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Why I am not playing this game…

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FFG already stated in a video from Worlds that future Game Night Kit content would be more "game focused" as in things you can actually use to play the game with rather than trophy items. Also, they said alternate art cards are on the list of potential future prizes.

From an OP perspective, I can see doing tournaments for each Data Pack release where the top player(s) can win the new pack as the prize. I think that and the Game Night Kits are an okay start for local OP. In between them, meeting up  to test your newest builds on a weekly basis isn't so bad. Now I just need several other people to buy a core set so I can get a local group going.

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Rince said:

 

 

Anyways, I see no reason why Android could not become the next prominent card game out there. It just needs a little investment: a flow of cool prices and a worldwide ranking system, but it could really pick up! 

 

 

Amazing post and I agree with all points. FFG has been bit lacking with organized play and CCGs with my experience really need a solid organized play to survive for a longer time. Otherwise game might live for couple years and start dying after that. I feel it is same thing with LCGs. FFG has a huge potential with organized play and I hope they start to using it more until the game starts going down (I feel AGoT is in this turning point now). This topic is one of the most important in these boards.

EDIT: MTG is not hugely popular in here Finland but there a lot of organized play which really keeps it alive and well known.

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 Another way for a store or other tournament organizer to deal with prizes could be to open a Core Set, and have the top prizes be the cards that people buy to fill out their sets. The neutral cards and other cards that often get splashed into other decks would be useful too. Heck even the chits would be okay prizes for people who play with multiple decks.

Hell it'd be great if FFG sent out packs of the cards to fill out the set.  I know it's not going to be necessary in the long run, and I'm not going to buy a second Core just to get them, but as prizes… I'd be all right with that.

 

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From what I've gathered, FFG (and the various retailers who deal with translations) aren't the ones who make the AGoT tournament scene live. Certainly not at the local level. Also, the biggest tournament each year is not the *cough* World *cough* Championship held in the States (54 players in the Melee, 81 in the Joust), but the European Championship held in Stahleck (66 players in the Melee, 130 in the Joust) - that's right, folks, Stahleck has more than half again the players (though the Melee would probably be smaller if there wasn't a card to design). From what I know, the TO for Stahleck is not affiliated in any way with FFG and FFG had no hand in the organization,

So yeah, it's very much up to the players to organize the tournament scene.

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Khudzlin said:

So yeah, it's very much up to the players to organize the tournament scene.

On the local level it is partly true, and it is actually the same with every other card game out there. Yet, when you look at Magic or WoW and how much buzz those card games generate as opposed to LCGs, you realize that the difference is staggering. And what is responsible for this difference, is the amount of support and infrastructure the mother company provides for event organizers. So saying that organization depends solely on the gamer community might apply to some local groups but certainly not to the community as a whole.

In my opinion, part of the publisher's responsibility is to to provide motivation for local playgroups to organize events. Once that is taken care of, everything else pretty much happens on its own.

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Sorry if this is somewhat aside from the main thread.

I played the original Netrunner CCG 13 or 14 years ago with my teenage son. We also played other CCG's ranging from StarTrek:TNG to Battletech to Shadowrun to INWO (we never played M:TG, and that was before Yu-Gi-Oh arrived on the scene). We thought Netrunner was one of the best, in particular because it's a 2-player game. We amassed hundreds of Netrunner cards. We were disappointed when it was discontinued. We never played in any tournaments… we live in a small city in central California with very few "face to face" card or board gamers.

Anyhow -- to the point >> Since Netrunner is strictly a 2-player game, all you have to do is find one friend in your town who likes complex games, and "teach" it patiently. Or you might search the net for someone in your town who played the original legacy version.

A few days ago I was able to purchase the new "Android:Netrunner" while visiting San Diego, CA. All of the first publication had sold out at that store (Game Empire). I will bring it back home, and try it again. It will be fun to see if the old Netrunner cards can be combined with the new version -- although it will be obvious to the opponent if you add any of the old "legacy" cards in your deck!!

That is why I say: "Why I will play this game…!"

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 I don't think it will be a good idea to mix in old cards. FFG is redoing some of them already and it would break the balance they have created with factions. There is also the fact that some rules have been changed.

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Khudzlin said:

 

So yeah, it's very much up to the players to organize the tournament scene.

 

 

I am not expecting FFG to host tournament scene but organizing things to help the tournaments scene. This includes worldwide rankings and tournament price support like alternative art cards, promos etc. FFG just needs to organize the bigger events, maybe we will even see tournament which can be called World Championships sometime.

I am most interested what the tournament price support could be and how stores could benefit financially from LCG tournaments also. I would be interested to try host some tournaments if I wouldn't have to invent the whole concept myself (like prices, format, rankings etc).Some leagues would be great also. Releasing one pack per month keeps the buzz and interest so there is good chance to do tournaments once per month for the price of the new pack + some euros to cover other prices. The monthly release system really gives potential for more events.

