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The_Brown_Bomber

Overlapping Bases Rule needs tweeking. I suggest simultaneous movement with staggered action selection.

34 posts in this topic

Practice helps.

The first couple games I played as the Empire looked like my squad had just left the cantina after a night of heavy drinking.  With some experience you can plan moves better and anticipate enemy movements.  I've yet to find forcing collisions as a good plan though.  You need several Ties to block various angles of escape, and then to get ships into thos positions typically puts them at odd angles where they can't do anything anyways.  I'd rather set them up to focus fire on a ship than try to make the enemy lose an action.

As for the greater skilled pilot losing his action as opposed to the rookies.  This vexxed me for awhile, but I actually came across a thematic explanation that has worked for explaining it to others.  The fighters are all moving in space at the same time, we just take turns moving them in the game for simplicity.  The rookie pilots are dedicating themselves to an action before they really know whats going on…they aren't experienced enough to think on the fly (no pun intended).  The experienced pilots are reacting to the situation presented to them during the battle, so they can react to other pilots actions. So far this explains the turn order system in place.

Academy Tie moves and picks focus hoping someone will fall into his firing arc so he can shoot them.  Wedge either ends up with a firing solution on the tie and picks focus/target lock or end up in the Tie's firing arc and picks focus to survive the blast.

Rookie Xwing moves and picks focus as he has no idea if anyone will be in his arc or he'll be in someone else's arc.  Mauler can then move and decide if he needs to roll out of the Rookie's arc, or into a firing position, or if rolling won't help, he can take an evade, or if he has a firing solution he can go with focus.

Now for the collisions, just expand the logic a bit.  The rookie/academy pilot are dedicating themselves to a move and action.  They have no concern about who's behind them, beside them, above them, or behind them.  They are flying and deciding on an action and really hopeing it will be the right thing to do.  Wedge/Mauler are also flying towards that same position and waiting until they line up a shot to decide on what action to perform when suddenly the collision alarms go off and an enemy ship flies right in front of them.  Instead of target locking, rolling, evading, or focusing, the experienced pilot is forced to perform an evasive manuever to avoid collision.  The manuever puts them in a different location than they expected and made a plan for.  It also means instead of cooly gliding into an attack position and getting a target lock they had to do everything to avoid the collision.  The rookie was already dedicated to his move and didn't have the piloting skill to react to and avoid the collision, so the more experienced pilot had to make the sacrifice to avoid the rookie.

Much like that rookie high school driver who ran the stop sign because he was too busy texting, you the experienced adult driver who was paying attention to traffic needs to avoid the collision instead of continuing through the intersection and changing the radio station as you had planned.  The high school kid continued driving as he had planned and continued texting without any idea that he was nearly T-boned for running a stop sign.

Ta-da!  Thematic explanation with real life analogy.

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 @ Strombole: Awesome response. I would love to play against you just to see you in action, even if I got whooped. Sounds like it would be a sight to behold!

@ kmanweiss: Excellent analogy and thematic explanation. Gotta say that if it were between losing my action or dealing damage to both me and my opponent, I'd choose to lose an action every time. Although I guess I can see where other people would just like to have that option open to them, rather than decided for them.

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kmanweiss said:

Practice helps.

The first couple games I played as the Empire looked like my squad had just left the cantina after a night of heavy drinking.  With some experience you can plan moves better and anticipate enemy movements.  I've yet to find forcing collisions as a good plan though.  You need several Ties to block various angles of escape, and then to get ships into thos positions typically puts them at odd angles where they can't do anything anyways.  I'd rather set them up to focus fire on a ship than try to make the enemy lose an action.

As for the greater skilled pilot losing his action as opposed to the rookies.  This vexxed me for awhile, but I actually came across a thematic explanation that has worked for explaining it to others.  The fighters are all moving in space at the same time, we just take turns moving them in the game for simplicity.  The rookie pilots are dedicating themselves to an action before they really know whats going on…they aren't experienced enough to think on the fly (no pun intended).  The experienced pilots are reacting to the situation presented to them during the battle, so they can react to other pilots actions. So far this explains the turn order system in place.

