr out quickly, but even so, this squad still had enough firepower to take out his Turr, Howlrunner, and Krass, only losing the Academy Pilot to a well-placed proximity mine. It was a fun game, which we knew it would be right off because we loaded the asteroids in the middle of the board. He had a Firespray, so I knew maneuvering through the field would be difficult, and it proved to be. He probably should have relied on his auxiliary firing arc more while getting into clear areas to fire and maneuver. Oh, and Stealthed Dark Curse still hasn't taken a hit yet in 3 games. I like this squad. I boosted a few times with Backstabber and Mauler, which helped, and had a lot of fun barrel rolling into and out of firing arcs.

gr8 feedback. good to see ur putting up some decent results already, i can help but think two intercepters is optimal but there simply isnt room with this nimber of name pilots so u will have to rob peter to pay for paul which is tough as u have already got decent synergy. im gonna do some testing and tweeking witha  simlar build.

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Yeah, giving Boost to Backstabber and Mauler really worked well. Backstabber got to use his ability a few times, so it was like shooting with an Interceptor. If I were to use more actual interceptors, I would have to get rid of the Academy Pilot, and that 5th ship really makes a big difference. Especially since I can use him to "block". I can't really do that with any of the other ships in the squad. So, I'm happy with the build.

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hothie said:

Keep in mind Daredevil will give you a stress token, as it is a red maneuver. Therefore, if Turr uses that during the activation phase, he won't be able to take his free boost/barrel roll after attacking, because he will have a stress token, thus preventing him from taking those free actions. This is why I'm not a fan of Daredevil on Turr.

Instead, I prefer Push the Limit. During the activation phase, use any of his listed actions as necessary, then after attacking, either Boost or Barrel roll. Then activate Push the limit to use another action as necessary. My preference is to barrel roll, the boost out of my opponent's firing arc, thus I will attack him but he cannot attack back. You will then receive a stress token. Next round execute a green maneuver, of which the TIE Interceptor has plenty, rinse, and repeat. :)

I haven't playtested at all, so I'm looking for your feedback of having actually played a couple sessions… it seems as though Push the Limit is overkill on Turr. How often do you find the PTL free action to be "critical"? The reason I ask is because, for 1 point less, you can take Veteran Instincts on Turr (making him PS9), and initiative for the game (PTL costs 3 vs VI costs 1 and a 99 point build "costs" 1.) As was mentioned above, you'll outmaneuver Wedge all day long.

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Oh, using PtL comes up every single game with Turr.

Imagine I am facing your ship at Range 1. Turr has pilot level 7, and yours is less than that, so I attack first. I make my attack, I then use my free barrel roll action. Then with Push the Limit, I use the boost action. I am now no longer in your firing arc. So I attacked you at range 1, rolling 4 dice, and now you can't attack me back. Plus, in one of the games, after attacking at range 1, my barrel roll and boost action got me out of Range 2 of the ship behind me, so now I was at range 3, AND I was hiding behind an asteroid. So, now my rolling 3 defense dice against the ship behind me just went to rolling 5 defense dice after I made my attack. That was absolutely beautiful, and totally worth it. You can trick Turr out any way you want, and have fun doing it. For me and my play style, I'm sticking with Push the Limit on him.

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Im quite liking the 1-2 punch combo of purr and fel, im debating losing my 2 unamed ints and sticking vader with push the limit and either concusion or homing missiles just to get close, take out something important then boost past.

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A little disclaimer for those who may be reading this thread for advice, and haven't actually tried out the Interceptors yet.

An Interceptor is a lot of points for one attack die and the same survivability as a Tie Fighter.  Their largest strength is maneuverability (maneuver dial coupled with boost action) and that extra attack die is just a bonus.  Keep that in mind when you field them for the first time, because if you fly straight at your opponent and are both firing range 1 shots at eachother, your Interceptor will die just as quickly as an Academy Pilot.

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Ok, another squad idea with 2 Interceptors:

Turr with Ptl (I've said a lot about this already. Not going into it again.)

Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

Fel's Wrath

Black Squadron Pilot with Draw Their Fire and Shield Upgrade

Academy Pilot

 

Essentially this is a kamikaze squad, meant to be played at Range 1. Mauler, Fel's Wrath, the bodyguard (more on that in a minute), and possibly the Academy Pilot rush in to try and get Range 1 quickly. While Turr can either hang back or get into the fray. I would love to put Draw Their Fire on Fel's Wrath, but he doesn't have an elite pilot talent so I can't. (So he could take crits even after his max damage level has been achieved.)

As the game evolves, it seems squads are tending toward fewer pilots but with higher skill levels, and everyone has Stealth Device or some such upgrade. Stealth Device is even more powerful at Range 3, and when attacking through asteroids. So, one way to get rid of the Stealth Device is to take advantage of the Range 1 attack bonus to primary attacks. Once Stealth Device is gone, ships tend to go down quickly from what I've seen. Crab all you want about Fel's Wrath, but at Range 1, he could be very useful for getting rid of Stealth Device. Ditto for Mauler. The Academy Pilot can either "block" or fly in the second wave with Turr. There are a few options with how to play the AP.

The fun part though is the bodyguard. You probably think I'm crazy putting Draw their Fire and a Shield Upgrade on a Black Squadron Pilot, and you're probably right. But with an aggressive squad like this, I thought it would be fun to have a bodyguard flying right behind them soaking up the crits that they take. With TIE squads, you want your opponent to spread the damage out amongst your ships, and this is the cheapest way to make him do so. Plus I had an extra 4 points, so I thought a shield upgrade would make him last a little bit longer. Plus, how great is it when Wedge crits Mauler, only to have the level 4 pilot take the damage?

This is a very aggressive squad, and in playtesting it, it may not turn out so well, but I thought it could be a fun twist.

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why not use the remaining 4 points to upgrade the last academy pilot to Winged Gundark / Backstabber instead? works better with the theme of hitting others at range 1

 

or give the bodyguard an engine upgrade so he can keep up with the rest and be whereever he is needed

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If I don't use Boost on Fel's wrath, the bodyguard should be able to keep up fairly easily. And I may look at Backstabber instead and see what I think of it. I dunno. I thought having a shield on the bodyguard would at least mitigate one of the crits without resolving its effect at all,which might make him last a little bit longer. But losing a 15 point bodyguard is easier to swallow than losing a 19 point one. Eh, I tinker and see what i come up with.

Although there is something to be said for being able to block Dutch from Target Locking, or blocking Biggs from using R2F2, or blocking Wedge from using Expose, etc. And I do like to do those things.

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The more i thought about this today, the more I like the idea of upgrading the AP to Winged Gundark. He will be attacking after 3 of my other ships, so they will have the chance to take away some shields, meaning Gundark's crit will be more effective if it doesn't kill the ship outright. Plus that puts the squad at 99, which I'm not opposed to. And with initiative, I'll be moving before Biggs, Dutch, Wedge, or Vader anyway, so I can still block if i need to. Plus I like having a 15 point bodyguard rather than a 19 point one anyway. So after considering it today, I think I like the squad like this:

Turr Phennir with PtL

Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

Fel's Wrath

Winged Gundark

Black Squadron pilot with Draw Their Fire

 

It may not be the end-all be-all, but it'll be fun! :)

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And with Fel's Wrath, Winged Gundark, and Black Squadron Pilot, all TIEs that don't/won't see a lot of action, I think I'm calling this squad "The Island of Misfit TIEs." :D

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hothie said:

The more i thought about this today, the more I like the idea of upgrading the AP to Winged Gundark. He will be attacking after 3 of my other ships, so they will have the chance to take away some shields, meaning Gundark's crit will be more effective if it doesn't kill the ship outright. Plus that puts the squad at 99, which I'm not opposed to. And with initiative, I'll be moving before Biggs, Dutch, Wedge, or Vader anyway, so I can still block if i need to. Plus I like having a 15 point bodyguard rather than a 19 point one anyway. So after considering it today, I think I like the squad like this:

Turr Phennir with PtL

Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

Fel's Wrath

Winged Gundark

Black Squadron pilot with Draw Their Fire

 

It may not be the end-all be-all, but it'll be fun! :)

One suggestion: Fel's Wrath is a good thematic fit for the Island of Misfit TIEs, but he costs 23 points for a PS5 Interceptor with a really situational ability. A Saber Squadron Pilot with Veteran Instincts is 22 points for a PS6 Interceptor--you miss out on Fel's ability, but the increase in skill also makes it more likely that you'll get your attack in the last round anyway.

