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FFG_Sam Stewart

Character Creation Feedback Thread

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GM Chris said:

Zar said:

 

what I would think 

 

 

gui%C3%B1o.gif  See.  That's the kicker.  What you would think is not what I or other GMs might think.  Other GM's might think that the 500 cred starting equipment is just fine.  Others won't. 

The game can't cater to everyone… so what to do?

That's why I like the idea of starting it low.  Because the FFG police won't come to your house and take your dice away if you give your players 1000 creds to start with.  gran_risa.gif  Nor will your players mind.

But your players will more likely take issue with a GM saying, "Y'know… 1000 creds is too much… so I'm going to reduce it…"  "WHAT?? BUT IT SAYS in the book RIGHT HERE that we start with 1000!!!!"

No player's going to whine that you're UPPING the starting limit, however. 

As one of his players, no we wouldnt.

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In repitition, I am fine with 500 being the printed value, however I think this deserves a sidebar in the book talking about providing your players with starting equipment, extra credits, exhange options etc.  That way, like some of the other 'optional GM rules' it has the air of semi-legal that makes it easier for a GM to do, or just gives them the idea where they might have just run with the 500 because "its what it says" rather then because it's how they want their game to go.

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$hamrock said:

Hell, the chick that does the donkey show in Tijuana doesn't get paid but 20 bucks on some nights.  She makes no wage, just tips, yet desperation drove her to do THAT.  When i think of the outter rims, these places come to mind.  

Now I'm pretty **** sure that this isn't the Star Wars game for me…

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I'm going to chime in on this as well. As with some of the people here,  I like only giving 500 creds. My group was shocked at first, but after I explained that they could get more creds with Obligation, they didn't mind so much. Of the 6 of them, half of them opted to raised their Obligation for more credits. The other three were too skittish about how Obligations would haunt them to raise it. They just bought bare minimum equipment. Each one still managed to end up with some sort of weapon though.

In the adventure, they were extremely strapped for cash. But being so, was a real motivator for the group. Being poor convinced them to complete the mission. It also drove them to save the Hutt. It also helped  tie in some of the motivations of the characters.

SO, for me and my group it's perfect and don't think they should change it.

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Fechik said:

In the adventure, they were extremely strapped for cash. But being so, was a real motivator for the group. Being poor convinced them to…

Now I can't help but picture this ending with "… participate in a Tatooine Bantha Show for 20 credits in tips."

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Fechik said:

I'm going to chime in on this as well. As with some of the people here,  I like only giving 500 creds. My group was shocked at first, but after I explained that they could get more creds with Obligation, they didn't mind so much. Of the 6 of them, half of them opted to raised their Obligation for more credits. The other three were too skittish about how Obligations would haunt them to raise it. They just bought bare minimum equipment. Each one still managed to end up with some sort of weapon though.

In the adventure, they were extremely strapped for cash. But being so, was a real motivator for the group. Being poor convinced them to complete the mission. It also drove them to save the Hutt. It also helped  tie in some of the motivations of the characters.

SO, for me and my group it's perfect and don't think they should change it.

One of the fun things for me as a GM during character creation was to keep reminding players that they could get more shiny things if they upped their obligation and the next minute I would remind players that obligations would bite them on the arse at some point (which is how I have always played the dark side, with a constant whispering voice), most of my players took extra obligation for XP and/or credits, the party now has an obligation of 90, which gives me lots of story potential based on the characters choices.

I think the idea of keeping them broke and hungry fits this type of setting very well.  However, they do start with a ship which I feel should come with its own obligation attached (but as its not in the beta I won't be adding a house rule just yet).

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I wasn't sure where to post this and its been mentioned in so many other locations but since this is the Character Creation thread…

If FFG were to include more Species in the final draft of this game, which additional Species would we want FFG to include:

I know Duros and Bith would be two on my list, and from the Adversaries chapter it wouldn't be all that difficult to determine what Mon Calamari and Defel species abilities would be… but I think I would want them to include Kel Dor, Cereans, Sulustans, Zabrak, Ithorians, Gammoreans, and Quarrens. For a variety sake I wouldn't mind species like Barabel, Lurmen, and Zygerrian species. I think those would be really cool, and a nice switch to some of the standard species…

So I would want to add the following 8 Species:

Duros, Bith, Mon Calamari, Barabel, Lurmen, Zygerrian, and Sulustans.

What about some of your wanted picks?

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Stacie_GmrGrl said:

 

I wasn't sure where to post this and its been mentioned in so many other locations but since this is the Character Creation thread…

If FFG were to include more Species in the final draft of this game, which additional Species would we want FFG to include:

I know Duros and Bith would be two on my list, and from the Adversaries chapter it wouldn't be all that difficult to determine what Mon Calamari and Defel species abilities would be… but I think I would want them to include Kel Dor, Cereans, Sulustans, Zabrak, Ithorians, Gammoreans, and Quarrens. For a variety sake I wouldn't mind species like Barabel, Lurmen, and Zygerrian species. I think those would be really cool, and a nice switch to some of the standard species…

So I would want to add the following 8 Species:

Duros, Bith, Mon Calamari, Barabel, Lurmen, Zygerrian, and Sulustans.

