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diablo666

What is the future of Arkham Horror??

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I wish I was a fly on the wall in the offices of FFG and knew the answer to this question.

It seemed pretty clear from there report at Gencon that Arkham Horror is going to have more things for it but what is that going to be??

Where is this FAQ that was talked about YEARS ago???

Questions that I hope will get answers sometime soon.

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diablo666 said:

Questions that I hope will get answers sometime soon.

That's a shared desired, I think :-)

Something small, I guess. Maybe thematically tuned to the new Yig? Who knows. I hope before Yule something good is announced. Not that I'm in a rush: the game offers endless hours of fun as it is, but still, I'd love to see something new coming :-)

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I hope they are not planning to revise everything or make a Second edition of the main game. That would suck as I am trying to get everything Arkham-related right now…

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I actually hope they will never release the FAQ, I have so much fun discussing the rules on the forum.

And I agree that a new edition would be disastrous.

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With all of the existing game materials, adding even more expansion material is probably somewhat unlikely.  Playing with every expansion would already require 2 kitchen tables.  If they keep going your going to run out of closet space.

I think there are a few things worth considering though.

Arkham Horror Deluxe super box:  Every expansion (large and small) in a single box.

Revised Kingsport Horror:  Maybe add some unstable locations, and possibly some varients for the way rifts are handled.  Kingsport gets a number of complaints for being like unpaid baby sitting;  ie, the person keeping the rifts under control by visiting locations in Kingsport doesn't have many opportunities to fight monsters (except fliers, swimmers, and the like) or enter other worlds.  Justified or not, fixing that perception may be worth trying.

More Small Box expansions:  If they do put out more small box expansions, I think that FFG ought to continue to do what they did with Miskatonic Horror, and add elements that interact with older expansions.

END COMMUNICATION

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 @Tbla - You do realize that with a game this big, they could probably publish 3 FAQs and not cover all of the situations and rules questions that come up on this forum alone?  Sure they'd get the big ones, but there are a myriad of situations that are so obscure.  The discussion is nice but I'd rather have some more solid answers about how to interpret phrases on cards that cause the discussions.

 

I have a tendency to not mix expansions as much as I think people do and while I have my list of favorites (like everyone), I find that adding 1 board with a group of 4 investigators is enough.  That's why another board expansion would be fine with me.  Playing with all of them now would be just too much of a pain.  I also don't think FFG cares about your closet space.  They care about whether or not you'd actually by the product.  The real question is, how many people who actually read this forum would by another expansion (good or bad)?  I know that I would!  :)

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LordZardoz said:


Revised Kingsport Horror:  Maybe add some unstable locations, and possibly some varients for the way rifts are handled.  Kingsport gets a number of complaints for being like unpaid baby sitting;  ie, the person keeping the rifts under control by visiting locations in Kingsport doesn't have many opportunities to fight monsters (except fliers, swimmers, and the like) or enter other worlds.  Justified or not, fixing that perception may be worth trying.



This perception is due to the fact that most of the peope truly believe that they have to have an investigator in Kingsport for the whole game, dealing with rifts, and this is clearly *wrong*. You need an investigator there when you start having three tokens on a rift track. So, most of the times you have to send an investigator there only in the very last part of the game. Plus, I don't see many difference in having an encounter in an unstable location or in a stable one (in case there are no clues on either location): I'd personally prefer having an encounter in a stable one, in order to avoid "a gate and a monster appear" encounters. So, this perception can be easily fixed by playing in a strategically correct way that board. Adding unstable location can easily screw completely the dynamics of the board: a gate can block you from closing a rift once opened.

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Julia,

     You'll read about her exploits in my latest story/write-up, but I have to tell you…Wendy is the BEST Investigator for Kingsport duty.  She can Evade every monster in the streets and usually has the stats to really do well in that city.

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One option for Kingsport duty is to have an extra player who is played by the 1st player for that round. Any team-player investigator like Leo (prevents damage), Mandy (reroll) or George (prevents arrest) is good as you can still benefit from their special ability even when they are in Kingsport. It goes without saying that this will make the game easier for you.

Some of the Leads and Music of Erich Zann cards in Lovecraft Country deliberately point to Kingsport to make it more visitting Kingsport more profitable.

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For me a reasonable fix for Kingsport is to release a monster on a stable location each time a rift marker cannot be placed due to the spots being full. This gives Kingsport some life and prevents over tactical play of completely ignoring whats going on there.

