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Warboss Krag

Fixing Laser Grenadiers

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Meaning you got lucky. Normal dice rolls make laser grenadiers (you will note I advocate no changes to the heavies) not worth the 21 points. Every other squad that has such a short range shoots more often (shotguns, or Sov assault rifles) and usually has grenades or some such to damage vehicles (and often nerf cover). My first Warfare battle I got lucky with the lasers, too, but I knew that it was luck, and they've rarely been worth the 21 points since. (Please note that my opponents aren't stupid enough to allow me to get Sustained Attacks with said unit, either - they know what happens if I do.)

The least FFG could do is knock the laser grenadiers' point value down to, say, 14.

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Warboss Krag said:

Meaning you got lucky. Normal dice rolls make laser grenadiers (you will note I advocate no changes to the heavies) not worth the 21 points. Every other squad that has such a short range shoots more often (shotguns, or Sov assault rifles) and usually has grenades or some such to damage vehicles (and often nerf cover). My first Warfare battle I got lucky with the lasers, too, but I knew that it was luck, and they've rarely been worth the 21 points since. (Please note that my opponents aren't stupid enough to allow me to get Sustained Attacks with said unit, either - they know what happens if I do.)

The least FFG could do is knock the laser grenadiers' point value down to, say, 14.

Thanks for downgrading my tactical ability, but no it was not luck.  They are ok as is if used correctly. Thankfully our axis players know how to use them so I don't hear the useless whine from them, but I did need to see it for myself and they're fine.

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blkdymnd said:

 Not to mention, when everyone else is struggling to wound Winter Child, all the axis players will be happy their lasers can cut right through him.

Bah, UGLs will handle Armor 4 Infantry just fine.

And didn't you just prove our point? Lasers can be useful, but you have to design your entire platoon around making them so :) Or, you'll need to attach a hero to the squad so it can survive long enough for some sustained attacks. I think our argument is that to use a lot of the cool Axis units, you need to design the rest of your platoon around supporting them. You have to design a laser platoon, a gorilla platoon, or a zombie platoon. You're not just bringing those units along for the ride. 

For comparison, I think the Allies benefit from having fantastic stand alone units that can get mixed together in more creative fashions. SSU looks to also bring a number of specialized units, but time will tell whether the Commissars give them enough flexibility, or if we'll just see the same lists popping up over and over again.

In conclusion, the Axis units look badass and I thoroughly enjoy the way they look on the table!

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 I didn't desIgn the platoon around them because I had to. Per most of these posters, lasers are useless ergo a whole platoon of lasers would be ultra useless.  They weren't, they were fine and played commendably.  I could have mixed it up a bit and they still would have been just fine.

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My point being that as they stand laser grenadiers don't work well unless they can deliver sustained fire attacks at close range (which is all the range they have). That means they need a hero with them to allow them to survive long enough to deliver, as well as getting rid of the inevitable suppression they should pick up along the way.

A large game is more favorable for their deployment; in smaller games, there aren't enough other units threatening the enemy to allow the laser grenadiers to get close enough to do their work. I note that the game in question where they did so well, was a large game where the lasers had that necessary bulk of other targets to soak for them. Since I usually play 200-250 point games, I usually end up with the choice between getting the laser grenadiers or a Heinrich walker…hands down, the Heinrich with its flakvierling.

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 I think we've covered this before. The lasers are great as a second unit to back up your front line units. Against lvl 3 infantry, BBQ boys, and light vehicles these guys rock. Against standard lvl 2 infantry swarms and medium walkers they stink.

They work fine but I do agree that the statistics favor the phasers just a bit over the lasers. It would different if you could force a reroll on an opponent but you can't and that makes the phasers extras good because there is no reliable defense against them other than their crap range.

Also so far the axis flyer doesn't seem to have lasers, just machine guns and some underwing hardware. 

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