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Greyshade

Is WFRP 3e being killed off?

113 posts in this topic

Given the lack of support for 3e when compared to it's 40K siblings it seems strange that fans of WFRP have had such meagre scraps released and with the re-release of WFRP 2e, are FFG doing a WotC style backtrack to the earlier more popular version?

It really makes me wonder what has happened to all the creativity,  is it all being siphoned off to other more lucrative product lines?

How about giving us a WFRP 2e/3e version of Black Crusade, WFRP2e had Children of the Horned Rat so why not build on those ideas?

Throw life into areas of the that haven't been really detailed, Araby, Nippon, Cathay and Lustria.  Books on the player races etc. plenty of scope for new material.

What do other folks think about this should FFG go back to 2e and expand on that line or dedicate more effort to 3e?

I personally would like to see WFRP system grow in either range, but with the lack of products being released even my local players are saying 3e is dead and either play 2e or an other companies games instead.

 

 

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 I don't know about "killed off" but it does appears to be being "boxed (to use a battlestar galactica term.)". The release of 2e materials on Drivethru just makes that seem more likely. Who knows but FFG, but it looks like they are winding down the game until their license expires…

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This game has,"stick a fork in me. I'm done," written all over it.   See above post.  It appears the pdf dump for 2e is a last ditch attempt to gather some scrap chinyen and say,"lookie. maybe a 4th time?."  Expect more redundant token p.o.d. card sets….maybe… until the license dies.

 

 

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The interesting thing is, IF FFG are going to release the Enemy Within, have they shot themselves in the foot with the lack of communication. Many people will have got the idea that 3rd edition is largely unsupported now, so why bother buying it. With the 2nd edition being rereleased, people might as well convert the 2nd edition scenarios to 3rd edition. For the probable cost of the Enemy Within a GM will probably be able to buy most of the 2nd edition adventures from Drive Thru. Very bizarre!

I think WFRP is dead at FFG, unsupported and unloved. I doubt that anybody is doing anything for it and the only people working on it at all, are the warehousemen dealing with the Enemy Within boxes, if they ever come in.

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stormofswords said:

 I don't know about "killed off" but it does appears to be being "boxed (to use a battlestar galactica term.)". The release of 2e materials on Drivethru just makes that seem more likely. Who knows but FFG, but it looks like they are winding down the game until their license expires…

They renewed the licence last year.

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 The pod drivethru rpg change makes me think how wicked awesome would it be if tew came out dual statted for 2nd Ed. 

I think the hope is that sale of 2nd edition books may fund a few more wfrp3 releases. Anyways, still at least one major release to go.

…but it does feel like the, ehm…"Fan Galvanization" process has began.

Oh, You don't know of this process? well let me tell you…

This is a harsh subsistence self sufficiency process that fans of previous editions have gone through to make them de ÜberFans!: grognardier, more prone to write fan material, more effective analysts of GW fickle ways, and, most of all, well,… better off in the hip pocket actually. Bitten by the frosts of no releases, toughened by the famine of no news and tempered in the heat of aimless flame wars, YOU TOO! soldier, can share this fate. On this grey muddy battlefield many have fallen. BUT a few shall rise, unconquerable. Look inside yourself and tell me, do you have the heart? Step forward soldier, let me administer the serum..and the process has begun. Cackle!

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FFG tend not to release much info about future releases. We probably won't get any news about another release until after the enemy within is out.

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 We could look at the re-print of wfrp2 as FFG supporting the fan community, while they make some bucks. Plus,it'll bring down the ridiculous prices being asked of wfrp2 products on eBay and such. It's all good news, no need to see the death of wftp3 in it. Let's be patient and see what'll come to the line.

Cheers

Ceodryn

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zwobot said:

 

Name your sources please!

Documents pertaining to the Games Workshop versus Chapterhouse Studios court case.

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There seem to be a lot of documents. archive.recapthelaw.org/ilnd/250791/ I for one will simply take your word for it. happy.gif I guess the license is important for the future of WFRP in translation. The German publisher has just released the core components so far, but I think his already translating The Gathering Storm as well as some PODs. Apart from WFRP 3, FFG has some board or card games set in the Warhammer Fantasy universe, right? So the RPG isn't the only thing counting for or against renewing the license, but as long as they have it, they'll try to make money off off it.