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The Professor said:


Julia,


     You'll read about her exploits in my latest story/write-up, but I have to tell you…Wendy is the BEST Investigator for Kingsport duty.  She can Evade every monster in the streets and usually has the stats to really do well in that city.



Sure, Wendy is brilliant. But sadly, she's brilliant on *every* board, especially to stop monsters diving into vortices (you can simply park her in front of a vortex and nothing will move after entereing her street area / location, plus she doesn't even have to roll the Evade, because she auto passes all the rolls). Plus, her starting 8 clues (ES + 3) it's amazing. Half of the sealing work can be done by her very very soon in any game.

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Been playing a few Kingsport games recently, and I'd agree with Julia.  The first few games with the expansion it really did feel like someone had to be up there all the time just have encounter after encounter.  It made me not want to play it.  But we kept at it.  At this point, we rotate investigators in and out of Kingsport so no one is permanently on "kingsport duty" and it actually works out better this way because the investigator in Kingsport will be 'needed' in Arkham for something 'important'.  You CAN afford to let the rift track go for a bit unless the game becomes long.  We have also sent 2 investigators up to Kingsport to spend a few turns and return to Arkham after the track was back under control.

As an example: our game last night against Yibb-Tstll saw three of the four different investigators spend time in Kingsport.  At one point we had 2 in KS working rift tracks down at the same time.  Yibb almost spawned but thankfully, we were able to get our 6th (7th because of a gate burst) with Charlie Kane (of all people).  Lily was devoured trying to establish the 6th seal in R'lyeh (2nd pannel) because she only had 1 stam.  Over all a very exciting game.  The key point being that I don't think anyone felt as though they were 'stuck' doing KS duty.

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I like visiting Kingsport. It does feel like a small break from the insanity elsewhere.

The key, though, is recognizing that an investigator doesn't need to be there straight from the beginning of the game. Typically, I don't send anyone up there unless one rift is just about to pop.

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Tactically, it may very well be the case that you do not need to spend much time in Kingsport.

However, compare that to the other two 'big board' expansions.

Dunwich Horror:  Gates will open here very often.  Monsters can feed Vortex and awaken the Horror and also feed the terror level.  If Dunwich horror wakes up, you need to go there and kill it to keep Doom Track from accellerating because every time the horror moves, you add a doom token.  Killing the Horror is a fun challenge.  Sealing a gate in Dunwich will add to the victory conditions of the game.

Innsmouth Horror:  Gates open here very often.  Monsters will feed vortex and cause a Deep One uprising and awaken the GOO immediately as well as feeding the terror level.  You need to spend clue tokens to get the feds to raid the place.  There is also the added challenge / risks from Marshal Law and having to draw Innsmouth Look cards.  If you go out to the reef, you need help to get back.  You go to Innsmouth both because it is needed and because it is fun.  Sealing a gate in Innsmouth will add to the victory conditions of the game.

Kingsport Horror:  Gates never open here.  If a rift opens, it open where the gate opened.  No monsters show up in Kingsport except monsters with special movement rules.  Rifts will accellerate the doom track so there is a reason to go out here.  You can also try to get 'Changed' or 'Captain of White Ship'.  This will require monster or gate tokens, neither of which you are likley to get in Kingsport.  And getting the 'Changed' state will take up yet more time (at least 3 turns).  However, time spent in Kingsport cannot advance progress towards winning the game.  it might help, but most likely it will be time spent not sealing gates.  At best, your just buying time to keep the doom track and monster population under control.

Kingsport takes up just as much table space as Dunwich or Innsmouth while adding a whole lot less fun.  It is not a bad expansion, but out of the 3 'big box' expansions, it is arguably the weakest.

I just cannot see how arguing 'Kingsport might not be interesting to explore, but at least you do not have to spend much time in Kingsport' is a good selling point.  The entire location is just a timesink with minimal incentives to visit.  Innsmouth kind of sucks to visit with the crazy number of chances to get devoured or arrested, but it is interesting and you are given reasons to be there.  it adds more strategic choices to manage.  Dunwich is not nearly as brutal but there are positive incentives to kiling that monster.  And after dealing with a Deep One Uprising or killing the Dunwich Horror, you do not have to spend 2 or 3 turns going somewhere else to get back to the business of sealing gates.