What about some of your wanted picks?

 

 

I fall into the "needs more species variety" camp.  Even my players suggest that it has the same numbers of "races" as D&D and that it doesn't feel like star wars with such a limited number.  12-16 would feel better and give more choice. 

As to your suggestions, you have to keep in mind that there are 2 more systems coming out… one dealing with Warriors and The Republic, and the other dealing with Jedi.   Some of the species you mention would fall into those two books a bit better.  For instance Mon Cal and Sulustans should prob. go with the Republic.  Gammor, and barabel too considering the "warrior" natures.   The KelDor Cereans are typically associated with Jedi.  For this, I tend to think more "outter rim" that wont fit in elsewhere…. Quarrens, Snaggletooths, Chandra Fin, Ugnaughts, ithorians, Kubaz… those kinda peeps. Not saying that the others wouldn't be awesome to have, but just kinda putting them in logical places.    Also, I have no clue how much "expanded universe" they are going to use.  Bothans were at least mentioned in the movies, but the Barabel may not make it in, at all.

Just my .02,

PS I'm sorry, I'm really tired and I become a bit of a typetard when that happens.  My spelling/name choices for some of those species is gonna suck.

 

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There is Barabel, Mon Cal and Defel adversaries in the back of the book so we do know they are looking at other species and have their basic species stats, and some of the species information only takes up half a page, at most, so it probably shouldn't be to much of a stretch to include more in the final product. I just don't think 8 is enough. This IS Star Wars… we should have many more options than what we have. Just my opinion. :)

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For Core species to be added, I'd like to see Duros, Devaronians, Sullustans, and Zabrak.  The first three are fairly iconic to Star Wars thanks to the Cantina scene, and the later seems to have become quite popular even though they got their start in the prequels.  They also have a fairly good reason to be hanging out on the galactic fringe.

I don't think FFG needs to cover every single species in the first product, as they can always add more either in the later core sets or (preferably) in a supplement, much how WEG and WotC only gave us a dozen or so "core species" in the main book and then releasing an "alien anthology" down the line.  The Saga Edition line was the only version of a Star Wars RPG to not have a specific species book, but rather sought to include a bunch of new species with each product (only the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide didn't have any new species stat blocks, while Threats of the Galaxy had a few tucked away inside).

Admittedly, Cyril and I probably going overboard with the list of species that we're compiling, but maybe better to have too many than not enough, eh?gran_risa.gif

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I would love to see the number of species increased to 12. I would also like to see the Droid pulled from EotE (for now), at least until the rules for them are polished a bit more and a way of presenting all of the various degrees of droids as PCs could be put together. I think that all of the degrees of Droids (as PCs and NPCs) could go into a single expansion quite nicely.

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HappyDaze said:

I would love to see the number of species increased to 12. I would also like to see the Droid pulled from EotE (for now), at least until the rules for them are polished a bit more and a way of presenting all of the various degrees of droids as PCs could be put together. I think that all of the degrees of Droids (as PCs and NPCs) could go into a single expansion quite nicely.

Well, I'd imagine the final versions of Droids will be seeing some degree of refinement between the Beta release and the final product.

Personally, I'd like to see Droid PCs opened up to something other than just 4th degree droids.  Maybe something akin to d20's "Droid Class Template" system, with Droids getting a characteristic boost or two based on their class.  That way, they're not quite as much behind the 8-ball as they are currently, at least in terms of starting-level PCs.

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Donovan Morningfire said:

HappyDaze said:

 

I would love to see the number of species increased to 12. I would also like to see the Droid pulled from EotE (for now), at least until the rules for them are polished a bit more and a way of presenting all of the various degrees of droids as PCs could be put together. I think that all of the degrees of Droids (as PCs and NPCs) could go into a single expansion quite nicely.

 

 

Well, I'd imagine the final versions of Droids will be seeing some degree of refinement between the Beta release and the final product.

Personally, I'd like to see Droid PCs opened up to something other than just 4th degree droids.  Maybe something akin to d20's "Droid Class Template" system, with Droids getting a characteristic boost or two based on their class.  That way, they're not quite as much behind the 8-ball as they are currently, at least in terms of starting-level PCs.

That's a fine suggestion and would go a ways towards balancing Droids as a character option. I'd still rather have Droids out for the basic EotE rulebook and a few new species in (enough to bring the starting options to 10 or 12). Save Droids for an expansion that can fully flesh them out with the various degrees covered, as well as better information on Droid-specific gear, RP tips for Droids, and a few bits on Droids' rolls in society of the Rim (possibly in other areas too if it's intended to be usable with all three game lines).

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I don't have people consistently requesting to play a Twi'lek or a Bothan, but in just about every campaign I've run (and I've run a lot) there is usually one person who wants to play a droid so having them in is a plus for me. And the current approach doesn't suck. Saga tried to treat droids as "equipment-like" characters and it flopped. What FFG is doing is far better, in my opinion, so just a bit of tweaking would be fine with me.

