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GoblynByte

Characteristic Caps…

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This gives me a moment for pause… the cap on characteristics is 5 during character creation and 6 after that. I haven't yet found if there are any exceptions to that rule. Does that mean that a human can reach a Brawn of 6 to equal the strength of a Wookiee?  I mean, I suppose that since a Wookiee starts with a Brawn of 3 compared to a human's 2 the human is going to have to pay out the nose to reach that same level, but still… eeehhhhh… I'm a bit itchy on this.  Am I missing a nuance here?

 

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Yeah this occurred to me too. In the old WEG stuff they had really low numbers like this also, but Humans could have D2-D4… While a wookie was able to get D5 or something (cannot remember actual number). Same was true with some of other stats… Rodians were D5 max Dex I think, etc.

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I don't see it as a huge issue.  It's SOOOOO expensive for the human to do that… (and considering you might get 10 or 15 XP per session…)

But if one of my players wanted to blow his wad on "wookiee strength", sure!  He's a giant, 7 foot tall, musclebound Conan of a behemoth leviathan.  But he's also a one-trick pony.  gui%C3%B1o.gif

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GM Chris said:

I don't see it as a huge issue.  It's SOOOOO expensive for the human to do that… (and considering you might get 10 or 15 XP per session…)

But if one of my players wanted to blow his wad on "wookiee strength", sure!  He's a giant, 7 foot tall, musclebound Conan of a behemoth leviathan.  But he's also a one-trick pony.  gui%C3%B1o.gif

It's kind of the beauty of multiple advancement options rather than a set progression of stats and abilities.  Sure you can try to game the system through lopsided advancement, but neglect will come home to roost :-). 

The day your astromech droid gets blasted while trying to hotwire the shield generator complex door…you're going to be glad you picked up an advance and some skill training in that area because you can't always count on Chewie to have taken over an AT-ST walker and save your bacon.

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GM Chris said:

I don't see it as a huge issue.  It's SOOOOO expensive for the human to do that… (and considering you might get 10 or 15 XP per session…)

But if one of my players wanted to blow his wad on "wookiee strength", sure!  He's a giant, 7 foot tall, musclebound Conan of a behemoth leviathan.  But he's also a one-trick pony.  gui%C3%B1o.gif

The more I think about it the more I tend to agree. It is going to cost a LOT for a human to reach that level.

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GoblynByte said:

 

GM Chris said:

 

I don't see it as a huge issue.  It's SOOOOO expensive for the human to do that… (and considering you might get 10 or 15 XP per session…)

But if one of my players wanted to blow his wad on "wookiee strength", sure!  He's a giant, 7 foot tall, musclebound Conan of a behemoth leviathan.  But he's also a one-trick pony.  gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

 

The more I think about it the more I tend to agree. It is going to cost a LOT for a human to reach that level.

 

 

 

The Human at 4 spent 70 XP to the Wookie's 40. The Wookie would spend all 90 XP to get his brawn to 5, while the Human would need 120.  Remember that, except through Talents at the high end of the Talent Tree, after CharGen you cannot raise your natural characteristics.  That said, a Human at a 4 Brawn is going to have 40 XP to spend on other stuff, while a Wookie at 4 Brawn is going to have 50 XP to spend on other stuff. So, that Strong Human is, ultimately, not going to be as good as a weak wookie, especially if you consider that there are specialization builds where teh Wookie would get 2 in brawl for FREE. Sure, he cannot buy more…but..a Human in the same would have 1 Brawl free, and have to spend 10-15 XP to buy it to 2, while the Wookie, again, has the Brawl at 2 free, and can put the same XP the human spent into something else, maybe an extra pair of Level 1 Talents? Now, true, with cybernetic implants, the human MIGHT be able to match a wookie for strength…but, is he really just a human at that point?

Note: I have not yet begun to sit down trying to break the system yet…but..this is the kind of things I think about. All this above tells me that Wookies are the best NATURAL melee combatants.

