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Warboss Krag

Another Reason Why Warfare Is Preferable to 40K

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It's also on relative in playable games.  40k likes to think they can play at any point level, but anything less than 1000 points and preferrably 1500+ points are where your playable armies are at.  You would spend 3x the amount than you would on a 300 point Dust force.  And the 3 books (you don't really need unless you play the SSU), still compare cumulatively to one of the new GW codices.

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Warboss Krag said:

Wow. My sympathies, man. That sucks that the Dust heavies are essentially $52 where you are! To be a comparable price to the US, they'd be about 23 pounds… And you say Dust troops cost more than $20 USD per box? Again, that sucks!

But, the 40K tanks you mention cost about $55-60 USD here (Leman Russ, Predator)…

Everything is more expensive in the UK, no matter which game you play. I'm about to order CB Hades from the US (because it STILL isn't out in the UK as of this post), and the US price of the book plus international shipping equals the UK price of the book minus domestic shipping. The only reason why I don't order more stuff from the US is because I want to support UK retailers (as insane, on one level, as that might be).

In Dust's defence, at least we don't have to suffer the Annual Arbitrary Price Hike of Doom that 40K players do. The SSU stuff is a bit more expensive, but the Allies and Axis boxes, as well as the Warfare books, are still the same price. FFG's digital policy is also a lot better, publishing PDFs that are just digital copies of the paper book, without unnecessary extras.

However, in GW's defence, they actually announce dates for things and then release on those dates! Their stores are also stocked really well (in London at least) and I can always find the paint I need when I walk into one.

 

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Also don't forget that the GW codices are going to be way more expensieve that the DW books, for the price of the current csm codex I could get myself both the rule and zverograd if I wanted and still have cash to spare.

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Yeah, the codex costs are what caused me to back away from GW when I was looking for a wargame.  I don't mind them making money, but I want to play it at hame with my wife, so that means two armies, codexs, a rulebook, and easilly $500 plus inital cost…  not counting terrain…

Dust?  Really, not that bad a cost.

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Agreed on all counts, particularly the codex prices and the 'Annual Price Hike of Doom' (I like that phrase!). However, GW is at least better than Battlefront (Flames of War): They want $50 USD @ for their army books, and the majority of 'em only cover one army during one campaign…and then the binding is such poor quality that the books actually fall apart with minimal use! At least GW books seem to last (lot of friends who play Fantasy, and their books have taken years of pounding).

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Warboss Krag said:

Agreed on all counts, particularly the codex prices and the 'Annual Price Hike of Doom' (I like that phrase!). However, GW is at least better than Battlefront (Flames of War): They want $50 USD @ for their army books, and the majority of 'em only cover one army during one campaign…and then the binding is such poor quality that the books actually fall apart with minimal use! At least GW books seem to last (lot of friends who play Fantasy, and their books have taken years of pounding).

Actually battle front is tons better than gw, i am referencing my Eastern Front book for this and i can go over my North Africa book if need be but gw is currently charging 50USD for the Chaos Marine book,  which only contains 1 army list, and is cool that it's in full color now but that's about all the appeal of it. I was lucky that my FLGS charges 35 for the chaos book and i picked it up. Dust stuff is awesome there seeing as how i got the core book for 30USD and the two campaign books for 15 USD each, that's besides the point.

My Eastern front book has been with me for a little over a year now and is still in good condition, none of the spine issues people talk of, everything is nice and organized in it. and for 50USD you get 17 diffferent german army lists [ and 12 of which have variants for Heer or SS] 2 FInnish army lists 3 Hungarian   2 italian 3 Romanian and 9 Russian army lists for a total of 34 different army lists that focus on the mid war east euro theatre.

the smaller books that have 'only one army' in them cost about 32 USD normaly and actually have [referencing my blood guts and glory book from memory] about five german lists and four american lists in it, and have no binding issues what so ever.

 

not trying to fanboy battle front, just making corrections.

