Biggs vs ion cannons

[radiskull 39]

 I'm confident we'll get a FAQ before Worlds.  Hopefully this week.

[KommissarK 209]

Well, the FAQ answers it:

Q: Does Biggs Darklighter’s pilot ability
require an attacker to use its primary
weapon against Biggs, even if the attacker
could use a secondary weapon against
another ship?
A: Yes. If possible, the attacker must target Biggs
instead of any other ship. If the attacker has more
than one weapon available, it must use a weapon
that can target Biggs.

 

[Chairborne 0]

Which, if I read the scenario correctly, the Ion Cannon cannot target Biggs due to range so the pilot that slept with their Mothers gets blasted and not Biggs.

[Parakitor 5,654]

drkjedi35 said:

"Other friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted by attacks if the attacker could target you instead."

The "you" is Biggs.  It doesn't specify primary or secondary weapons.  If Biggs can be targeted (by any means) you cannot target anyone else if that ship is within Range 1 of Biggs.  Declare Target is the first step in the Combat Phase.

The question you would have to ask yourself when declaring a target is "Can Biggs be targeted?"  If the answer is "Yes, if I use my Proton Torpedoes." then you need ask yourself "Is Biggs within Range 1 of the ship I want to attack?"  If the answer is "Yes."  Then you cannot target the ship you want to target. 

Roy

Well, I think you definitely grasped the intent of the designer(s) on this question. Good show. I'm glad we have an actual ruling now, with the FAQ.

[drkjedi35 46]

Thanks!  I got some right, but I got some wrong.  This is one I felt really strong about though.

Roy

[dbmeboy 807]

Yeah, I'm not sure I like the ruling on this one.  For now, it's not a huge deal as the only secondary weapon you could be forced to use is the ion cannon.  I think it becomes problematic if there's ever a single-use secondary weapon with a different firing arc that could set up the same situation though.

[Major Mishap 33]

drkjedi35 said:

Thanks!  I got some right, but I got some wrong.  This is one I felt really strong about though.

Roy

I got them all right, simply by just reading whats written

[kingbobb 159]

KommissarK said:

Well, the FAQ answers it:

Q: Does Biggs Darklighter’s pilot ability
require an attacker to use its primary
weapon against Biggs, even if the attacker
could use a secondary weapon against
another ship?
A: Yes. If possible, the attacker must target Biggs
instead of any other ship. If the attacker has more
than one weapon available, it must use a weapon
that can target Biggs.

 

KommissarK said:

Well, the FAQ answers it:

Q: Does Biggs Darklighter’s pilot ability
require an attacker to use its primary
weapon against Biggs, even if the attacker
could use a secondary weapon against
another ship?
A: Yes. If possible, the attacker must target Biggs
instead of any other ship. If the attacker has more
than one weapon available, it must use a weapon
that can target Biggs.

 

The FAQ nearly doesn't help…it literally reads that if Biggs is in the attacker's primary weapon firing arc, it can ONLY attack Biggs, where Biggs' ability says only that the ship cannot target other friendly ships at range 1 from Biggs if it can also target Biggs. 

The FAQ literally says that any ship with an Ion Cannon that can target Biggs can only attack Biggs, regardless of the range requirement.  Since they aren't saying that Biggs' ability is incorrect, I don't think that's what they mean.  But at least they're being consistent in writing rules that leave more questions to be answered.

[Natesroom 2]

So you think they should rewrite the FAQ answer?

The FAQ says if they are trying to use Proton Torpedos on someone else and Biggs is within range one of the other ship (and within the firing arc) then they would not be allowed to use their secondary weapon and must fire with their primary one at biggs.

[doctormungmung 49]

kingbobb said:

 

The FAQ nearly doesn't help…it literally reads that if Biggs is in the attacker's primary weapon firing arc, it can ONLY attack Biggs, where Biggs' ability says only that the ship cannot target other friendly ships at range 1 from Biggs if it can also target Biggs. 

The FAQ literally says that any ship with an Ion Cannon that can target Biggs can only attack Biggs, regardless of the range requirement.  Since they aren't saying that Biggs' ability is incorrect, I don't think that's what they mean.  But at least they're being consistent in writing rules that leave more questions to be answered.

Actually, this is just a clarification, and not an errata.  Thus the text on Biggs card still holds true.  Thus, the other ship still must be within range 1 of Biggs for you to have to target Biggs instead.  All this is saying is that if ship X is out of your front arc, but within Ion cannon range, and Biggs is in your front arc at range 3, and Biggs is withing range 1 of ship X, you have to shoot at Biggs with your primary weapon.  At least that's how I read it.

[kingbobb 159]

doctormungmung said:

kingbobb said:

 

 

The FAQ nearly doesn't help…it literally reads that if Biggs is in the attacker's primary weapon firing arc, it can ONLY attack Biggs, where Biggs' ability says only that the ship cannot target other friendly ships at range 1 from Biggs if it can also target Biggs. 

The FAQ literally says that any ship with an Ion Cannon that can target Biggs can only attack Biggs, regardless of the range requirement.  Since they aren't saying that Biggs' ability is incorrect, I don't think that's what they mean.  But at least they're being consistent in writing rules that leave more questions to be answered.

