Can Gavin give a focus token to someone who already has their own focus token?

[El_Tonio 103]

So, for example, let's say a ship went before him and performed a focus action (and still has it's focus token). If Gaven goes and performs his focus action can he give his focus token to the ship that previously did a focus action and currently has a focus token on it?

The rules say, " a ship cannot perform the same action more than once during a single game round (not even when the action is a “free action”).

But, it does not say on Gaven's card that transferring the focus token is an action.

So, it seems to me this is a scenario where a single ship could have more than one focus token on it (for example, it could use one for attack, and the other for defense… or both for defense if it is attacked by multiple ships).

What do you think?
 

[drkjedi35 46]

I don't think that placing a focus token on another ship is considered taking a focus action.  Therefore I see no reason why a ship should not be able to have more than one focus token on it at any given time.

Roy

[magadizer 617]

I don't think it's absolutely clear cut, but I would personally vote no, you can't double up. I think they should clarify with an official ruling, but I think that the rule against performing the same action twice should trump the player special ability.

Likewise with "Dutch" Vander's free target lock. You can't have two target locks on two opponents (or two on the same target!) at the same time.

[dbmeboy 807]

 There is no rule preventing multiple focus tokens (or evade tokens or stress tokens) on one ship. If you have a way to give another of those tokens outside of using the action twice, then you can do it.

[player1540319 0]

"More than once during a game round"  It is just the fact of using it 2x in a game round that you cant do.  It has nothing to do with getting during your action phase.

[magadizer 617]

 Looking at the rules again it seems even less clear cut but I think I still say no double focus. There is a distinction between "Performing an Action" and "Spending the Token."

"Performing the Action" is definitely forbidden from having the same thing done twice, even if it is a "free" action. This step would be better named "Choosing an action" but there it is.

"Spending the Token" is not specifically limited to one per type per round. (Probably because you aren't supposed to get two of the same type to spend in the first place.)

Since "Performing an Action" really means selecting a token, I say that you can't get the same one twice in a round, even if it was not done as an action.

Nevertheless, I do agree that there is ambiguity enough that a clarification would be in order, and I see the other side has a strong case as well.

[drkjedi35 46]

Actions are performed in the "Perform Action" step in the "Activation Phase".  Spending a Focus Token happens in the "Modify Attack Dice" or "Modify Defense Dice" step in the "Combat Phase".  Garven Dreis' ability takes place in the "Combat Phase" when a Focus Token is spent.  That spent token can be placed on any other ship in Range 1-2.  This is not taking an action (as it is the "Combat Phase" and not the "Activation Phase").  So there is nothing preventing a ship from having more than one Focus Token on it at any given time.

Roy

[El_Tonio 103]

magadizer said:

Likewise with "Dutch" Vander's free target lock. You can't have two target locks on two opponents (or two on the same target!) at the same time.

The difference is that the rules specifically state that "each ship capable of performing this action [target lock] can maintain only one target lock (i.e., each ship can only have one blue target lock token assigned to it)."  See p. 9.

There is no such restriction for focus other than you can't take it as an action more than once.  But, I don't think Gavin's ability counts as an action so this seems ok to me. 

[magadizer 617]

Like I said, there is a solid case on your side. I don't think it makes a big difference either way however.

You have to be in a few very specific situations in terms of pilot skill and choice of atack targets in order for spending two focus tokens to matter anyways. (Or to be hit by cluster missles or several enemies.)

[drkjedi35 46]

magadizer said:

Like I said, there is a solid case on your side. I don't think it makes a big difference either way however.

You have to be in a few very specific situations in terms of pilot skill and choice of atack targets in order for spending two focus tokens to matter anyways. (Or to be hit by cluster missles or several enemies.)

But it does make a big difference.  If Garven Dreis is in the squad, there will be multiple situations where a ship may have the opportunity to gain and use multiple Focus Tokens.  Every Combat Phase there is a chance that he will be able to give an extra token to someone.  And if that person is in a position to both attack and defend then 2 Focus Tokens is a big deal.  For the Rebels, this happens more often than you would expect.

Roy

[magadizer 617]

OK, you make a decent argument.

Nevertheless, to use this ability you are forced to play with a guy called "Garven Dreis," so that makes you a loser from the get-go.

 

[KarmikazeKidd 1]

 Mags, you lose the logic battle. But you win on style points with your most recent comment. Hence, I declare a draw. 

[drkjedi35 46]

You guys are a riot! LOL

Roy

[Xploiter 0]

Page 5: The game Round has four phases: palnning, activation, combat, and end.

page 9.  a Ship cannot perform the same action more then once during a single game round (not even when the action is a free action.

Lets take what they put in bold seperate.

