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msdttt

Why I am not playing this game…

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This game has ZERO local organized play support. If I cannot find a diverse group of players to play with, I cannot play. Heck, even this own message board is being used more for a player locator than an actual discussion form.

And the championship support being offered for this game is good- if only it was *clear* where it was being held. (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3546)

I do not have doubts that the game is good. On the other hand, it does not matter how good a game is if you cannot convince players to get together and play it.

 

 

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 the game hasn't even been out for a week. My flgs sold out of its initial order so they'll start demos once they have it fully in stock. I think you're bring silly with a week old game. 

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If you want to get players together then do it. FFGs organized play is not like magic or WoW if that is what you are looking for. 

 

Also it clearly says those events are in Roseville, MN. At the FFG center. Says it right there in the third paragraph of the linked page you posted. 

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 Truth be told MS, no game aside from Magic, Yugioh, Pokemon are likely ever to really have a consistent play group unless you have people passionate about the game and its company there to support it.

Hence, you will only ever be playing those three, or other games that haverk passionate players behind them in your area, reaping the benefits of another committed player's strong efforts of supporting it. Nothing wrong with that at all! I've been in the same situation with many games in the past, but, sometimes, I have stepped in and tried to get balls rolling for various games. It's kind of fun (but exhausting).

And do not discount the idea of just picking it up to play it with close friends, school mates, or set up a table at the game's store and say "hey. YOU! Sit down and play this with me. Its fun!".

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 Also regarding championship. Roseville Minnesota. I'm trying to go. (and that information was at the bottom of that article in ittalics)

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Toqtamish said:

Also it clearly says those events are in Roseville, MN. At the FFG center. Says it right there in the third paragraph of the linked page you posted.

True. However, the who/where/when/what/hows of any event listing should be front and center. I am not going to read that far if I don't have a reason to.

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 Yeah I know, I thought it was kind of silly how hidden it was…

Wait… wha… you're not going to read that far if you have no reason to? But…. you had a reason, the reason being because you cared enough to know and bothered asking us?!? … You're just upset that it was in a weird place and there's no local player base and just lashing out now, aren't you?

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msdttt said:

Toqtamish said:

Also it clearly says those events are in Roseville, MN. At the FFG center. Says it right there in the third paragraph of the linked page you posted.

 

True. However, the who/where/when/what/hows of any event listing should be front and center. I am not going to read that far if I don't have a reason to.

 
 
There is not a whole lot of text there to get through. I think you are just reaching to complain. 

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If your FLGS carries the game, and it is selling well at all, go to the management of the store and express your wishes to begin a weekly tournament scene. If they are smart, I'm sure they will be more than happy to work with you, and if enough of a showing comes in, I'm sure they will even offer prize support in some form. Good luck.

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msdttt said:

This game has ZERO local organized play support. If I cannot find a diverse group of players to play with, I cannot play. Heck, even this own message board is being used more for a player locator than an actual discussion form.

And the championship support being offered for this game is good- if only it was *clear* where it was being held. (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3546)

I do not have doubts that the game is good. On the other hand, it does not matter how good a game is if you cannot convince players to get together and play it.

 

 

 

You have no friends? 

This isn't a CCG where you need a thousand people with their own decks and enthusiasm to play. You can rock this like a board game -- the core supports two decks, with several options (12 distinct match-ups) .

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 Oh, Combinatorics!

I just grabbed a dude that played magic a few times and brought my starter and we walked outselves through a game. He made a run on my HQ and hit a snare and died. That was sad. Future reference: Never make a run on anything with less than 3 cards?

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i don't know about NEVER. Better safe than sorry, but Netrunner is full of risks. its at best 3 out of 45 cards, only a 1 in 15 chance of accessing it overall. You want to feel your way around.  It is kind of sad for a new player to get such a bad beat. Hopefully it hasn't turned him off completely.

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That happened to me, got flatlined with a superior board position.  In a way that is what made me want to come back for more.  The game stretched my thought and reason beyond convention.  I fracked those a-holes at Jenteki the second time I ran with Anarch, so the fight is still alive!

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the1gwiz said:

So if I'm reading the OP right…

 

"Someone organize my playgroup, I don't want to.  Oh, and someone else read for me."

 

yup…that pretty much sums it up.

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the1gwiz said:

So if I'm reading the OP right…

 

"Someone organize my playgroup, I don't want to.  Oh, and someone else read for me."