EDIT Maybe the topic should be Organized play of Netrunner.

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Surreal said:

I am not expecting FFG to host tournament scene but organizing things to help the tournaments scene. This includes worldwide rankings and tournament prize support like alternative art cards, promos etc. FFG just needs to organize the bigger events, maybe we will even see tournament which can be called World Championships sometime.

 

As has been pointed out a few times this has already been stated as stuff that is in the works by FFG.

"The kits will now be more game focused, rather than item focused, much like the new Netrunner and X-Wing OP Kits. They want to put out things that you can actually use during a game.

Game Night Kits will now include a Tournament Organizer Prize, though it wasn't confirmed if it would be in the upcoming Netrunner or X-Wing Packs.

Game Night Kits will eventually include alternate art promotional cards that are reprints of existing cards with new/different/better art. The exception to this is Star Wars, which will receive Aurebesh texted cards. For those that don't know, Aurebesh is the name of the font that the signs and written communication of the Star Wars universe is. These cards will have the title and flavor text replaced with Aurebesh translations.

It was emphasized that there will be no competitive advantage from having the alternate-art cards, aside from having extra copies of the alternate art cards.

FFG is looking into bringing back two popular programs: a Tournament Organizer program and a Player Ranking System. Both programs are in their infancy, and are not yet developed. They were very intent on letting us know that they are being looked at. "

www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/index.html/_/articles/ffg-organized-play-news-r367

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 That's great news. I just won our local local Warhammer: Invasion league and would love to have received alternate art cards. I got the playmat and patch and a pin, so that was cool. But Alternate cards would be really cool. Can't wait.

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Vaslov said:

 It will be fun to see if the old Netrunner cards can be combined with the new version -- although it will be obvious to the opponent if you add any of the old "legacy" cards in your deck!!

You can use card sleeves to hide the backs. ;)

(I would suggest you use sleeves anyway, to preserve your cards - I wish I had sleeved my original Netrunner cards all those years ago…)

~ Tim

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Astro Mike said:

 

On the local level it is partly true, and it is actually the same with every other card game out there. Yet, when you look at Magic or WoW and how much buzz those card games generate as opposed to LCGs, you realize that the difference is staggering. And what is responsible for this difference, is the amount of support and infrastructure the mother company provides for event organizers. So saying that organization depends solely on the gamer community might apply to some local groups but certainly not to the community as a whole.

In my opinion, part of the publisher's responsibility is to to provide motivation for local playgroups to organize events. Once that is taken care of, everything else pretty much happens on its own.

This is how I see things are currently, not how I think they should be. I just have the impression FFG is not supporting its games' tournament scene as much as Wizards or AEG. But I would love to have to change that opinion,

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Khudzlin said:

 

This is how I see things are currently, not how I think they should be. I just have the impression FFG is not supporting its games' tournament scene as much as Wizards or AEG. But I would love to have to change that opinion,

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Cryptozoic, WotC and AEG all make a significant larger amount of money off of their TCGs. LCGs are not quite the cash cow that traditional TCGs end up being in light of their random card distribution thus forcing people to buy multiple products in order to get their cards they "need" for their decks. I'm already planning out a tournament for Android: Netrunner using the tournament kit I ordered that arrived last week. The kit is very similar to the kits Cryptozoic sends out for World of Warcraft TCG.

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Toqtamish said:

 

Khudzlin said:

 

This is how I see things are currently, not how I think they should be. I just have the impression FFG is not supporting its games' tournament scene as much as Wizards or AEG. But I would love to have to change that opinion,

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Cryptozoic, WotC and AEG all make a significant larger amount of money off of their TCGs. LCGs are not quite the cash cow that traditional TCGs end up being in light of their random card distribution thus forcing people to buy multiple products in order to get their cards they "need" for their decks. I'm already planning out a tournament for Android: Netrunner using the tournament kit I ordered that arrived last week. The kit is very similar to the kits Cryptozoic sends out for World of Warcraft TCG.

 

 

Do you have some data to pack this up? This kind of argument is often used:t "random card distribution thus forcing people to buy multiple products in order to get their cards they "need" for their decks." Still I haven't met a single serious MTG player who does this (or maybe some boosters to get playsets of commons/uncommons). Everybody just buys singles. Buying random cards to get specific cards is not very wise whne there is a single market. It is amazind drafting format which really saves MTG. I don't think it is even very cheap to build tournament AGoT decks. First tournament winning AGoT deck I found used cards from over 14 different expansions (and multiple core sets). That is huge investment for a game practically without singles market.

