Destroy Magic vs Counterspell

[Lord Kalten 3]

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=29&esem=4

Destroy Magic: Cast at the start or end of your turn.  No character, including yourself, may cast a Spell or use any Magic Object until the start of the your next turn.

Counterspell: Cast as required. Negate the effects of any Spell just cast, including the Command Spell

Hi all,

There is one question that the most up to date FAQ and the revised rules do not clearly state and I would like clarification on it. 

In most games, a Counterspell will counter any spell before it takes form.  It is a fast spell and would normally be argued to be able to counter ANY spell being case.

However, the wording on the card suggests that the Counterspell in Talisman works differently because the spell you wish to counter has already taken form and the Counterspell is invoked to negate the effects of the spell just cast which is now already a valid active spell.

Furthermore, the Golden Rules also add strength to this argument:

4th Edition Rules (Page 15):

Golden Rules
The following rules are Talisman’s “Golden Rules,” which
supersede all others.

Can vs. Cannot
In any instance where a card’s effect indicates that a character
cannot perform an action or use an ability (such as casting a
Spell or using an Object), the character cannot do so. In other
words, the forbidding effects of cards override other abilities
and effects. For example, if a card indicates that no Weapons
can be used when fighting a certain creature, the Warrior may
not use any Weapons, despite his ability that allows him to
use two Weapons at the same time.

So essentially, a Destroy Magic spell is cast which takes form disabling the effects of magic and enforced by the Golden Rule of Can vs Cannot taking precedence.  The Counterspell has been argued not to be able to therefore counter Destroy Magic.

What is the correct ruling?

Thanks,

Lord Kalten

 

[Toothless_Night_Fury 103]

Lord Kalten said:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=29&esem=4

Destroy Magic: Cast at the start or end of your turn.  No character, including yourself, may cast a Spell or use any Magic Object until the start of the your next turn.

Counterspell: Cast as required. Negate the effects of any Spell just cast, including the Command Spell

Hi all,

There is one question that the most up to date FAQ and the revised rules do not clearly state and I would like clarification on it. 

In most games, a Counterspell will counter any spell before it takes form.  It is a fast spell and would normally be argued to be able to counter ANY spell being case.

However, the wording on the card suggests that the Counterspell in Talisman works differently because the spell you wish to counter has already taken form and the Counterspell is invoked to negate the effects of the spell just cast which is now already a valid active spell.

Furthermore, the Golden Rules also add strength to this argument:

4th Edition Rules (Page 15):

Golden Rules
The following rules are Talisman’s “Golden Rules,” which
supersede all others.

Can vs. Cannot
In any instance where a card’s effect indicates that a character
cannot perform an action or use an ability (such as casting a
Spell or using an Object), the character cannot do so. In other
words, the forbidding effects of cards override other abilities
and effects. For example, if a card indicates that no Weapons
can be used when fighting a certain creature, the Warrior may
not use any Weapons, despite his ability that allows him to
use two Weapons at the same time.

So essentially, a Destroy Magic spell is cast which takes form disabling the effects of magic and enforced by the Golden Rule of Can vs Cannot taking precedence.  The Counterspell has been argued not to be able to therefore counter Destroy Magic.

What is the correct ruling?

Thanks,

Lord Kalten

 

The correct ruling is as follows:

A Counterspell may be cast to negate the Destroy Magic Spell; any Spell can be Counterspelled. Regarding the Can vs. Cannot: This is true if the Destroy Magic Spell was in effect, but it is not in effect if it is Counterspelled.

Ell.