While this is certainly a snarky and derisive way to react to the original post, there *is* a worthwhile point to make along similar lines to the OP.

 

And that is that strong local tournament scenes drive sales like nothing else. And if the publisher wants, it can encourage said scenes.

 

FFG seems to be pushing its new products (and a few of its more popular older ones) at the convention level, and that's good. But it's not as good as trying to build local support for their product.

 

Magic didn't become a tournament staple that has endured for nearly two decades now by accident. It didn't spontaneously develop that tournament scene. It was deliberately and craftily planned to incentivize local stores to run tournaments, and leverage that exposure to boost sales and popularity. And it wasn't the FLGSes that came up with that plan.

 

I'd love to see FFG take some notes and work with stores on a regional and then a local level to establish a strong organized play scene. They've got some properties that could most likely support it, even if it ends up starting small. But sponsoring tournaments at two or three conventions a year isn't enough if that's the goal. It's a great way to drive sales at the convention, but it does nothing for high-level exposure at the local level -- it's preaching to the convention-going choir, and any buzz generated when they go home would have been generated anyways provided you got the sales at the convention in the first place. Putting the games on the tables of the FLGSes during the three hundred fifty other days of the year is what's important. And you don't do that by sponsoring 4 tournaments a year.

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vermillian said:

They have tournament support available for local stores.

What do you recommend?

I'm aware that they're trying, and that's good. What I think they need to do is to follow through by promoting the play kits with stores, helping to advertise stores' events, and try to set up some coordinated events to act as feeders for some kind of regional tournaments, too. The kits are a good start, but to really succeed with it, they have to be a starting point with plans looking farther down the line, not the sum total of their support.

 

That's mostly what I was trying to convey.

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i kinda see the need for tornys.. but I think it is a bit early.. sure it is good to drum interest.. but we only have teh core set.. there isn't much deck choice here.. we need at least one cycle to be finished b4 there can be any real decent events… besides casual "teach and meet" events.

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booored said:

i kinda see the need for tornys.. but I think it is a bit early.. sure it is good to drum interest.. but we only have teh core set.. there isn't much deck choice here.. we need at least one cycle to be finished b4 there can be any real decent events… besides casual "teach and meet" events.

 

The first three tournaments being organised in the UK are going to be run with the "only one core set" rules.  This is a temporary measure to open up the game to as many people as possible, since it is pretty much sold out already.

Since tournament entry is free, and there is no prize support from FFG, these should be friendly tournaments with the intention of getting like minded people together from around the area.  It is also quite nice to be building decks and testing them and tweaking them in advance.

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One reason why tournament support will never be as large as in Magic is because of the nature of a LCG.

CCG require perpetual purchases of products. Tournaments (especially the standard format) encourage this behavior in the customers (limited formats being the extreme example).

With a LCG, once you've bought 1 (or 3) Core Sets, the company is done with you. They can't expect additional income from you (until expansions start being published).

The duration of the relationship between the customer and the company isn't as great.

Also, from the FLGS's perspective, the lack of market for single cards make it less interesting to hold these events. When a store holds a Magic tournament, they can expect to sell last minute singles to players missing a card or two to tune their decks. With an LCG, what's the store's return on investment? They'll sell a couple soda and sandwiches during the day, at most…

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kaffis said:

Magic didn't become a tournament staple that has endured for nearly two decades now by accident. It didn't spontaneously develop that tournament scene. It was deliberately and craftily planned to incentivize local stores to run tournaments, and leverage that exposure to boost sales and popularity. And it wasn't the FLGSes that came up with that plan.

Erm, that is blatantly untrue. There were local tournaments and play nights for well over a year before WotC got involved with local support. I was playing since the beta release and did so for years before the expense became unjustifiable. WotC codified what a number of local store owners had been doing. This is FAR smarter and MUCH better business than just trying to create a program and hope people will like it. They actually studied what programs were successful and blended them together and made it very easy for stores to join the program.

If A:N gets to that same kind of place where numerous stores are running regular play programs FFG will likely support their efforts and commoditize it for others.

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the1gwiz said:

So if I'm reading the OP right…

 

"Someone organize my playgroup, I don't want to.  Oh, and someone else read for me."

I'm going to have to insist you post all your comments on the first line. I can't be bothered to shift my gaze downward.