My point is more that CCG/LCG are both big cash cows and it can only be debated which packing system someones likes more. Both have their positive sides and negative sides. But I don't think it can be compared which nets more money or which is a bigger cash cow. LCGs might bit better to hide this image for some thought.

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I want to start by saying that I manage a game store. My store is in a major metropolitan market in the US and we are packed every night for different events and games.

I have seen games come and go, player communities grow, die, and then regrow again. I can guarantee that the play kits from any manufacturer or the prize support from the manufacturer do not dictate the growth of the game or the size of the community. The key to growing a game is simple. Have people play it in the store….on game nights, on their days off, whenever they can. Have fun and outgoing people playing it and having a good time. Simple. I just bought netrunner myself because we have a group of people playing it in my store…they are very nice and seem to have a great time. I have access to pretty much any game out there. I bought this one because people were playing it.

As evidence to my point, we used to have a very active L5R community. Several of the players moved away, some had children, some just stopped playing. I still received tons of prize support, promo cards, and other give aways from AEG (the manufacturer) but the game almost completely died in my store because people weren't playing it and there was no community. I had a new guy move to the area who loved the game, said he would demo the game as much as possible and built a community just by being in the store playing games and having fun. Today when i left we had 6 people sitting and playing at 6pm on a random monday with no store event scheduled just because people stopped by to see if anyone was there playing.

If you want Netrunner to be successful in your local game store you have to do two things…play games and have fun…people will ask what you are doing, can they watch, what do you need to play? I know this sounds a little like "if you build it they will come" but i have seen it time and time again.

And as for prize support, there are tons of ways that a FLGS can have tournaments and offer great prize support with nothing from the manufacturer and without hurting profits for the store.

I definitely understand the original posters frustration with wanting to play a new game that has not built a community…but the answer is not to blame fantasy flight for not offering enough support (though i do wish they would get the game kits and standard sleeves back in stock). It is simply to grab a friend and go down to the store and play the game. Have fun. And even if you play 3 games and not a single person buys a copy, you've had fun playing playing 3 games of Netrunner. Much worse things out there.

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dwbailey said:

I want to start by saying that I manage a game store. My store is in a major metropolitan market in the US and we are packed every night for different events and games. I have seen games come and go, player communities grow, die, and then regrow again. I can guarantee that the play kits from any manufacturer or the prize support from the manufacturer do not dictate the growth of the game or the size of the community. The key to growing a game is simple. Have people play it in the store….on game nights, on their days off, whenever they can. Have fun and outgoing people playing it and having a good time. Simple. I just bought netrunner myself because we have a group of people playing it in my store…they are very nice and seem to have a great time. I have access to pretty much any game out there. I bought this one because people were playing it. As evidence to my point, we used to have a very active L5R community. Several of the players moved away, some had children, some just stopped playing. I still received tons of prize support, promo cards, and other give aways from AEG (the manufacturer) but the game almost completely died in my store because people weren't playing it and there was no community. I had a new guy move to the area who loved the game, said he would demo the game as much as possible and built a community just by being in the store playing games and having fun. Today when i left we had 6 people sitting and playing at 6pm on a random monday with no store event scheduled just because people stopped by to see if anyone was there playing. If you want Netrunner to be successful in your local game store you have to do two things…play games and have fun…people will ask what you are doing, can they watch, what do you need to play? I know this sounds a little like "if you build it they will come" but i have seen it time and time again. And as for prize support, there are tons of ways that a FLGS can have tournaments and offer great prize support with nothing from the manufacturer and without hurting profits for the store. I definitely understand the original posters frustration with wanting to play a new game that has not built a community…but the answer is not to blame fantasy flight for not offering enough support (though i do wish they would get the game kits and standard sleeves back in stock). It is simply to grab a friend and go down to the store and play the game. Have fun. And even if you play 3 games and not a single person buys a copy, you've had fun playing playing 3 games of Netrunner. Much worse things out there.

Exactly. Same thing here with WoW TCG. They give the kits away for free. Yippee. Doesn't really matter if no one is playing and most have moved on. We went from 16 very active to 3 or 4. If you build it they will come is very accurate for building a gaming community for any game. Prizes are cool and all but really there is only so many playmats I can have hanging on my wall in gaming room. I went to the store in Halifax on a random Friday night with a friend expecting to meet 2 others. Instead of it being 4 of us playing Netrunner it was 11. People just showed up with copies or picking theirs up and we all started to play. We had 4 to 5 games on the go at a time.

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You have to work your butt off to make a game successful sometimes. Its not the quality of support, its the quality of player's support. I used to sit in gaming stores for hours showing off card games I liked. I single handedly created the Columbus Ohio UFS playscene (most likely).

Play. Love it. Play more. Let others love it. Get up. Go!