Regarding the original question: I hope this impression is only due to FFG's unfortunate, if not incompetent way of communicating with their customer base. They have put out Hero's Call and four PODs this year, and announced the new TEW. Hopefully TEW will be finished within this year (we know it might take some weeks till it gets into stores), but we're down to guessing or wishful thinking in this regard.

However, that they put out less products each year after the first rush doesn't seem very surprising, does it? I'm not following their other RPG lines/ release schedules, so I have no comparison. But RPGs only make up for a small percentage of overall FFG sales.(Perhaps 10%, although I don't have exact numbers - based my guess on this: www.purplepawn.com/2012/08/fantasy-flight-games-2012-in-flight-report/ ). We're small fishes in the pond. Let's hope we'll be fed a little longer. happy.gif

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 As has been pointed out, there are other products in the FFG line tied to the Warhammer universe (including the 40k line) that would explain renewing the license without plans to heavily support WFRP3. What we can hope is that there will be a trickle of (quality) products until FFG stops production of WFRP3 material - whenever that may be.

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 Feeding rumours or circulating negativity about a great system, which may suppress sales won't encourage FFG.  Sales is the key.  If you want them to keep it going, keep up the great fan support, post on fora like RPG net and otherwise talk up the game's advantages.

If the POD sales are good, then they will keep that up.  If Enemy Within release reboots interest and causes surge in sales that will have positive influence.

They have covered many of the "easy bases" with the 4 ruinous power boxes.  If there is underlying stuff they can crib over between systems that makes it easier for them to put out stuff and we can hope they will whether 2e skaven stuff or 40,000 dark eldar becomes some material for dark elf stuff in Old World.

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If FFG gave a crap about their fans, they'd come on here and quell the rumors.  Until then, I'm not personally going to support "hope" in this regards.

 

They need to come on their forums and tell us what's up or this fiasco will continue.  The fans really want to know :)

 

jh

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What Fiasco? Their perspective is, we have designed a game, we sold it, some expansions were made and sold. The hype is gone, time to put manpower in othere better selling products.

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It might well be that that is indeed their perspective. We don't know, they might as well have outlines for two or three more supplements, but want to finish TEW before they tell us any other news/ plans.

The "fiasco" referred to here is that FFG failed to mention WFRP at GenCon 2012 four weeks ago. The missed the obvious (and kinda traditional) chance to promote one of their product lines, rally fans and wet their appetites. They would not have needed a new release for that, I think, The Enemy Within would have had enough weight to pull that off.

Instead, they continue to fail communication-wise. The custom dice are out of stock. Whether they intend to produce more of them or quietly snuff the line, it would be so easy to put up an extra notice: "We're sorry the custom dice are currently out of stock in our webstore. Please check your FLGS or other online retailers that still have them in stock. Alternatively, you'll find more dice (along with lots of other cool stuff) within the following products…" Without such a notice it simply looks like the mark of death for the game.

Whether the WFRP 3 line has run its course or not, the (lack of) communication on the part of FFG is a failure, yes.

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You get these threads for all of their RPG lines after a while. And yet they're still publishing Dark Heresy material (which kinda surprises me, actually). Sure, they may stop the line any day now (though I don't believe they will), but the lack of communication about future releases doesn't mean anything - that's just FFG being FFG, business as usual.

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 I contacted FFG customer support urging them to speak out to stop the circulation of rumours etc.  No word on doing so (likely requires oodles of approvals) but did receive an assurance I should not worry as a fan - that "WFRP isn't going anywhere" (not in the it's dead in water sense but rather in the "game is not being killed off/shelved" - it is remaining a product line - sense).

And I remind of mentions that there is playtesting going of other stuff but it's under nondisclosure agreements so more than "I know somebody doing something' more not known.

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Since I haven´t played any WFRP (2nd or 3rd ed.) from the inception of Dark Heresy, I also don´t frequent this part. You are with no big releases for a while (as was Dark Heresy this year by the way) and you are turning into lynchh mob. From few topics I read I say that some reactions are more whiny than those of an Eldar player…

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TorogTarkdacil812 said:

Since I haven´t played any WFRP (2nd or 3rd ed.) from the inception of Dark Heresy, I also don´t frequent this part. You are with no big releases for a while (as was Dark Heresy this year by the way) and you are turning into lynchh mob. From few topics I read I say that some reactions are more whiny than those of an Eldar player…

 

Honestly, we don't give a crap about releases.  Our concern is that they don't care about communication with their customers.  They are beneath the industry standard of communicating with fans other than treating them like little cash machines.