 "perform the same action more then once" what is focus? Its an action. What does perform mean? Carry out, accomplish, or fulfill (an action, task, or function). 

Let me dumb it down.

Its clear to me you can only carry out one focus per game round. Now do I have to define any of the smaller words even more so?

 

 

 

[radiskull 39]

Xploiter said:

Its clear to me you can only carry out one focus per game round. Now do I have to define any of the smaller words even more so?

Being more of a blowhard doesn't make you more right.  Receiving a focus token isn't the same thing as taking a focus action.

[drkjedi35 46]

Xploiter said:

Page 5: The game Round has four phases: palnning, activation, combat, and end.

page 9.  a Ship cannot perform the same action more then once during a single game round (not even when the action is a free action.

Lets take what they put in bold seperate.

 "perform the same action more then once" what is focus? Its an action. What does perform mean? Carry out, accomplish, or fulfill (an action, task, or function). 

Let me dumb it down.

Its clear to me you can only carry out one focus per game round. Now do I have to define any of the smaller words even more so?

 

First it seems you need to calm down and think about what you're saying.  Second, show me where on Garven Dreis' card you see the word action. 

The focus action that you're talking about happens during the activation phase.  Actions can only be performed during the Activation Phase.  Garven Dreis' special ability takes place during the Combat Phase (since that is the only time you can spend a focus token).  Therefore, it is not an action.

Roy

[KarmikazeKidd 1]

Xploiter said:

 

Let me dumb it down.

 

 

 

 

Indeed.

[Xploiter 0]

Youll find Im a highly sarcastic guy. If I get strong feelings towards something youll hear me sing the barney song as I try to smash your fac- err- xwiing models…. 

All do serieousness, I can very easily see this being considered a free action, however as of this time, we could argue back and forth about what is or what is not the intended meaning is. Ill wait 24 hours to see if anyone else sees it the way I see it before changing it on the thread. I will make changes to the thread to reflect the situation

[Parakitor 5,654]

 Yeah, Xploiter, I was kind of shocked to see displayed on your FAQ that Garven's ability can't grant a focus token to an ally who already has it. I always think of it as giving a token not an action. And for what it's worth, my wife totally agrees with me

[Budgernaut 6,255]

 Well, just in case somebody does side with xploiter on this one, I want to make sure there is one more voice saying that Garven gives a token and not a free action, so he can give a focus token to somebody who already has it.

[Xploiter 0]

Parakitor said:

 Yeah, Xploiter, I was kind of shocked to see displayed on your FAQ that Garven's ability can't grant a focus token to an ally who already has it. I always think of it as giving a token not an action. And for what it's worth, my wife totally agrees with me

Parakitor said:

 Yeah, Xploiter, I was kind of shocked to see displayed on your FAQ that Garven's ability can't grant a focus token to an ally who already has it. I always think of it as giving a token not an action. And for what it's worth, my wife totally agrees with me

I went with what I thought was right, unfortinitly I play allot of rebels and would prefer to rule against myself, as it makes the game more enjoyable when you beat your opponenet and he realizes you gave him the benefit of the doubt (doesnt happen often, but still a fun game losing though).how do you feel the changes are with the ruling now?

 

[AlKusanagi 21]

I feel that he can indeed GIVE a second token to a ship, but I'd consider the use of a token as an action, so while they could have two, they could only use one.

[Kitran 1]

I ran into this situation tonight. I had 3 TIE's on Garvin and Wedge. Under my interpretation, once Wedge had used his focus on my TIE Adv, he had used it for that combat round and it was discarded. When Garvin took a shot, that triggered the ability and gave Wedge an additional focus token. When I took my next combat turn, my opponent used it to evade a hit.

It wasn't used twice in one combat phase, which is what I think it is meant to avoid. However, for that turn (not just the combat phase) Wedge essentially did have two focus tokens.

[Xhyl 0]

I think we could answer the question by following a logical path :

“Do we permit to give a focus token to a pilot that has already a stress token ?”

If yes then the token is definitively not to be considered as an action.

But I would personally stand for the ‘no’ side on this one.
A red stress token and a green focus token placed next to each other would certainly hurt my eyes … as would 2 green focus tokens.

 

[DagobahDave 1,621]

There are no actions involved anywhere in that situation.

Garven's pilot ability is not an action.

Receiving a focus token from him is not an action.

Spending a focus token doesn't even happen in the Activation phase. You spend focus tokens during the Combat phase, during steps 3 and 5. Spending tokens during the Combat phase are not actions.

Stress tokens don't prevent you from spending focus tokens, because spending focus tokens are neither red maneuvers nor actions.

Yes, Garven can give a focus token to a ship that already has one, and a ship with a stress token can still spend focus tokens during the Combat phase because there's nothing in the rules that forbids it.