Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Larapio

Void vs. Zombie - Who comes first?

Recommended Posts

This is a classic problem with no real, undisputed solution - Zombie doesn't go to the warp, while Void puts ships somewhere other than the warp. Without an official ruling, you can either make a house rule or use the timing rules of offense first.

As for my opinion, I rule that Void has precedence over Zombie, since CE Online does it that way. (Plus, I like the resulting rock-paper-scissors relationship with Zombie, Healer, and Void.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I am often unintentionally guilty of this myself, I don't think it's always fair to rule by how other editions work -- especially, perhaps, the online edition.  Nothing whatsoever in the text of either alien indicates superiority of one over the other in a face-off.  Both activate when ships should be sent to warp.  If we go solely by this edition's rule, it's pretty clear that the timing conflict resolution rules need to be summoned:

Offensive power goes first.
Then defensive power.
Then ally powers, clockwise from offensive player.

Whichever alien, Void or Zombie, comes first in that particular encounter according to that list determines what happens with Zombie's ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always prefer using that general timing rule instead of having another stinking house rule. Still, I try to avoid it if the text on the alien cards solve the problem first. I'm assuming the alien card text over rules the general timing rule. For example, two powers activate in the planning phase but one card says BEFORE cards are selected and the other says AFTER cards are selected. I follow that instead of: Attack, Defense, others rule...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hang on a sec...I think I've found something.

Void's card: "...use this power to remove the losing side's ships from the game rather than sending them to the warp." (emphasis mine)

Zombie's card: "Whenever you should lose ships to the warp..."

I interpret this to mean the following: Normally, a ship on the losing side of a battle gets sent to the warp, and then it ends up there. Zombie gets sent to the warp, then he uses his power to U-turn and come back. He does have to sent originally, since he still has to vacate colonies.

However, Void cause ships to be removed from the game instead of being sent to the warp. Zombie can only use his power if his ships are on the road to the warp.

The key here is that there's a difference between "sending" a ship to the warp and physically putting the ship in there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toomai said:

I interpret this to mean the following: Normally, a ship on the losing side of a battle gets sent to the warp, and then it ends up there. Zombie gets sent to the warp, then he uses his power to U-turn and come back. He does have to sent originally, since he still has to vacate colonies.

I agree with your interpretation for the most part, but this should also mean that since Zombie's ships do not go to the warp, he doesn't claim Compensation.

Would this also mean that a player who plays N against Void would similarly not claim Compensation because his defeated ships do not go to the warp? (I don't have the rulebook at hand, so I'm not sure if it specifies "warp", or just "lost ships").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the rulebook specifies "warp" for compensation.

I should note that all three of these interpretations - Zombie doesn't get compensation, Void eradicates Zombie, Void doesn't give compensation - are all how CE Online works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're reaching there.  "Whenever you should lose ships to Warp" as Zombie you should instead retain them.  "Rather than sending [ships] to Warp," Void eliminates ships.  Both are actions to be done instead of sending the ships to Warp.  Sure, you could say that Zombie's power doesn't activate because Void causes the ships not to go to Warp, but by the same token you could say that Void's power doesn't activate because Zombie's ships don't actually go to Warp -- they just should go to Warp.  Both powers activate when the ships should go to Warp, causing them to go somewhere else instead.  If the authors wanted one to have precedence, it'd be noted in an example or much more clearly worded.

As for Cosmic Online, I love having the server determine how the game works for me, but timing conflicts are not really CEO's speciality.  In the board game, there is a Timing Conflict Resolution rule for a reason, but online the code is wonky and the game would be too confused if it had to go through extra steps to see who wins in conflicts and what actually constitutes a conflict.  When Dictator and Will first appeared, for example, Dictator preceded Will.  That has since been changed, but I never would have gone by that ruling offline.  Other weird discrepancies online: After Oracle foresees Sorceror or Calculator's card, the opponent gets to see Oracle's card, too, before deciding if he should switch or calculate... which of course makes no sense.

And yea, I know you were just mentioning that it works that way at CEO in passing, not basing your interpretation solely on that, but I just thought it was worth pointing out on a related note.  I can understand what you're trying to get at with Void Vs. Zombie, but I think that is bending the language too much when both texts are just trying to say, "Do this instead of sending the ships to Warp," and there's already a perfectly fine rule for resolving the conflict.  But as always, it's a free cosmos!  Everyone play as you like.  :)

I'd say that's just my 2 cents, but I tend to ramble on, so I would say that's worth more like.... 5 cents.  ;)

EDIT: Oh, and about Void and compensation, that's right.  Opponents of Void don't collect compensation because unlike in the Zombie / Void conflict, compensation is not based on ships that should go to Warp but based on ships that actually do go to Warp.  It's a nice perk to being Void so it isn't just an intimidation power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it makes any difference, we played a Void vs. Zombie game last night.  If you just use the timing rules, it works just fine.

1) Offense applies power

2) Defense applies power

3) Everyone else applies power.

This means that if the Void is the offense, they are able to destroy Zombie's ships.  If Zombie is the Offense, his ships are safe.  If the Void is the Defense & Zombie is an ally, Zombies ships are destroyed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...