I don't know if shaving off that extra point does you any good, since you like the squad where it is--but I've been having a lot of fun with Saber Squadron lately.

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Well, the way I figure it, there will be enough ships at, shall we say level 6 or greater, that Fel's Wrath will likely be destroyed by a ship of higher pilot skill, especially with a kamikaze squad like this one is. And keep in mind, I plan on playing this squad at range 1 as much as possible, which means my opponent will be at range 1 as well when he attacks. Even with a bodyguard, I do expect him to be destroyed by someone higher than him. His ability just means that he will be able to get his last shot off before dying, which will hopefully be at Range 1, meaning 4 dice. That is what I have planned.

Another option is I face, say a Wedge with 3 rookies or some such. I fly Fel's Wrath straight at Wedge, because FW's ability is useless with the rooks. I get that. Likewise scenario with a similar Imperial build, I fly at Vader, or Fel, or whomever.

Another option is the YT/Firespray as an opponent. If facing one, I plan on those pilots being level 5 or higher as well, as most of them are, and especially the ones that are worth fielding. If one of those destroys FW, I still get my shot.

Yes, I know I may be crazy for fielding FW, but with the way the game is headed, I'll give it a shot. I'll run this list a few times, see how it does, tweak, etc. I may go with a cheaper option, but I do kinda like the squad as it is now.

And if he does get destroyed by someone with higher pilot skill than him, my opponent just got 23 points. But what if I kill something that's worth more with my final shot? Is that not worth fielding him? Barebones Dutch and Arvel are the same cost but higher skill. Would you run either of these without upgrades? The only other pilots that are higher skill level but cost less are the named regular TIEs, in which case FW may not be as worth his points, but certainly can take one of them out before being removed from the board.

 

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100 points

15 points
Black Squadron Pilot
Draw Their Fire
15 points
Black Squadron Pilot
Draw Their Fire
41 points
Darth Vader
Assault Missiles, Daredevil, Engine Upgrade
29 points
Turr Phennir
Veteran Instincts, Stealth Device

 

 

The Black Squadrons with Draw Their Fire bodyguard for Vader and Phennir.  Vader with Boost and Daredevil does bootleg turns on the fly and can almost always get himself into a great position.  Phennir with 9 skill really benefits if they have initiative able to shoot other 9 skill pilots first and then get out of their Arc. 

I was skeptical about a 4 ship Tie build being that they would be outnumbered from the get go.  This squad has a surpising amount of offense and staying power.

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hothie said:

Yes, I know I may be crazy for fielding FW, but with the way the game is headed, I'll give it a shot. I'll run this list a few times, see how it does, tweak, etc. I may go with a cheaper option, but I do kinda like the squad as it is now.

Nah, not crazy at all, particularly if you're not trying to squeeze anything else in. Just thought I'd offer an alternative that's worked nicely for me.

I think Wrath is an interesting pilot, for exactly the reason you mentioned--his raison d'etre is to get close to the badguys, knowing you can soak up their best shot and still hit back. I also like that It subtly changes the stakes on how you spend your actions, particularly for Wedge: if you only get one action, can you afford to Target Lock, or do you Focus instead to preserve the defensive option? Can you afford to spend your Focus on the attack, or do you save it to help mitigate the counterstrike you can't stop?

 

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Well, the max number of Interceptors you can have is 5, so how about this:

 

Turr with PtL

Alpha Squadron X4

 

I think 6-8 ship TIE swarms with 2 attack dice just aren't going to cut it with Wave 2 (whether or not they did in Wave 1 is arguable, but that's another topic), so I think an Interceptor swarm like this is going to be the new norm for swarms. I think you're going to see 3 attack dice be almost necessary now due to the overuse of Stealth Device. Swarms are going to go away from 6+ attacks with 2 dice to 5 attacks with 3 dice. You could replace Turr with Backstabber and an Academy Pilot in this squad, but I don't know if you get the same punch with those 2.