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Surreal said:

Toqtamish said:

 

Khudzlin said:

 

This is how I see things are currently, not how I think they should be. I just have the impression FFG is not supporting its games' tournament scene as much as Wizards or AEG. But I would love to have to change that opinion,

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Cryptozoic, WotC and AEG all make a significant larger amount of money off of their TCGs. LCGs are not quite the cash cow that traditional TCGs end up being in light of their random card distribution thus forcing people to buy multiple products in order to get their cards they "need" for their decks. I'm already planning out a tournament for Android: Netrunner using the tournament kit I ordered that arrived last week. The kit is very similar to the kits Cryptozoic sends out for World of Warcraft TCG.

 

 

Do you have some data to pack this up? This kind of argument is often used:t "random card distribution thus forcing people to buy multiple products in order to get their cards they "need" for their decks." Still I haven't met a single serious MTG player who does this (or maybe some boosters to get playsets of commons/uncommons). Everybody just buys singles. Buying random cards to get specific cards is not very wise whne there is a single market. It is amazind drafting format which really saves MTG. I don't think it is even very cheap to build tournament AGoT decks. First tournament winning AGoT deck I found used cards from over 14 different expansions (and multiple core sets). That is huge investment for a game practically without singles market.

My point is more that CCG/LCG are both big cash cows and it can only be debated which packing system someones likes more. Both have their positive sides and negative sides. But I don't think it can be compared which nets more money or which is a bigger cash cow. LCGs might bit better to hide this image for some thought.

 

TCG random distribution are definitely bigger cash cows

1 - Its very common to see people buy boxes of boosters, especially early in a new release. Occassionally I see people buy a case (6 boxes)

2 - Think about how the singles market generates, Someone out there needs to be buying boosters to sell to these redistributors. Sometimes they will even open a case or 2 themselves to get some starting stock to sell. Also the price of specific cards go up based on demand of the card and the limited supply of the card

3 - The price of a card in a LCG is limited, you will never see a "rare" card in a LCG that sells for $100, or even $10 (barring promos). Why? because anyone is able to buy the box for $15 that probably comes 3 of the card you want

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the game is still new, i think if this game gets more sales FFG will maybe commit more into getting the OP setup. As part of the community I think everyone should pitch in and get it off the ground.

 

I'm close to getting my friends and a local store to start supporting NR.

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The announcement of the new gamenight kits are very encouraging. It is almost as if FFG took a peek into this topic and actually listened to our complaints… ;)

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Rince said:

The announcement of the new gamenight kits are very encouraging. It is almost as if FFG took a peek into this topic and actually listened to our complaints… ;)

Not really, the alternate art cards are something that have been requested by AGoT players for a while now so they are just applying the same thing. Personally, I want more playmats!

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I just wanted to chime in here. I organized my own local play group. It took time and effort of me and a really good friend. Made sure alteast someone was there and hit almost every board game night for the last two months to demo if anyone was interested. We slowly gathered support of 3-4 players.  The store we were closest too didn't show a whole lot of interest in hosting or running any types of events, so we shopped around our area. Michigan seems to be lucky enough to have a ton of FLGs and while a lot of our stores had it, no one really was really biting the idea of organized play. 

We kept at it though. Every Monday, we showed up.  Played for 3-4 hours. Talked to the owner about ordering the first playkit. Said he could order it and he did, as long as he made money back for the kit he didn't mind at all. We started reaching out online and notifiying people through here, Reddit, BGG, Twitter, and now Facebook.

Fast foward to this last monday, we had 10 players for $5 dollar buy in on league play. Also had 4 players in open play. Proceeds went right back to the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd players for store credit.  We are now looking forward to our first prize kit tournament this Saturday and with we're about looking at about 25 people signed up and expecting even more. Im estatic about the whole thing. 

Hopefully we can get enough going on so our application stands out for regionals. The store's thrilled with the idea. I'm crossing my fingers.

I consider myself to be very lucky. But a lot of it fell into place after networking out. Don't loose hope!

The store credit model worked out great to keep players coming back in for the league play. Some people use it to buy sleeves or other board games, magic cards. Whatever. The stores happy to have the secured income. We're happy to have the level of competition on the table. The week before Trace Amount came out our store knew it was coming in next week. We had 8 people at $5 entry. 1rst, 2nd, and 3rd all got vouchers for TA along with 1st getting 15 store credit, 2nd getting 10, 3rd just the pack. That model worked out great with the store taking a tiny hit. Everyone showed up the next week to pickup and play the new cards. They completely sold out of their first set. 

We are taking the responsibility and making our play environment. It's thriving. It's great to see our efforts paying off and we're having a blast.

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Again, I did the same thing with UFS back when Sabertooth Games owned it. Takes a lot of effort, but if you bring a buddy and demo decks, worst case scenario, you wind up playing the game with your buddy in a visible space at a games store.

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