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Unholy_Ravager

Blast weapons with semiauto/full auto

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If character Pc or NPC can't move out of the blast radius then no need to dodge.

But appart from siege engine I don't remember any burst or full auto weapon with a blast radius so large that you can't dodge.

Exept maybe the grenade launcher with a lot of frags shoot at the same time in a pentagone shape.

 

 

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 Hmm I suppose i should provide a concrete of example of what i'm asking about. Ok the people involved are the chaos space marines Talks-in-Theater  and Puppy-kicker. Opposed to them is the Salamander Devastator, Bob the Builder.

The two chaos space marines are standing two meters apart. Bob spots the evil-doers and opens up with his heavy bolter loaded with metal storm rounds. He scores 6 degress of success, and so gets all 6 of his hits. now he decides to dived the shots 50/50 between the two villians, for 3 on each.

 

My Question is what happens now?

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The chaos marines dodge.

If they succeed they dodge as many shots as they are allowed to.

The shooter was aiming at where the target was, any hits the target succesfully dodged land (see below) where the target was.

Those hits the target does not dodge either hit before he dodged or the shooter corrected his aim and hits the target after the dodge.

No self respecting soldier would dodge closer to a friendly if someone is shooting a blast weapon at them.

 

The game doesn't mention it (as it can easily confuse some) but in reality a blast weapon which miss or are dodged won't always blow up.

Some blast weapons, such as mortars, grenades, and artillery will land on the ground where aimed and blow up. But weapons like missiles and explosive rounds generally tend to only detonate when they hit something (or get close enough to trigger a proximity fuse). If they miss or a target dodges these weapons the round keeps going until they hit something past them.

Proposition: For weapons such as missiles and direct firing projectiles (bullets) if they miss or are dodged they do not explode.

Missiles, we can assume, have proximity fuses. For missiles determine the hit or scatter as if it had blown up. If anything remains in the blast radius then it does, otherwise it just continues flying away until hit hits something (for game purposes just ignore it, unless theres a wall 2m behind the characters)

For direct firing projectiles if they miss or are dodged they simply do nothing as the rounds continue off in the distance. Only figure blast damage and hits if a target is hit. (Bolter rounds, autocannons, and the like)

If the ammo's description says it has a proximity sensor follow the rules for missiles.

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I was talking this out with a friend, and the conclusion I got to was that you should think of it as "they take the hits first, and then dodge."

I think too often we view dodging full auto as a sort of "stack," where the first shots that landed are the first shots that we actually dodge, and the remainder that hit are due to a poor dodging skill. If we view it as taking the hits first, then dodging, much of this works out.

First, yes, the blast lands where the initial target was landing. The target tries to dodge, and takes damage dealt to him, where he stands. If he successfully dodged, then he gets his move.

Nearby targets are in the same boat. They know they are in the blast, and must dodge as well. If they end up taking some hits, they take the damage first, then move.

Overall, this feels the cleanest way to resolve this.

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I didn't follow that. You mean you start dodging the last shots of the burst?

This issue is also confounded by the "where does he dodge to?" His AB may be enough to place him outside the blast-zone of the first shot, but I believe you could select to have following shots hit targets up to 2 m away. You could very well "aim for the ground at his feet, then walk the line of hits to the left with 2m increments" or some sneaky trick like that. He may dodge some direct hits, but you were expecting that, and went for a "carpet bombing" approach where you targeted blasts to cover an area around the marines. 

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Unholy_Ravager said:

 There seems to be a lack of a clear solution in this.

No there's just no simple calculation. For every hit you score a hit on the target as normal. Complications come from that fact that every miss might not miss by enough to not affect the target, and in addition to the target needing enough agility bonus to dodge out of the area there might even been a particular spread of areas that he cannot dodge out of the area of, effectively taking an automatic hit (also possible by aiming in specific areas but with metal storm rounds of only 2m radius that is going to be difficult on most targets.

In you example if the targets are 2m apart (which they need to be to be hit with bullets from the same burst) then actually both guys need to get 5 degrees of success to dodge all 6 hits as weather you aim between them or allocate hits to each evenly the area of the attack would hit both. 

If the attacker had with less than 6 then the scatter of missed rounds might mean that one or the other is clipped by more area's than the other or that they just both have less bullets to dodge.

 

 

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A metal storm bolt shell that misses (by being dodged, in this instance) should keep going, and explode elsewhere. Every shell that hits either Talks-In-Theater or Puppy-Kicker includes the other in its blast radius. Any shots that land on-target will do so simultaneously. Treat it as any other instance of the Chaos Marine in question being within the blast radius of an explosion. This is a cool trick, which I used several variations of whilst playing a Devastator.

KommissarK knows what's up. Re-read for clarity if you need to.

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