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WizardThatDidIt

How Much XP expected?

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I've never been in a game that has gone that far, but just doing some very rough and ready maths:

Assume 400XP per game session, and assume that an Undertaking (a small Compact) takes two game sessions.

An Undertaking grants 3 Infamy for completion, plus 2 infamy for every secondary objective (and an Undertaking should have 4-6 of these), and let's say each player also has one Personal/Tertiary objective.

That means that in two game sessions a character will earn roughly 3 + (5x2) + 1d5 = about 16 Infamy.

This works out fairly nicely as 800XP for every 16 Infamy, or 50XP for every point of Infamy.

A character with minimum starting Infamy will need (75-20) = 55 Infamy to reach the Campaign Goal, if each point of Infamy requires on average 50XP worth of activity, then that means the players should rack up about 2,750XP before endgame. Of course this assumes a relatively rapid rate of Infamy acquisition relative to XP gain. This is also pure theorycraft, I'm not talking from personal experience.

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Chastity said:

I've never been in a game that has gone that far, but just doing some very rough and ready maths:

Assume 400XP per game session, and assume that an Undertaking (a small Compact) takes two game sessions.

An Undertaking grants 3 Infamy for completion, plus 2 infamy for every secondary objective (and an Undertaking should have 4-6 of these), and let's say each player also has one Personal/Tertiary objective.

That means that in two game sessions a character will earn roughly 3 + (5x2) + 1d5 = about 16 Infamy.

This works out fairly nicely as 800XP for every 16 Infamy, or 50XP for every point of Infamy.

A character with minimum starting Infamy will need (75-20) = 55 Infamy to reach the Campaign Goal, if each point of Infamy requires on average 50XP worth of activity, then that means the players should rack up about 2,750XP before endgame. Of course this assumes a relatively rapid rate of Infamy acquisition relative to XP gain. This is also pure theorycraft, I'm not talking from personal experience.

 

That was very handy of you to do, actually. I could use those numbers!
 

Huh, that's rather odd for the advanced Archetypes, then. They have 3,000-4,000 points of xp debt. I think they'll have to start the other guys off with that much, or wait for nothing but the advanced fellas in new books.

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Chastity said:

That means that in two game sessions a character will earn roughly 3 + (5x2) + 1d5 = about 16 Infamy.

Wow, this is extremely quick imfamy growth. Hand of Corruption gives players 17+tethiary objectives imfamy and it takes quite a lot of sessions to finish.
And how much cp will they amass in that time, beacuse it seems that they'll be leading a few black crusades before reaching 100.

Well, reverse engeneering the starting xp/imfamy/cp method it'll be:
5cp, 3 imfamy per 1000 xp which means 300-350 xp pew imfamy point. That nets you around 17000 xp till they reach 75 imfamy. All assuming they don't burn it.

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ShadowRay said:

Wow, this is extremely quick imfamy growth. Hand of Corruption gives players 17+tethiary objectives imfamy and it takes quite a lot of sessions to finish.

And how much cp will they amass in that time, beacuse it seems that they'll be leading a few black crusades before reaching 100.

It did look a bit fast - again I stress I'm working this out from pure maths, not from personal experience of running long-term games.

I think part of it is that I was working from the smallest level of Compact, which is actually (I think) the most efficient way to gain Infamy. I've not played or read Hand of Corruption, but it seems a bit at odds with the way the rules are actually set out on p270.

17 + Tertiaries doesn't seem to fit the pattern laid out in the Compacts rules at all. 2 Infamy per secondary objective, plus 3, 6 or 12 for the Compact means that it just doesn't fit the pattern. The best I can do is to make it a low-end Operation (6 secondaries + 6 for completion) which seems rather on the low side for sucking an *entire planet* into the Warp.

I think my maths was skewed because smaller Compacts are not only easier overall, but they're likely to have easier secondary objectives. If your overall goal is "assassinate this military official" then your secondary objectives are likely to be things like "subvert his guards", "disable his security" and possibly "damage his reputation to ensure he doesn't become a martyr", all of which can easily be achieved in a couple of game sessions as long as you play in a relatively focused way.

By contrast, if your Compact is something like "invade this star cluster" then each secondary objective might be an entire planetary conquest.

So I do think my original analysis was a considerable underestimate. Having said that, I don't think calculating based on starting XP is at all sensible - there's no reason to assume that XP gain in play will parallel XP gain in the downtime of a character's previous life (and how do you work out how much XP they gained *before* they turned to Chaos?).

Most of my experience with 40K RPGs has involved a quite focused playstyle (particularly in the mission-based games like Deathwatch and Black Crusade) so we tend to get through two or three secondary objectives per session (particularly in Deathwatch, where secondary objectives are often broken down to include both "find out who was behind this murder" and "eliminate the threat"). Because we play infrequently, we tend to assume quite a rapid rate of progression (although in this case it might make sense to be more generous with experience points as well).

As another data-point, on p290 the sidebar "Excessive Infamy" suggests that players should not be able to gain "more than 5 Infamy … in a single game session" from the Services to the Chaos Powers rules on p 289. While this wouldn't be gained every session, if the game is okay with the players gaining five *bonus* Infamy in a game session, they're probably expected to gain a similar amount of Infamy as standard.

So I think 350 XP per Infamy is an extreme upper limit, and 50XP per Infamy is an extreme lower limit.

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Further thoughts, with apologies for double-posting.

There's also the question of characters Burning Infamy to survive. A relatively fast-paced game with a high rate of Infamy gain might also expose the players to a large amount of physical danger, while a slow-paced game might involve significantly less risk to the PCs' lives and limbs.

Probably the best way to deal with this is to work out how quickly you want players to be achieving their secondary goals (my personal preference would be to hit at least one a session, otherwise it feels like you're just … well … not doing anything). At a rate of one Secondary Goal (i.e. 2 Infamy) per session, the characters will be racking up just under 11,000 XP before endgame.

 

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 The game I'm playing in right now is sitting at 1k exp per infamy. It feels a bit slow as far as the infamy goes, but we've had a good bit of talking during games. Our Heretics would rather discuss how to go about killing then to actually do it it seems.

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Thanks all for providing suggestions on this, it will definetly help me. Although, i am not conviced that you can actually set up a ratio of infamy and xp and then stick to it. There's no formula for xp-gain in the book and i believe this reflects the dynamic that is needed for giving xp.

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My GM gives us 100xp/hour of game. As we try to play when we have a lot of time available, we already reached 5000 xp. Infamy, he gives us more or less 3 per session.

But now he'll give us less xp, 'cause we hit important pints in the history. Probably 75 xp/hour

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