Expert Handling and Barrel Roll

[dbmeboy 807]

And with the errata to Expert Handling this is now fixed.  Or at least mostly fixed… I think the errata introduces the new problem of having an action instruct you to preform another action without stating that it is a free action…

[magadizer 617]

 It does say Free barrel roll action.

[magadizer 617]

magadizer said:

 It does say Free barrel roll action.

BUT -- you are right that it did not say that. I think they changed it really quickly. I downloaded it right away onto my phone and that version does NOT sat "free" whereas the one I downloaded later does.

 

Sneaky FFG.

[dbmeboy 807]

An errata to the errata… very sneaky. The card will now function in a not-broken manner. I'm ok with that.

[dbmeboy 807]

Another minor note… since it was a significant quibble in this debate: we have official precedent to refer to actions provided by upgrade cards as the [insert Upgrade Name Here] Action in the FAQ.  It refers to the Marksmanship Action.

[radiskull 39]

 So, (and not trying to open a can of worms) without the text change on Expert Handling, Vader WOULD get two barrel rolls because he would be taking 1) a barrel roll action and then (2) the expert handling action.

The new text is unambiguous, but we have some templating that we can go by now.

[Chairborne 0]

radiskull said:

 So, (and not trying to open a can of worms) without the text change on Expert Handling, Vader WOULD get two barrel rolls because he would be taking 1) a barrel roll action and then (2) the expert handling action.

The new text is unambiguous, but we have some templating that we can go by now.

I don't understand the purpose of this post. Page 9 makes it clear that a Craft cannot perform the same action twice in a round. The errata only removes any perceived… ahem… loopholes.

[dbmeboy 807]

radiskull said:

 So, (and not trying to open a can of worms) without the text change on Expert Handling, Vader WOULD get two barrel rolls because he would be taking 1) a barrel roll action and then (2) the expert handling action.

The new text is unambiguous, but we have some templating that we can go by now.

Correct, which is why it needed an errata to fix the problem, not a clarification.

[kingbobb 159]

Chairborne said:

radiskull said:

 

 So, (and not trying to open a can of worms) without the text change on Expert Handling, Vader WOULD get two barrel rolls because he would be taking 1) a barrel roll action and then (2) the expert handling action.

The new text is unambiguous, but we have some templating that we can go by now.

 

 

I don't understand the purpose of this post. Page 9 makes it clear that a Craft cannot perform the same action twice in a round. The errata only removes any perceived… ahem… loopholes.

Except it wasn't a perception or a loophole problem. The FAQ states that the card as printed is wrong, because upgrades create new actions.  Expert Handling creates a new Action, Expert Handling, which allows the ship to perform a free Barrel Roll Action…but only because of the change made in the FAQ.  If not for that change, radiskull is exactly correct, as Vadar would be performing an Expert Handling action and then a Barrel Roll Action.  What the FAQ change does is create this sequence:

Vadar: Perform Expert Handling (action choice 1)

Vadar: Perform free action Barrel Roll (from Expert Handling)

Vadar: Perform (any action other than Barrel roll (action choice 2)

 

Previously, Vadar could do this sequence:

Vadar: Perform Expert Handling (action choice 1)

Vadar: Perform Action Choice 2 (any action other than Expert Handling)

 

[Budgernaut 6,255]

kingbobb said:

Chairborne said:

 

radiskull said:

 

 So, (and not trying to open a can of worms) without the text change on Expert Handling, Vader WOULD get two barrel rolls because he would be taking 1) a barrel roll action and then (2) the expert handling action.

The new text is unambiguous, but we have some templating that we can go by now.

 

 

I don't understand the purpose of this post. Page 9 makes it clear that a Craft cannot perform the same action twice in a round. The errata only removes any perceived… ahem… loopholes.

 

 

Except it wasn't a perception or a loophole problem. The FAQ states that the card as printed is wrong, because upgrades create new actions.  Expert Handling creates a new Action, Expert Handling, which allows the ship to perform a free Barrel Roll Action…but only because of the change made in the FAQ.  If not for that change, radiskull is exactly correct, as Vadar would be performing an Expert Handling action and then a Barrel Roll Action.  What the FAQ change does is create this sequence:

Vadar: Perform Expert Handling (action choice 1)

Vadar: Perform free action Barrel Roll (from Expert Handling)

Vadar: Perform (any action other than Barrel roll (action choice 2)

 

Previously, Vadar could do this sequence:

Vadar: Perform Expert Handling (action choice 1)

Vadar: Perform Action Choice 2 (any action other than Expert Handling)

 

I, too, agree with Radiskull's assessment.

[KommissarK 209]

I'm of the opinion that the wording was just plain wrong, and caused an invalid form of language in the rules.

Its not that without the errata change Vader could barrel roll twice, but rather, that without the errata change, the rules simply were not precise enough to tell either way. That they did not properly write out how the ability was supposed to function.

I definitely believe it was quite possible either way, but more because it was vague wording. It certainly was not 100% clear that Vader could not barrel roll twice.

[radiskull 39]

 Perhaps.  I'm glad it's unambiguous now.

[Chairborne 0]

I apologize. I guess it is just me being a newb to the game.

 

I've been reading the rules for a couple of months now and been a lurker for almost that long. I've only been actually playing the game, solo at that, for a couple of weeks.

 

I'll try to do do better in the future.

[radiskull 39]

 Don't be too hard on yourself. It's been a pretty interesting discussion.

[Sock3 0]

 the rule book states on page 20, cards override rules. besides you would not be doing 2 barrel roll actions, you would be doing an expert handling action and a barrel roll action.

[Sock3 0]

sock said:

 the rule book states on page 20, cards override rules. besides you would not be doing 2 barrel roll actions, you would be doing an expert handling action and a barrel roll action.

and after reading all the other posts i find myself thinking why did i bother saying that. i appologise