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Berning22

Proton Torpedoes

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 Why are proton torpedoes so expensive for a one shot deal?

Can you use them on someone that is not in your firing arc (you already have a lock on them)? If so, this may explain why they are 4 pts and only used once.

Thanks,

 

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 I'm pretty sure they can't be used unless the target you locked onto is in your firing arc.

I think the reason they can only be used once is because they do more damage than a regular attack, and it is more thematic.

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The rules suggest the you cant do this from outside firing arc, as you dont decide whether to use your target lock (generally) until after you roll attack dice (so the initial attack is as normal). Its not specific about when using proton torpedoes though. As a house rule I would say probably yes, as in my mind its like using a heat seeker, but i might put restrictions on the back 90 degrees (the missile might turn around and hit you). Having said that, in 4d space… this probably wouldnt be an issue…… my guess is that FFG would say no, though. Its not explicitly mentioned in the rules, so you can probably assume that unless otherwise stated, normal targetting rules apply…

If you send a rules clarification question to FFG please post their response here!

 

May the force be with you!

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R2D2 said:

The rules suggest the you cant do this from outside firing arc, as you dont decide whether to use your target lock (generally) until after you roll attack dice (so the initial attack is as normal). Its not specific about when using proton torpedoes though. As a house rule I would say probably yes, as in my mind its like using a heat seeker, but i might put restrictions on the back 90 degrees (the missile might turn around and hit you). Having said that, in 4d space… this probably wouldnt be an issue…… my guess is that FFG would say no, though. Its not explicitly mentioned in the rules, so you can probably assume that unless otherwise stated, normal targetting rules apply…

If you send a rules clarification question to FFG please post their response here!

 

May the force be with you!

No need for a rules question here.  Target Lock does not require you to use the firing arc.  However, using Proton Torpedoes does.  Proton Torpedoes lets you attack using 4 dice.  The enemy ship must be in range 2-3.  And lets you change one of your Focus results to a critical hit.  Everything else about the attack is the same as a normal attack.  You still must use the firing arc.

Roy

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drkjedi35 said:

R2D2 said:

 

The rules suggest the you cant do this from outside firing arc, as you dont decide whether to use your target lock (generally) until after you roll attack dice (so the initial attack is as normal). Its not specific about when using proton torpedoes though. As a house rule I would say probably yes, as in my mind its like using a heat seeker, but i might put restrictions on the back 90 degrees (the missile might turn around and hit you). Having said that, in 4d space… this probably wouldnt be an issue…… my guess is that FFG would say no, though. Its not explicitly mentioned in the rules, so you can probably assume that unless otherwise stated, normal targetting rules apply…

If you send a rules clarification question to FFG please post their response here!

 

May the force be with you!

 

 

No need for a rules question here.  Target Lock does not require you to use the firing arc.  However, using Proton Torpedoes does.  Proton Torpedoes lets you attack using 4 dice.  The enemy ship must be in range 2-3.  And lets you change one of your Focus results to a critical hit.  Everything else about the attack is the same as a normal attack.  You still must use the firing arc.

Roy

I agree that proton torpedoes require range 2-3 (as shown on the card). But this doesnt neccesarily mean that it requires the firing arc… something can be range 2-3 without being in the firing arc… As I said I would assume that its otherwise a normal attack, so requires firing arc (though this seems somewhat illogical), but the question could be asked as its not totally clear..

 

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R2D2 said:

I agree that proton torpedoes require range 2-3 (as shown on the card). But this doesnt neccesarily mean that it requires the firing arc… something can be range 2-3 without being in the firing arc… As I said I would assume that its otherwise a normal attack, so requires firing arc (though this seems somewhat illogical), but the question could be asked as its not totally clear..

I disagree. The wording of Proton Torpedoes is: "Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform the attack". So this is a regular attack with the values of the card, and thus also subject to all rules that apply to attacks, unless otherwise noted.

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haslo said:

I disagree. The wording of Proton Torpedoes is: "Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform the attack". So this is a regular attack with the values of the card, and thus also subject to all rules that apply to attacks, unless otherwise noted.

The biggest counter example that proves PT is a standard attack: "Ion Cannon Turret, Attack: Attack 1 ship (even a ship outside your firing arc) …"  Why would PT not be worded similarly if it was able to attack outside arc?

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I read ion cannon late last night after posting this question. It is clear then that you must use your firing arc when using proton torpedoes.

Are they worth it?

I like Marksmanship for 3pts. My son used this last night with Vader and it was very effective. You do not get 4 attack, but changing your all of your focus rolls to hit every turn is very good (1 is a critical). 

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With proton torpedoes dropping 4 dice on the attack, and that they essentially count as using focus on the attack (with the added benefit of 1 focus roll turning into a crit), I would say it is worth it, if only because its a pretty heavy certainty to do something meaningful.

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KommissarK said:

With proton torpedoes dropping 4 dice on the attack, and that they essentially count as using focus on the attack (with the added benefit of 1 focus roll turning into a crit), I would say it is worth it, if only because its a pretty heavy certainty to do something meaningful.