 

now as to how i feel about Dust Warfare as compared to Warhammer 40,000 is that the game is a much simpler one to pick up and start playing, it is generally cheaper [my store having the recon gren box for 12 USD compared to the Cadian Shock troop box for 21,.25 USD and the new SSU Superheavy for 30USD compared to the 37 USD leman russ]. I find Dust figures much easier to paint and a lot more fun to paint than games workshop figures. The only downside is that there are less players then warhammer 40,000 at the store and it's a little hard to fully understand the game when people also try to teach house rules to you at the same time, which helps nothing. [i.E. if bringing a HEavy Panzer Walker one must inform the opponent before hand so they can bring their's or gear the list to take it down, or that Vehicles can't see or be seen through buildings regardless of height or intactness of said building] but even with that i find Dust Warfare to be a much better system than games workshops flagship. the only major problem with the game being that the company is obviously marketing Tactics with their release schedule rather than Warfare but I will see if i can get people to do the board game so they don't get all pissy when icarus comes out after all the shiny new flyers have been out for a month

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As someone who just spent a truckload of money on Battletech, I'm really sensitive about easy of entry for new players.

I mean really.  I love Battletech.  Always have.  Always will.

Can't get a &*@^#^& player to save my life.  Wife plays it with me about once a blue moon just to be nice.  She never seemed to have much fun, though.

Dust?  Much easier to get into.  She found it fun, if a bit high on the setup costs (in time, not money).

 

After getting the battletech set, cost me about $60 for the boxed set, about average of $45 for each of the books I grabbed, and about $20 for two packs of minis for giant stompy robots.  That comes out to about… $300 after all is said and done.  

The cost of entry?  Just explaining the sheet for each robot is enough to make people cry and curl up in a fetal position.  It's not pretty.

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I also find the Dust system (both tactics and warfare) far superior to 40k.  I still have a fairly large Khorne CSM army, and I pretty much refuse to play it anymore, and definitely wont be buying any new models/codices.  The price cost to me is ridiculous, $50 to buy the new codex?!?!  No thanks!  GW prices are just too expensive, and evey time a new edition comes out you have to buy an $80 rulebook?  

With Dust, the product is much more streamlined and the costs are more reasonable.  I dont mind spending $40 for the core rulebook (especially considering I can get it 35% off online).  Plus, for the cost of the minis I'm getting 2 game systems (tactics and warfare).  Another selling point, I dont have to spend endless hours modeling/priming models.  This is huge for me, as I just hate putting together models.  I dont mind the painting as much, I do it here and there when I have the time, but I can play my Dust models right out of package.  

The last point I'll hit on is the game balance.  Each faction in the Dust universe is fundamentally different, yet fairly balanced.  They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I have never felt any one faction just dominated the battlefield over the other.  I'm sure once FFG releases future factions they will keep this trend going.  That was one of the things I absolutely hated about 40k, I felt that if I didn't play a specific type of list I wasn't going to be competitive. 

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Warboss Krag said:

I hear you. Got into Battletech back when it was Battledroids. Still have my stuff. Actually a neat background, but play is a bit record-intensive…

 

You guys make me happy.  I have everything ever published for Battletech, and a couple thousand miniatures.  But, I digress.

 

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Got a loooooooottttttt of Battletech stuff myself. Primo game in the 1980s. New game isn't that bad, either. The RPG is broken, though; someone should tell the writers that complexity in character design can go way too far.

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Wow…and to think I almost bought in Warhammer Fantasy last monday…

I'm gonna stick to Warfare for now (even though I still have yet to play my first game) for it's price point, the fact that you can play Tactics AND Warfare with the same minis and some, fan-made unit cards for Warfare that are simply awesome, quality minis and support, good flow of new and interesting stuff, low cost "official" scenery, Winter Child! (love that mini hahah)…

When I was looking and the army boxes for WHFB and realised it would cost me hundreds of dollars just to have ONE army going…I said NAY!

I just hope FFG or Dust release a similar game in a fantasy world!

 

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There are the Anastyr models on the Dust Games main website.  Right now, Paolo says they are only a line of resin minis and no rules are expected anytime in the near future, but it still leaves the door open…

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Warfare replaced easily 40K as my main wargame, and frankly I dont like GW policies towards its users a bit (not to mention their prices!). FFG, on the other hand, seems more concerned about giving a good player experience and feedback, and in the end that makes the game balanced and fun to play. I really like Warfare and I hope it grows a lot.

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Those of you guys who have trouble getting players into battletech should check out the new quickstrike rules. Much much much simpler and still capture the battletech feel and uses e same minis.

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