All jabs at the OP's apparent sloth aside, he makes a good point. There is no viable sanctioned tournament scene for LCGs in the US. Regional, con, and backyard MN events do not qualify as a tournament scene. Sorry, but they don't. Game night kits are cool, I guess, but they seem more like a "thank you" that the store operator can provide to people whose money he already has instead of a way to excite new players. He's not going to sell any more LCG product to a player who already has it. Magic, on the other hand will always sell more product, even in league play. But back to the OP's laziness…. a scene has to start somewhere. If it's up to the players to organize their own tournaments, then so be it. There are literally dozens of people on various boards on this site alone willing to come up with ideas for hosting tournaments. Or there's google.


P.S. A more legitimate reason to not get involved in this game is the pretentious labeling of decks, hands, and discard piles. I guess there is such a thing as too much theme(for me, that is).


P.P.S. My postscript is still a lame reason not to play the game.


P.P.P.S. NBN forever.

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SiCK_Boy said:

Also, from the FLGS's perspective, the lack of market for single cards make it less interesting to hold these events. When a store holds a Magic tournament, they can expect to sell last minute singles to players missing a card or two to tune their decks. With an LCG, what's the store's return on investment? They'll sell a couple soda and sandwiches during the day, at most…

How about all the new players that buy a copy (or three) of the game because they want to enter the tournament with their friends, or because they see the players in the tournament having so much fun that they want to join in the next one?

Plus the expansions are going to start coming out eventually, giving players more things to buy. :)

On a personal note, "Why I am not playing this game…" is because I am STILL waiting for the copy that I pre-ordered to arrive. The store I am trying to buy it from hasnt received ANY copies from their distributor. This makes me a sad sad panda. :(

~ Tim

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 "…Also, from the FLGS's perspective, the lack of market for single cards make it less interesting to hold these events. When a store holds a Magic tournament, they can expect to sell last minute singles to players missing a card or two to tune their decks. With an LCG, what's the store's return on investment? They'll sell a couple soda and sandwiches during the day, at most…"

The market for single cards also make setting prizes quite easy, which, in return, allows the game to enjoy a continuous flow of small organized events on a local level. Take my area for instance. Even though I live in a small town, we have 2 or 3 Magic events every week, which is a lot in my opinion! Yet, not one event has ever suffered from lack of interest. I see two reasons for this.

1. When a store organizes an event, all they need to do is open a few booster packs and allow the winners to chose from it in the order of their ranking, taking turns. So, the winner gets first crack at the card pool, and then the one who finished second, third, and so on. When everyone picked a card, they start over until all cards are gone. With only 4 or 5 boosters, chances are that the winners will walk away with at least 1 or 2 rare and costly cards, making their whole participation worthwhile. But even if they don't get any expensive cards, the promise of a better draw the next time, brings players back week after week. From the stores' perspective, this format is also advantageous. They charge a very small entry fee (just to cover the prize boosters), and in return, they get a constant buzz in their store, selling a crapload of booster packs and singles to the crowd.

2. The other reason why it is quite easy to get people interested in organized events, in Magic for instance, is the worldwide ranking system. When a Magic player participates in a legal event, however small it is, he or she gets points and can immediately compare that score to all other players in the world. This leader board brings out the competitive side of most players, encouraging them to compete week after week.

While the above reasons seem to be quite specific to CCGs, I see no reason to think they could not, at least partially, be applied to Android: Netrunner. Although CCGs have the advantage of rare cards as prizes, they are essentially prize money! Most players who compete on a weekly basis have an extensive card pool. They do not compete to win new cards for themselves but to score expensive cards that they can sell for profit! By that logic, if FFG could supply prices at least on a bi-monthly basis, it could give players enough reason to compete weekly, giving a huge boost to the Android player scene. Giving the format of LCGs, however, these prizes should not to be card-related; so, the current playmat, token, etc prizes are a good start. Although, I can see rare, promotional cards to make their way into LCGs as well. Obviously FFG cannot introduce new cards just for tournaments, but they can release alternate versions of already existing cards, such as versions with new artwork or ones signed by the autor, etc.

The most crucial thing, however, I think would be a worldwide ranking database. Such a system would be a huge boost for the competitive scene and is certainly not limited to CCGs. With small to moderate investment, FFG can build a system that track players around the world, using a unique ID. This would also give the World Championship a whole new meaning, as only those players could compete in it whose ranking is high enough.

Anyways, I see no reason why Android could not become the next prominent card game out there. It just needs a little investment: a flow of cool prices and a worldwide ranking system, but it could really pick up! Plus, Android has a tremendous advantage over its competitiors: it is very unique and TREMENDOUS FUN TO PLAY! :)

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