 

You're absolutely right that this is a lynch mob.  Our purpose is to get Frankenstein to step out of his castle and address the mob.

 

jh

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What I find a bit discomforting is the patented radio silence FFG likes to keep on their forums. Not knowing if they even write material for wfrp anymore bugs me a lot more than postponed release dates.

This lack of communication lacks style, considering above all that the wfrp community is very creative, productive and certainly not as inflammatory as other groups out there on the internet. I mean, these are supportive people that a community manager could talk to without getting shredded to pieces, I'd like to think. Even something like: "Hi guys, we're working on something but I'm not allowed to talk about it (yet)." would be enough for me at this point.

As for release dates, well, we all play wfrp here so we are used to seeing our beloved setting being published over decades, by all sorts of publishers and fan sites and spread out across all conceivable channels anyhow. If the next thing gets here a few months later it won't kill me, I just would like to know it's in the making.

 

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Most game developers create policies about communications on the forum and for good historical reasons.  In as a whole its a poor business practice even if their is this kind of "community pressure" to be overtly involved on a daily "posting on the forums" level.  The reason is simple.  Everything anyone employed at FFG says on the forum becomes a commitment, even if that post uses vague words like "we might do something", "we are thinking about doing something", "We are talking about doing something".  The community will take any such statements as "We are 100% committed to doing X thing" and before you know it they are demanding an "update on X thing that was promised" and if they don't get one suddenly the company "has lied to them".

FFG is a great company with a very strong history of support for their products, their actions are of a company that makes a promise and follows through on that promise.  They don't owe the consumer a constant stream of updates and information and frankly when I start seeing posts from a developer who says stuff like "we are working on it", I get deeply concerned because it shows a complete lack of confidence.  A strong company releases products when they are ready not when the community demands them to be ready.

In a way its similiar to having a stalker.  Usually they are pretty harmless overly excited fans, but as soon as you reply to a fan letter they suddenly expect regular communication from their "friend" and if they don't get it they go from harmless stalker to hostile and demanding nut job.

 

 

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BigKahuna said:

Most game developers create policies about communications on the forum and for good historical reasons.  In as a whole its a poor business practice even if their is this kind of "community pressure" to be overtly involved on a daily "posting on the forums" level.  The reason is simple.  Everything anyone employed at FFG says on the forum becomes a commitment, even if that post uses vague words like "we might do something", "we are thinking about doing something", "We are talking about doing something".  The community will take any such statements as "We are 100% committed to doing X thing" and before you know it they are demanding an "update on X thing that was promised" and if they don't get one suddenly the company "has lied to them".

FFG is a great company with a very strong history of support for their products, their actions are of a company that makes a promise and follows through on that promise.  They don't owe the consumer a constant stream of updates and information and frankly when I start seeing posts from a developer who says stuff like "we are working on it", I get deeply concerned because it shows a complete lack of confidence.  A strong company releases products when they are ready not when the community demands them to be ready.

In a way its similiar to having a stalker.  Usually they are pretty harmless overly excited fans, but as soon as you reply to a fan letter they suddenly expect regular communication from their "friend" and if they don't get it they go from harmless stalker to hostile and demanding nut job.

 

 

 

There are two thing going on here.The first is that lack of information and little in the release schedule is never a good sign. Those of us who have been following WFRP over the last couple of decades usually know what this means. Some of us knew that BI was on its way out before the people working for BI apparently did. Similarly, it was clear on these forums that WFRP2 was going to be dropped, even though some fans defended and explained FFG's sudden silence, saying things about communications policies and that they were sure FFG was just too busy working on great new supplements. I suppose they were partly right, but perhaps not in the way they meant.

The second point is, FFG is a business. This fact is usually pointed out to uptight fans when they start to have unrealistic demands and expectations. However, poor communication with your customers is bad business. I work for an organisation dealing with a lot of different businesses and companies, and I can assure you that the ones that don't provide updates or just send you brief, simplistic emails saying very little are the ones you don't do business with again. You might tolerate it for a while if a product is good, but eventually you get fed up and look elsewhere. Sure, that company might suddenly tell you about a really good new product they have, but if you have any sense at all you remember what happened the last time you did business with them.

Cheers

Sparrow

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