Kingsport can be improved.

END COMMUNICATION

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Hello everyone!

I know it has been already suggested but I'd like to expand a bit…

I would gladly welcome a small box or a book publication (or a POD even) containing the Arkham Nights scenarios and maybe some bonus material in the form of allies or mythos cards ecc. They could even come up with new similar campaigns requiring and intergrating various parts of the AH collection and possibly adding a few new components to enhance the stories and make an even more appealing product. (not that it would not be otherwise! :))

This way they could also easily add  corrections/improvements to aspects of the game that need any, avoiding dreaded new editions. (I got a TShirt with the script "I am a victim of the new Dark Pharaoh").

Cheers!     

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LordZardoz said:

And getting the 'Changed' state will take up yet more time (at least 3 turns).

I'd say 6 turns. Three to climb the Kigsport Head up, three to go back to the city. Which means that technically no one ever goes there for the Changed card, unless you draw the Mythos card allowing you to go directly to the Strange High House in the Mist.

The main point about the Kingsport board is that, as you said, no gate will ever open there. But if they did, it'd be almost impossible sealing any open rift. In some way, with these rift mechanics, you cannot have gates. But I'd not say that a board is good because it has locations where gates can open, and it's bad on the countrary. Plus, Kingsport board offers you encounters to get Allies, items, clues as all other boards. Plus, it's something new: if you look at the dynamics behind Innsmouth and Dunwich, they're rather similar: monsters entering into vortices induce something bad to happen. Rifts are a completely different mechanic that never suffers dilution: you can play how many expansions you want, and they'll always represent the same threat. Try a Dunwich game with all small expansions in and no Miskatonic Horror: you'll see how you can ignore easily the Dunwich board for the whole game. But in the same game, with the same expansion combo, you cannot ignore Kingsport in the same way.

Plus: between buying Kingsport and Innsmouth, I'll go certainly for Kingsport as second big expansion: there is much more content for everyone (new items, new spells, new allies: Innsmouth does not have Investigator cards but the Personal Story, which is a cool variant but it's not mandatory). So, even if the board could seem a turn off (which is not for me, but that's only my personal opinion), the box content of Kingsport is much more appealing than the one from Innsmouth. Innsmouth is *difficult*. But that's another story

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Maybe I'm just biased against Kingsport, but honestly, its Allies are the only small-card content I have much interest in.  Okay, Ancient Language, Credit Rating, Makeup Kit, and the pay-to-refresh weapons are kind of cool, but most of the cards seem either cheap (Eltdown Shards, Crystal of the Elder Things, Livre d'Ivon), redundant (most of the skills and spells), or unmentionable (Massa di Requiem).

On the other hand, I still adore Personal Stories despite all their imperfections, but that is probably my secret theme player side showing (don't tell Avi).

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subochre said:

Maybe I'm just biased against Kingsport, but honestly, its Allies are the only small-card content I have much interest in.  Okay, Ancient Language, Credit Rating, Makeup Kit, and the pay-to-refresh weapons are kind of cool, but most of the cards seem either cheap (Eltdown Shards, Crystal of the Elder Things, Livre d'Ivon), redundant (most of the skills and spells), or unmentionable (Massa di Requiem).

On the other hand, I still adore Personal Stories despite all their imperfections, but that is probably my secret theme player side showing (don't tell Avi).

::laughter:. I won't, although I kinda miss his haunting presence here.

Anyway, Messa da Requiem is really… bleargh.

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 I like what Julia has said about KS at this point and I'd like to add also to the fact that rifts are absolutely-game-breakingly-brutal if they open.  Every time we've allowed a rift to open in a game (no matter what expansions we have) it will literally screw up the entire investigation and game.  To restate what Julia's already said, paying attention to KS is almost mandatory while depending on deck dilution, IH or DH can be almost completely ignored.

Another poster made a comment about how monsters can never spawn in KS.  While this is technically true because no gates can open there, there ARE mythos cards that release monsters into locations in KS (not too many?).  Couple that with the chance that a flyer or aquatic can sneak up on your in KS, it is generally accepted as unwise to send a completely stripped investigator to KS (by stripped, I mean with virtually no items).  We've found that in AH/KS pure games it's best to rotate investigators through KS instead of confining one to KS as is often mentioned here.

