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chals

Sorceros VS psyker

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 With the Sacrifice talent you replace whatever phenomena/perils and the body go boom instead. No actual rolling. So you won't summon a daemon when using the talent.

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BrotharTearer said:

 With the Sacrifice talent you replace whatever phenomena/perils and the body go boom instead. No actual rolling. So you won't summon a daemon when using the talent.

 

Well - does it not also mean whatever comes out of it, will go into the victim, so a Demon or whatever will still pop out, but not kill me thou, but we will still have a pissed bloodletter/Great unclean one on our hands.. 

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chals said:

BrotharTearer said:

 

 With the Sacrifice talent you replace whatever phenomena/perils and the body go boom instead. No actual rolling. So you won't summon a daemon when using the talent.

 

 

 

Well - does it not also mean whatever comes out of it, will go into the victim, so a Demon or whatever will still pop out, but not kill me thou, but we will still have a pissed bloodletter/Great unclean one on our hands.. 

Not according to the rules. Just little damage or more damage with warpfire.

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That's just for the psychic test. Failure of those often very, very difficult checks grants Contempt of the Warp, which isn't covered by your sacrifice's burning.

At +10 per DoF, a bad roll on the ritual can put a free-from-mastery daemon where you stand, including whatever great-unclean-one you wanted to summon

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Kiton said:

That's just for the psychic test. Failure of those often very, very difficult checks grants Contempt of the Warp, which isn't covered by your sacrifice's burning.

At +10 per DoF, a bad roll on the ritual can put a free-from-mastery daemon where you stand, including whatever great-unclean-one you wanted to summon

It's not a ritual, i.e Contempt of the Warp does not apply. It's using a talent to lower the risk to yourself in case of phenomena/perils (if you view potential damage as lower risk than random results on those two tables).

So, for clarity: Using the Sacrifice talent is not a ritual, which means your whole argument is moot.

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chals said:

So when I and my team is fightin 4+ space marine and I use some psykisk power - and somehoe sommen a Greator deamon or The Great Unclean one, We will surely all survice?? Might even be a horde of Imp. Gard and I sommen a blodletter - the Odds or killing body´s and my self are quite big. 

 

Nobody said using unfettered psyker powers casually is smart. But there are only three circumstances where you are going to be under risk:

1- You love to blow up things with MIND BULLETS!!! and can't resist pushing it to the limit. In which case, I recommend Warp Lock and Thrall Wizards.

2- You are a super duper nice guy Batman of Chaos who would NEEVERRR consider killing a helpless enemy (and there's a lot of enemies in 40k who very few people would feel bad about executing).

3- You don't have enough XP for Sacrificial Slaughterer yet…

 

 

Sacrifice up some leftovers from a fight to get all the buffs you need, then go crazy.

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Nothing stops people from picking up Warp Lock and Favored by the Warp and just going nuts, but never forget many powers are practically as good used Fettered as Pushed.

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Seeten said:

Nothing stops people from picking up Warp Lock and Favored by the Warp and just going nuts, but never forget many powers are practically as good used Fettered as Pushed.

Indeed, some powers get no benefit at *all* from being Pushed.

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Chastity said:

Seeten said:

 

Nothing stops people from picking up Warp Lock and Favored by the Warp and just going nuts, but never forget many powers are practically as good used Fettered as Pushed.

 

 

Indeed, some powers get no benefit at *all* from being Pushed.

Then there's a few powers which gets *massive* benefits from being pushed. Like Warptime (more PR = higher unnatural characteristics), Force Storm (more raw damage, which is important due to no penetration), Sunder the Veil (more daemons who stay longer) and Delude (+5 x PR to interaction tests), Telekinetic Shield (more PR is more AP) for example. Powers which have has a big, direct impact from higher PR gains a lot by pushing as you can see.

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Warptime is nice because, besides getting Unnat Agi/WS/BS 10 at char creation, its one of the fire and forget powers, just do a sacrifice once and you're good.

I'm extremely pleased by that Bane of Worlds Exalted power in Tome of Fate, simply because it lets you give your offensive psi-powers the warp weapon trait, and thus don't need to push, but if you do, you can totally crumple up baneblades and (I think) titans. Now we know how alpha psykers do it.