I was thinking something similar (as far as 4 attack dice), but being required to fire at a range of 2-3 means that you'll sometimes shoot at a TIE at range 3 who will get a defense bonus, making it 4 attack vs 4 defense. but then, I guess that's where the focus roll becoming a crit really gives the proton torpedoes a leg up.

Yeah, good thoughts, KommissarK!

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 On page 19 of the Rulebook under Secondary Weapons, third paragraph:

In addition to being inside the attacker’s firing arc, the closest point of the target ship’s base must fall within the weapon range shown on the card…

Proton Torpedoes do not have any wording that would make an exception to this rule (unlike Ion Cannons.)

And that's that. gran_risa.gif

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Budgernaut said:

I was thinking something similar (as far as 4 attack dice), but being required to fire at a range of 2-3 means that you'll sometimes shoot at a TIE at range 3 who will get a defense bonus, making it 4 attack vs 4 defense. but then, I guess that's where the focus roll becoming a crit really gives the proton torpedoes a leg up.

 

 

Actually, the extra defense die only applies to the primary weapon, so it's still 4 vs 3 at range 3. Yet another advantage. 

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Zembar_ said:

Budgernaut said:

I was thinking something similar (as far as 4 attack dice), but being required to fire at a range of 2-3 means that you'll sometimes shoot at a TIE at range 3 who will get a defense bonus, making it 4 attack vs 4 defense. but then, I guess that's where the focus roll becoming a crit really gives the proton torpedoes a leg up.

 Actually, the extra defense die only applies to the primary weapon, so it's still 4 vs 3 at range 3. Yet another advantage. 

I wanted to verify this, as it didn't seem correct to me, but it looks legit! "The defender resolves any card abilities that allow him to roll additional (or fewer) dice. Also, if he is targeted at Range 3 by the attacker’s primary weapon, he rolls 1 additional defense die."

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FallenTurtles said:

I wanted to verify this, as it didn't seem correct to me, but it looks legit! "The defender resolves any card abilities that allow him to roll additional (or fewer) dice. Also, if he is targeted at Range 3 by the attacker’s primary weapon, he rolls 1 additional defense die."

Wow… I'm actually a bit flabergasted on this one.  This is also supported by the summary rules on the last page which is "Range combat Bonus.  When attacking with a primary weapon: Range 1: + [Red Die] Range 3: + [Green Die]"

That does give the torpedoes a little extra oomph to them.

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My take away from this thread:

-Based on Pg. 19 of the rulebook and the Ion Cannon Text: Torps still have to count their arc as the P-Torp card does not exempt them form needing to be in Arc as the Ion Cannon text states.

-And also per pg. 10 of the Rulebook, Primary Weapon Dice rules do not apply to Secondary weapons.

I like the way this plays out.  A ship not getting a bonus die to evade at long range makes sense since these are supposed to be guided weapons, not a direct fire weapon that takes time to reach the target and only flies straight giving the target time to move out of the way.  Also, that they require an already established target lock fits the guided weapon idea too.

-DavicusPrime

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 I find the Concussion Missile a better buy.  It's suplementary ability isn't as good, but since it is basically a proton torpedo that you can equip on a TIE advanced, it raises attack dice from 2 to 4 instead of 3 to 4.  I also wonder if hitting your enemy really hard for a single hit is better when you are fighitng a few x-wings and y-wings rather than a swarm of TIEs.

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Zembar_ said:

 

Budgernaut said:

I was thinking something similar (as far as 4 attack dice), but being required to fire at a range of 2-3 means that you'll sometimes shoot at a TIE at range 3 who will get a defense bonus, making it 4 attack vs 4 defense. but then, I guess that's where the focus roll becoming a crit really gives the proton torpedoes a leg up.

 

 

Actually, the extra defense die only applies to the primary weapon, so it's still 4 vs 3 at range 3. Yet another advantage. 

 

 

Holy cow! Totally missed that rule! Now I'm super stoked to run a 3-Y-wing squad!

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Hrathen said:

 I also wonder if the proton torpeodes are not a better deal on your y-wings since they only start with 2 attack dice

I think so. Especially on Horton Salm. 

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 P-Torps are going to be very good for Y's as Hrathen said.  Double the dice with potential bonus damage.  Also it allows them to hit long range with much greater potential of making it count.  And since they can take 2 per ship, that only adds to their potential effectiveness.

I would suspect that they'll work best against unshielded ships though.  Have an X knock down the target's shields and let the Y-Finish him off.

-DavicusPrime

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DavicusPrime said:

 P-Torps are going to be very good for Y's as Hrathen said.  Double the dice with potential bonus damage.  Also it allows them to hit long range with much greater potential of making it count.  And since they can take 2 per ship, that only adds to their potential effectiveness.

I would suspect that they'll work best against unshielded ships though.  Have an X knock down the target's shields and let the Y-Finish him off.

-DavicusPrime

I got very excited and started loading out Y-wings with lots of goodies.  But 2 p-torps and an ion-turret const 13 points.  That is a TIE fighter by itself just on upgrades.  But if that y-wing can kill two TIEs and mess with a third, then it should be worth it.

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