Academy Tie moves and picks focus hoping someone will fall into his firing arc so he can shoot them.  Wedge either ends up with a firing solution on the tie and picks focus/target lock or end up in the Tie's firing arc and picks focus to survive the blast.

Rookie Xwing moves and picks focus as he has no idea if anyone will be in his arc or he'll be in someone else's arc.  Mauler can then move and decide if he needs to roll out of the Rookie's arc, or into a firing position, or if rolling won't help, he can take an evade, or if he has a firing solution he can go with focus.

Now for the collisions, just expand the logic a bit.  The rookie/academy pilot are dedicating themselves to a move and action.  They have no concern about who's behind them, beside them, above them, or behind them.  They are flying and deciding on an action and really hopeing it will be the right thing to do.  Wedge/Mauler are also flying towards that same position and waiting until they line up a shot to decide on what action to perform when suddenly the collision alarms go off and an enemy ship flies right in front of them.  Instead of target locking, rolling, evading, or focusing, the experienced pilot is forced to perform an evasive manuever to avoid collision.  The manuever puts them in a different location than they expected and made a plan for.  It also means instead of cooly gliding into an attack position and getting a target lock they had to do everything to avoid the collision.  The rookie was already dedicated to his move and didn't have the piloting skill to react to and avoid the collision, so the more experienced pilot had to make the sacrifice to avoid the rookie.

Much like that rookie high school driver who ran the stop sign because he was too busy texting, you the experienced adult driver who was paying attention to traffic needs to avoid the collision instead of continuing through the intersection and changing the radio station as you had planned.  The high school kid continued driving as he had planned and continued texting without any idea that he was nearly T-boned for running a stop sign.

Ta-da!  Thematic explanation with real life analogy.

impressive explaination. most impressive. it all makes sense. thanx!

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 I love the rules as written. 

It makes sense that when moving into the space occupied by another ship a pilot has to avoid a collision, thus spending ther attention and losing their action. 

More importantly, from an abstract rules perspective, the rule is simple and elegant. Some of the suggestions made in this thread are pretty complicated and cumbersome.

I love using cheap ties to swarm the likely path of an expensive x-wing pilots likely movement path. The alliance can sometimes do similar maneuvers.

The point is: it really matters how you move. Risk management is the whole game.

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Daveydavedave said:

 I love the rules as written. 

It makes sense that when moving into the space occupied by another ship a pilot has to avoid a collision, thus spending ther attention and losing their action. 

More importantly, from an abstract rules perspective, the rule is simple and elegant. Some of the suggestions made in this thread are pretty complicated and cumbersome.

I love using cheap ties to swarm the likely path of an expensive x-wing pilots likely movement path. The alliance can sometimes do similar maneuvers.

The point is: it really matters how you move. Risk management is the whole game.

 

yes. i can see now that cheap guys is a gr8 option for u if u r going to maximize the rules. quite clever work by the designers.

 

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If you can use the ships themselves, with the threat of collision as a weapon, then it changes the gameplay significantly. It favors the Empire significantly, as they have more ships and are more maneuverable.

Also, with the ordered movement, you would somehow need to keep track of which ships had been collided with earlier in the movement. As it is now, it only concerns the active ship.

The simple fact is that it encourages more and better tactical maneuvering if overlap only (and negatively) affects the actively moving ship.

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I think you guys need to stop thinking about it as a collision.  The word collision is no where in the rulebook.  This is just the rules for overlapping bases.  Nothing more.  This game hasn't even been on the street for a month yet and you're trying to change the rules.  Please, try playing the game for a while with the rules that came in the box.  The more you play, the better you get at choosing maneuvers, and the occasional base overlap won't be that big of a deal to you anymore.

Roy

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