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What does it help if you can be in front line battle, BUT only have 10+1d6 HP + 3-6 From Tuftnes and a bit from armor VS 15+1d6+6-12 from UN Toftnes and 8(?) from Spacemarine armor/with the ability to use Terminator 

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BrotharTearer said:

Then there's a few powers which gets *massive* benefits from being pushed. Like Warptime (more PR = higher unnatural characteristics), Force Storm (more raw damage, which is important due to no penetration), Sunder the Veil (more daemons who stay longer) and Delude (+5 x PR to interaction tests), Telekinetic Shield (more PR is more AP) for example. Powers which have has a big, direct impact from higher PR gains a lot by pushing as you can see.

Oh absolutely, which is why Pushing is sometimes so very very useful and so very very tempting. I was just pointing out that there are some really nasty powers that you can use at the Fettered level with no real loss in utility (Leper's Curse springs to mind - you get a 20% chance of one-shotting anything at virtually no risk to yourself).

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Most Opposed Willpower Focus Power tests usually don't need unfettered or pushing (unless the power effect has something which is affected by PR directly), because you're going to have such good modifiers already.

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Sacrifice takes time (quite a lot of it if you count it in rounds). It cannot be effectively used in combat situation, it can, however, be used to prepare some easily sustainable powers or use personal augry (which you can also spam fettered which I find much quicker to do).

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 As I am not gona play some Organised Imperial role, and with the party I am playing with, there will not be much "planing" - or sometimes there will be, but always goes SO wrong in every way your can think of - So psyker is not an option if you need planing… 

 

Is there any skills/powers you will sugest to take(I was thinking neutral socseror) - and that might help taint a planet Or/And course Massive corruption whitout to much intrige and undercover work.. (like corroption the ecclesiacy) - but commenors that just dont know better

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chals said:

What does it help if you can be in front line battle, BUT only have 10+1d6 HP + 3-6 From Tuftnes and a bit from armor VS 15+1d6+6-12 from UN Toftnes and 8(?) from Spacemarine armor/with the ability to use Terminator 

A lascannon or autocannon will probably kill both of them the same, and you can start with light power armor (armor 7). Both CSM and human heretics can use terminator armor just fine, its just a different model.

My perspective is basically… the psyker is basically the ONE archetype whose CSM version isn't equal or better at their offensive abilities than the human. I would always do one thing well than many things poorly. Proportionately, the CSM sorcerer seems much less attractive, and that's why I'd never choose the default sorcerer over the psyker.

Plus the Thousand Son Sorcerer is so **** cool comparison. Dat extra d10.

Is it just me, or is the Mark of Tzeentch supposed to make you Bound? Or is it supposed to be you only become Bound if you weren't a psyker yet?

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After all the times I've seen human psykers meet an early demise from their high rate of perils [more often than the whole party going down; most are wise enough to run when things go 'summoning'], I'd definitely side the other way.

The Chaos types aren't just better offensively. They start off tougher, healthier, fully trained and well equipped. You're going to want to get some of those talents and upgrades eventually, and they get to start with them.

Starting with one less Psy Rating, in exchange for being considered Bound and having all the marine bonuses, I'd say still puts the Sorcerer well ahead of the starting Psyker. Its not 500xp that's going to make it up. Besides, he can push more often and more safely anyways, which helps keep him on par.

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Kiton said:

After all the times I've seen human psykers meet an early demise from their high rate of perils [more often than the whole party going down; most are wise enough to run when things go 'summoning'], I'd definitely side the other way.

The Chaos types aren't just better offensively. They start off tougher, healthier, fully trained and well equipped. You're going to want to get some of those talents and upgrades eventually, and they get to start with them.

Starting with one less Psy Rating, in exchange for being considered Bound and having all the marine bonuses, I'd say still puts the Sorcerer well ahead of the starting Psyker. Its not 500xp that's going to make it up. Besides, he can push more often and more safely anyways, which helps keep him on par.

 

Your Logic and Reasoning is like Sweet sugur to me ^^ Now I jet need to come up with a Great baggrund story and fund the most usefull (most used) Talents for my First ever Psyker like Charekter

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Ezrekiel the Mad Prophet said:

PhilipSibberingSpaceMarineHeights.jpg

Stretching the X axis? How innovative  

 

If you want to see what Space Marines look like outnof their armour, look at the graph in the Black Templars codex that shows one. 

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