I do like Stormtrooper's (I think, if not, I apologize) "You can't touch this squad" of Alpha pilot X4 with Stealth Device and Dark Curse. Defensively it's pretty sound, and it packs the offensive punch of 4 Interceptors.

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hothie said:

The more i thought about this today, the more I like the idea of upgrading the AP to Winged Gundark. He will be attacking after 3 of my other ships, so they will have the chance to take away some shields, meaning Gundark's crit will be more effective if it doesn't kill the ship outright. Plus that puts the squad at 99, which I'm not opposed to. And with initiative, I'll be moving before Biggs, Dutch, Wedge, or Vader anyway, so I can still block if i need to. Plus I like having a 15 point bodyguard rather than a 19 point one anyway. So after considering it today, I think I like the squad like this:

Turr Phennir with PtL

Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

Fel's Wrath

Winged Gundark

Black Squadron pilot with Draw Their Fire

 

It may not be the end-all be-all, but it'll be fun! :)

I ran your list, "The Isle of Misfit TIES" today in a quick game vs Wedge, Luke & 2 rookie Xwings.  99pts each

My opponent was inexperienced but I think the list proved itself.  Fel's Wrath performed exactly as you hoped he would.  Wedge & Luke fried him in the first volley, but he took both of Wedge's shields before he went.  Soontir Fel and Mauler slipped into Wedge's 6 the next round and killed him while Gundark & bodyguard stripped Luke's shields post koiogran.  Here is where my opponents inexperience hurt him.  He ran luke away, bringing the two rookies around to attack Gundark & guard, but he didn't realize I could Straight 3 destress, so the rookies ended up pointed the wrong way while my 4 ships closed the noose around Luke and iced him, but it took all 4 shots to do it (stupid inherent def buff :D)

We had to end it there since he had to leave, but I just wanted to let you know The Misfits are no joke!!  Keep up the good work, Hothie.

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Ran  a 150 pointer last night, running Soontir and Turr both with ptl and stealth, 2 Tempest squadron with concussion missiles, Mauler with stealth and a black squadron pilot with elusiveness. Opponent was running Han in the falcon, Wedge with assorted upgrades (shields and r2d2) and two rookie Xwings. 

 

Won the game after taking the Falcon out ( which took an absolutely ridiculous amount of shooting). Soontir with ptl and stealth is almost impossible to hit; move, boost, ptl for evade, stress, focus. Three actions a turn. Was rolling 4 agility dice plus the evade. Frustrating as hell for my opponent. 

 

Love the interceptors and will be getting at least two more…..

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hothie said:

Well, the max number of Interceptors you can have is 5, so how about this:

 

Turr with PtL

Alpha Squadron X4

 

I think 6-8 ship TIE swarms with 2 attack dice just aren't going to cut it with Wave 2 (whether or not they did in Wave 1 is arguable, but that's another topic), so I think an Interceptor swarm like this is going to be the new norm for swarms. I think you're going to see 3 attack dice be almost necessary now due to the overuse of Stealth Device. Swarms are going to go away from 6+ attacks with 2 dice to 5 attacks with 3 dice. You could replace Turr with Backstabber and an Academy Pilot in this squad, but I don't know if you get the same punch with those 2.

I do like Stormtrooper's (I think, if not, I apologize) "You can't touch this squad" of Alpha pilot X4 with Stealth Device and Dark Curse. Defensively it's pretty sound, and it packs the offensive punch of 4 Interceptors.

I have that exact list written down under the heading "stuff to test". I love the idea of 5 Interceptors, but my big worry is that the Alphas' pilot skill will hurt them. You can't afford the kind of losses the Wave 1 TIE swarms could, and a 4 X-wing list wouldn't need much luck to pick off an Alpha before it ever fires. I think it'll still be okay, and it's an excuse to play with Turr (who after a few practice games I actually like better than Fel), but maybe you end up padding out your numbers with the TIE fighters just to give your opponent something to shoot at while you flank with the Interceptors.

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Yeah, I'm kinda partial towards Turr over Fel myself, although PtL is great on both. Turr is a little cheaper for effectively the same thing. I just like being able to get out of my opponents firing arc after attacking with Turr, which is really nice.

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After last night (see my post above) I'm actually a bit undecided between Turr and Fel. Fel with ptl and a stealth device is a nightmare to hit. Turr on the other hand can pull off insane maneuvers with the same cards. Hmmmm…..