 

 

Actually, this is just a clarification, and not an errata.  Thus the text on Biggs card still holds true.  Thus, the other ship still must be within range 1 of Biggs for you to have to target Biggs instead.  All this is saying is that if ship X is out of your front arc, but within Ion cannon range, and Biggs is in your front arc at range 3, and Biggs is withing range 1 of ship X, you have to shoot at Biggs with your primary weapon.  At least that's how I read it.

That's how I read it too….but that's not what it says.  It literally says "any other ship…"  Taken literally, now, someone could run with that to ignore the at range 1 part of Biggs' ability.  Because it's in a FAQ, it supercedes whatever's on the card.  I think it shows what the intent of the ability is, but because of the wording they used, it opens up another debate as to how the ability actually works.

And it is getting Biggs' ability wrong.  You don't have to attack Biggs.  You just can't attack any other ship at range 1 of Biggs if you could also attack Biggs.  You can attack any other ship beyond range 1 of Biggs.  It's this second part that the FAQ is potentially messing up

[magadizer 617]

 The FAQ question asks if you are required to use your Primary weapon on Biggs if you can use your secondary weapon on someone else. What about the other way around?

What if you have two ships in your firing arc, one at range three (Pilot A), and one at range one (Pilot B). And further, Biggs is sitting just outside the firing arc, at range 1 to both Pilot B and to yourself. But biggs is at least range 2 or more from Pilot A. I think the FAQ is saying, you cannot target Pilot B with your Primary weapon, but must instead target Biggs with the Ion cannon. What about Pilot A however? He should not be triggering Biggs's effect, so you should therefore have a choice of attacking pilot A with Primary, or Biggs with Ion cannon. Only Pilot B should be "safe."

Right?

[drkjedi35 46]

magadizer said:

 The FAQ question asks if you are required to use your Primary weapon on Biggs if you can use your secondary weapon on someone else. What about the other way around?

What if you have two ships in your firing arc, one at range three (Pilot A), and one at range one (Pilot B). And further, Biggs is sitting just outside the firing arc, at range 1 to both Pilot B and to yourself. But biggs is at least range 2 or more from Pilot A. I think the FAQ is saying, you cannot target Pilot B with your Primary weapon, but must instead target Biggs with the Ion cannon. What about Pilot A however? He should not be triggering Biggs's effect, so you should therefore have a choice of attacking pilot A with Primary, or Biggs with Ion cannon. Only Pilot B should be "safe."

Right?

That is exactly right.  Since Pilot B is within range 1 of Biggs and Biggs can be targeted, you must either target Biggs or Pilot A since he is not affected by Biggs's ability.

 

Roy

[dvang 10]

Correct. Bigg's ability only applies to him and friendly allies within range 1 of him. If you target an ally that isn't within range 1 of Biggs, then you are not forced to shoot at Biggs instead.

[kingbobb 159]

dvang said:

Correct. Bigg's ability only applies to him and friendly allies within range 1 of him. If you target an ally that isn't within range 1 of Biggs, then you are not forced to shoot at Biggs instead.

Except that's not what the FAQ says, regardless of how the question is worded.  The FAQ says "If possible, the attacker must target Biggs instead of any other ship."  It should say "If possible, the attacker must target Biggs instead of any other ship within range of Biggs' ability/at range 1 from Biggs."

[drkjedi35 46]

kingbobb said:

dvang said:

 

Correct. Bigg's ability only applies to him and friendly allies within range 1 of him. If you target an ally that isn't within range 1 of Biggs, then you are not forced to shoot at Biggs instead.

 

 

Except that's not what the FAQ says, regardless of how the question is worded.  The FAQ says "If possible, the attacker must target Biggs instead of any other ship."  It should say "If possible, the attacker must target Biggs instead of any other ship within range of Biggs' ability/at range 1 from Biggs."

You're right.  That is how it should read.  But I'm going to assume that you are not saying that Biggs card should be ignored and anyone who can attack Biggs must attack him no matter what the range.

Roy

[kingbobb 159]

drkjedi35 said:

 

You're right.  That is how it should read.  But I'm going to assume that you are not saying that Biggs card should be ignored and anyone who can attack Biggs must attack him no matter what the range.

Roy

Right, I'm not saying that.  But I do recognize that someone else, more stubborn and wanting to squeeze some edge out of the game (and the fun) might say that.  And I don't want to face those people without the FAQ getting corrected.

[borithan 237]

magadizer said:

 True. It's rare enough though that I suspect if it did come up that the testers might have assumed the meaning was plain or obvious, even if it isn't.

It's FFG. Of course they have non-precise and ambigous rules!

FFG doesn't write their rules tightly. Normally this means you have to try and interpret the spirit and intention of the rules. To me, this would mean Biggs doesn't force you to use ion cannons if you have them, as that doesn't make thematic sense. It represents his bad luck to be one of the first shot down in the first film… not Imperial pilots seeing Biggs and going "God Darn it! It's Biggs. Everyone FIRE!" Forcing someone to use a weapon to shoot him if he is outside the fire arc feels more like that than his bad luck.

Oh, looks like the FAQ actually says you are… don't like that.