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I'm fairly sure that this is where editing issues go.  I have two for yous (FFG).  Both in this chapter.

1) A clarity issue.   Page 32, In the Example Obligation Check…. last paragraph, second sentence.  Lowhhrick needs to be added to "Oskara and Pash".  He is identified as a subject in the former paragraphs, but ignored in this paragraph. It's common sense to add him, but a person "new" to role playing may be confused or take the text as "the Word of God".

2) the Week one update- page 1, Chapter II: Creating a Character:  Assembling the Group's Obligation (page 31).   You suggest that the obligation be assembled from highest to lowest.  If you add this to the book, your examples on pages 31 and 32 should reflect this. They don't! 

 

Hope it helps.

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 this week I ran into one difficult factor with character creation, Players joining a group my first session there where 4 players so recommended 15 base obligation with a max of 30 if they took cash and free xp.

then this week another player joined I wasen't sure before hand how many people where going to be able to make it so I kept it with 4 but now I have 5 players possible one more once he gets some free time so each persons obligation should be lower, but that also lowers there maximum which would bring down there xp or starting credits. 

I know some groups are very set, the same few people every session but I know I am not alone in often having a variable number of players, real life concerns frequently interfere and its not unusual for atleast one person to be unable to make it, with a mechanic so tied into group size it makes things a bit difficult.

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Librarian said:

 this week I ran into one difficult factor with character creation, Players joining a group my first session there where 4 players so recommended 15 base obligation with a max of 30 if they took cash and free xp.

then this week another player joined I wasen't sure before hand how many people where going to be able to make it so I kept it with 4 but now I have 5 players possible one more once he gets some free time so each persons obligation should be lower, but that also lowers there maximum which would bring down there xp or starting credits. 

I know some groups are very set, the same few people every session but I know I am not alone in often having a variable number of players, real life concerns frequently interfere and its not unusual for atleast one person to be unable to make it, with a mechanic so tied into group size it makes things a bit difficult.

Keep with the 15, all players should be treated equally.  When you add it all up, and put it into play, if they are over 100, then so be it, they have to deal with it or not be able to spend xp.  It isn't a punishment, it's a game mechanic to help you, the GM, with adventure ideas, and the players to stay focused.  If the 5th or 6th wheel bring about the step over 100, then guess what said adventure is going to be about?  I think of it more like a reputation thing, when P. Manning went to the Bronco's, we all knew about it- even if we didn't like football.  The PCs are kinda like that. When they get together, the sum is greater then the parts. 

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 I have a question about the human errata from week 1.  I'd post it there, but figure I'm more likely to get a response here.

The errata reads: ".. start the game with access to one additional rank in each of two different non-career skills of their choice."  This is limited to career skills, just as it reads and does not restrict specialization skills, right?

For example, a human smuggler with thief as their first spec could use their species bonus to get a rank in stealh, since stealth is a specialization skill and not a career skill.  They would be unable to use their ability to purchase a rank in Skulduggery, because even though it is a spec skill as well, it is also a career skill. 

Do I have this right?

Thanks again, and sorry if this was asked and answered somewhere else, didn't see it on a quick scan of the Week 1 forum.

 

-WJL

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 I'm probably wrong, but I was under the impression that skills under a specialization became career skills. I guess what I'm saying is that I thought that there were only two types of skills, career and non-career skills.

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LethalDose said:

I have a question about the human errata from week 1.  I'd post it there, but figure I'm more likely to get a response here.

The errata reads: ".. start the game with access to one additional rank in each of two different non-career skills of their choice."  This is limited to career skills, just as it reads and does not restrict specialization skills, right?

For example, a human smuggler with thief as their first spec could use their species bonus to get a rank in stealh, since stealth is a specialization skill and not a career skill.  They would be unable to use their ability to purchase a rank in Skulduggery, because even though it is a spec skill as well, it is also a career skill. 

Do I have this right?

-WJL

Nope, as the moment you take a specialization, the skills listed under that specialization become career skills.

Page 64, the 2nd paragraph under Skill Training notes the following:

"The cost for training skills falls under one of two categories - career skills and non-career skills."
(emphasis mine)

Also, the specialization pages even list the extra skills provided as "bonus career skills," again a fairly strong indication that they're counted as career skills vs. being non-career skills.

Seems pretty indicative that skills gained from a Specialization fall under career skills.

The primary exception would any Specializations purchased with your starting XP budget, as I believe the Human bonus skill ranks are chosen after selecting your career and specialization, but before you start spending your character's free XP.

The other would be the Insight talent under Force Exile, as that makes Perception and Vigilance into class skills, so if your starting career didn't have either of those, you could spend your Human bonus ranks on them, then buy the Insight talent to make them career skills.

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Donovan Morningfire said:

 

 

Nope, as the moment you take a specialization, the skills listed under that specialization become career skills.

Page 64, the 2nd paragraph under Skill Training notes the following:

"The cost for training skills falls under one of two categories - career skills and non-career skills."

Perfect!  That's exactly what I needed.  Thanks for the clarification, DM.

 

-WJL

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