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I didn't have much time today. So I ended up playing a 60 point game. I wanted to at least try some of my misfits out, so I ran:

Fel's Wrath

Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

Black Squadron Pilot with Draw Their Fire and Shield Upgrade

 

He ran Wedge and Dutch. (I was happy because I had the chance to use Fel's ability.)

Optimally, I would like to be out of range 3, and then move into Range 1 the next round when the combat starts, so I've been working on an opening that delays the combat until I'm ready. So I ran that opening, and it worked pretty well. I managed to stay out of combat until I could get right into range 1. And boy was it bloody for him. Took Wedge out first combat round, then koiograned and made a few shots at Dutch. Dutch hit Mauler once (his 2 dice vs my 4, 3 blanks and a focus) ,and that was all of the damage that i took (wedge rolled bad on his attack). He landed Dutch on an asteroid, and the game was brutally over shortly afterwards.

The squad ran pretty much like I thought it would, which was good. And my opening worked like I thought it would, so I was happy about that. Overall, I feel good about running the misfits. I'll have to try and get a game in next weekend when i can play all of them together.

 

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hothie said:

Keep in mind Daredevil will give you a stress token, as it is a red maneuver. Therefore, if Turr uses that during the activation phase, he won't be able to take his free boost/barrel roll after attacking, because he will have a stress token, thus preventing him from taking those free actions. This is why I'm not a fan of Daredevil on Turr.

Instead, I prefer Push the Limit. During the activation phase, use any of his listed actions as necessary, then after attacking, either Boost or Barrel roll. Then activate Push the limit to use another action as necessary. My preference is to barrel roll, the boost out of my opponent's firing arc, thus I will attack him but he cannot attack back. You will then receive a stress token. Next round execute a green maneuver, of which the TIE Interceptor has plenty, rinse, and repeat. :)

Agree. Daredevil is a better fit with Fel due to the fact that his special ability is to get a focus token when he gets a stress token. I was lucky enough to make the finals in out local KRT and that's the way Fel was kitted out in the list provided. It was fun being able to stay behind an A-wing no matter what my opponent tried to do to shake me off his tail.

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hothie said:

I didn't have much time today. So I ended up playing a 60 point game. I wanted to at least try some of my misfits out, so I ran:

Fel's Wrath

Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

Black Squadron Pilot with Draw Their Fire and Shield Upgrade

 

He ran Wedge and Dutch. (I was happy because I had the chance to use Fel's ability.)

Optimally, I would like to be out of range 3, and then move into Range 1 the next round when the combat starts, so I've been working on an opening that delays the combat until I'm ready. So I ran that opening, and it worked pretty well. I managed to stay out of combat until I could get right into range 1. And boy was it bloody for him. Took Wedge out first combat round, then koiograned and made a few shots at Dutch. Dutch hit Mauler once (his 2 dice vs my 4, 3 blanks and a focus) ,and that was all of the damage that i took (wedge rolled bad on his attack). He landed Dutch on an asteroid, and the game was brutally over shortly afterwards.

The squad ran pretty much like I thought it would, which was good. And my opening worked like I thought it would, so I was happy about that. Overall, I feel good about running the misfits. I'll have to try and get a game in next weekend when i can play all of them together.

 

 

I'm more curious about the maneuvers actually, I find myself usually stuck at range 2 or risk overshooting/collisions with the target when I attempt to pull that off. I understand the beginning maneuvers because there is really only that few effective methods to delay the first engagement, but after the range 3/ out of range round what do you do? Koiogran 4/5 the front few ships? or rush in with forward 2/3 then use boost to further adjust the distance? or just risk it with forward 5? and also, wouldn't the in-your-face range 1 exchange be very risky too, especially when Wedge has the potential to one-shot TIEs.

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I managed to delay until we were just out of Range 3, then went straight 4 or bank 3 depending. My bodyguard went first, which leaves a nice blocker behind my front wave in case he does try to k-turn to get behind me. But seriously, when we're out of range 3, who then does a k-turn as their next maneuver?

And yes, being at Range 1 is risky defensively, but that's why the bodyguard is there, to try and mitigate some of the damage I'll take.

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