 

To get this thread back on topic, I really like the idea of POD content for AH.  A lot of us don't have access to some of the AO reprints (think new Yig) in a finely printed AO card.  While it's fun to adapt the rules, it adds so much flavor to the game to have the actual card sitting there.  I do realize that there are definitely ways to obtain these cards.  But it currently involves more work and time than I am able to commit to this hobby.  I'd go as far to say that FFG could release an expansion that their Arkham Nights promotions along with a set of scenarios and probably have several customers, provided they were adding some new content along with that (new investigator cards or specific editions to the mythos deck?).

 

I've also often fancied an expansion of monsters that require 2+ investigators to take down.  Of course, you would have to add rules to this, but a few more rules for AH wouldn't be an issue at all because of how many there already are in this game.  Monsters that roamed the board which had scaled down properties of an AO would be an incredible experience.  As an example, the DH could be 'adapted' to serve this purpose!

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What I’m getting from all this…is what I’ve always gotten from this since Kingsport’s release: some of us really like it, some of us really don’t, and it has very little to do with the actual operation of Kingsport, and more with how a player plays the game.

Kingsport does what it does seamlessly, undiluted, every time. Dunwich and Innsmouth may sleep, but Kingsport will keep chugging at those rifts, waiting for the Investigators to come and do something about it. Or perhaps they won’t, and Kingsport will fulfill its purpose, giving the Ancient One another outlet for Doom Tokens. Obviously this doesn’t interest everyone, but that doesn’t affect the unerring operation of Kingsport one way or the other.

As an example for comparison, the Black Goat’s Cult/Corruption mechanic does NOT work unless you use its Herald, and I just don’t see that many people championing the expansion. Meanwhile, Kingsport has many fans, which proves to me that it works perfectly fine. So if you are one of the critics, I completely accept and understand your opinion…but then I would invite you to just leave Kingsport alone. gran_risa.gif

And I REALLY want a Yig Expansion! cool.gif

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That is a fair point about Kingsport and how the rift mechanic is dilution proof.  Monsters almost always move, which means rifts are always at risk of advancing.  I also concede that the views of Kingsport depend on how someone derives enjoyment within the game.  If you like gearing up and killing monsters, then your not going to want to spend much time in Kingsport its self.

I think that the only real downside of Kingsport is that an investigator does not need to *do* anything awesome in Kingsport.  My friends and I joke about punching a gate closed when you use a fight check to close a gate.  Closing a rift is just drawing an encounter card and flipping tokens.  Not much of a chance of failure.  They may have to do something awesome in Innsmouth or in Dunwich, but closing a rift does not have any sort of roll.  You do not get a 'rift token' the way you get a gate token.  There is a pretty big but indirect stick and not a whole lot of carrot, and almost no excitement. 

Add just a bit more carrot and Kingsport gets a whole lot more interesting.

Also on the plus side, Kingsport probably plays pretty **** well with the other big boards.  The Vortex mechanic feeds the terror level based on monsters.  If a rift opens up in Dunwich or Innsmouth, you kind of need to close it 'right the **** now'.  An open rift in Innsmouth at Devils Reef or Y'na-nthlei that moves is going to feed the vortex directly.  That means its feeding the Doom Track, the Terror Track (rift movement), and the monster feeds the Terror track and Deep One uprising via Vortex.  And if your crazy enough to be playing with the King in Yellow herald, your also adding Yellow Sign markers every time a Vortex gets fed.

To be clear, there is a hell of alot to like about Kingsport and what it can add to a game, but it does feel too disconnected from the core appeal of the game (killing lovecraftian monsters and managing the doom track)

END COMMUNICATION

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Going back to the main question, I'd like to see AH go in a new direction.  In many ways adding a new big box or small box expansion now would be like the same but more. Not a bad thing per se, indeed, more is better, but still… 

Perhaps an expansion that purposefully didn't work with the other expansions would be exciting.  A kind of Phase 2 set of expansions that perhaps probed the Other Worlds in some wonderful way - Let's go to R'lyeh and fight Cthulhu there! Let's get lost in the Dreamlands on a board so big it was the AH board that looked like an add-on! Maybe we could play bad guys too, or be monsters, or be wizards that could control monsters as our minions!

"cough" Ahem, well.  I was just throwing out randomness there, not actual considered options. But you see what I mean right? A game changer. That would be cool.

cool.gif
K xx

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