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GM Chris said:

All this above tells me that Wookies are the best NATURAL melee combatants.

 

 

As it should be!

Well, I dare say a Noghri should be able to give mister hairball wookiee a good run for his money. Even though he is a lot smaller.

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Jegergryte said:

GM Chris said:

 

All this above tells me that Wookies are the best NATURAL melee combatants.

 

 

As it should be!

 

 

Well, I dare say a Noghri should be able to give mister hairball wookiee a good run for his money. Even though he is a lot smaller.

Can't WAIT to see the Noghri stats!  LOL…  

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I think we should try to re-create important NPC based on rule as given.

1. it help us to test the character creation rule.

2. It help to give us better grasp on how the system can handle a potential higher end of character.

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Shakespearian_Soldier said:

Noghri would be cool. :) But I really want to see the stats for important NPCs - interesting to see how they replicate Vader using this system (though, obviously, he would be created using the third book).

Wait, what?!?!?  Vader is in there?!?!?  I need to go find my freakin' book!!!!!

 

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Qingtian said:

Also Characteristics cannot be increased after character creation, unless you have run into a talent that allow you to increase a characteristics.

 

That is correct, and Talents can not increase them above a 6…

 

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The thing is, humans really can't begin play with Brawn at 5, they just don't have the xp (30+40+50 = 120). So for a human to get Brawn 6 would take getting 2 dedication talents (bare minimum 115xp spent, and thats assuming they spend their remaining 40xp from chargen on things like talents leading to Dedication), and putting them both into the same characteristic. A wookie on the other hand, can start with a Brawn of 5 (40+50 = 90), and it would take only one dedication talent to hit Brawn 6 (so minimum 75xp after chargen).

Now, as far as both of them having the same maximum… I see what you're shooting for with that, but I think it makes the game needlessly complicated. I'm realizing now this is a highly narrative system, and getting that much detail (e.g. something to the order of Wookies have an improved max Brawn characteristic of 7) just makes the game complicated.

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KommissarK said:

The thing is, humans really can't begin play with Brawn at 5, they just don't have the xp (30+40+50 = 120). So for a human to get Brawn 6 would take getting 2 dedication talents (bare minimum 115xp spent, and thats assuming they spend their remaining 40xp from chargen on things like talents leading to Dedication), and putting them both into the same characteristic. A wookie on the other hand, can start with a Brawn of 5 (40+50 = 90), and it would take only one dedication talent to hit Brawn 6 (so minimum 75xp after chargen).

Now, as far as both of them having the same maximum… I see what you're shooting for with that, but I think it makes the game needlessly complicated. I'm realizing now this is a highly narrative system, and getting that much detail (e.g. something to the order of Wookies have an improved max Brawn characteristic of 7) just makes the game complicated.

A human taking an extra Obligation (+10 XP) could start with Brawn 5 (and the other attributes at 2).

The idea of different attribute "minimums" and "maximums" is interesting. For some species (used as character races in other games) the a cap of 6 could be too limiting (Brawn fot Togorians maybe?). Beside I think that the strongest Wookie should be able to beat the strongest Human any day…

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Yeah - without having looked at Warhammer 3d. Ed.in comparison to the upcoming Star Wars. Its not the same having Dwarfs, Humans and Elves dice-wise and a giant elephant-man, a silicon based creature and a rabbit. There HAS to be some kind of major MIN and MAX. A orangutan is able to perform feats, that a world-class strongman and athlete could only dream to achieve (like lifting his 200+ pound body with ease while peeling a banana and swinging through vines). A strong Wookie is NOT the same as a strong Human - period. In D6 WEG - Wookies could go up to 6D6 - while "unaugmented" human would stuck at 4D6. This gave the Wookies the "narrative and mechanical" background they needed to convince people that they were able to rip apart a gamorrean guard. While I welcome the idea of a strong narrative story. They should not forget that having a small human with a beard and a drinking problem, or a slim one with pointy ears is the same as a ape-like tree-dweller with climbing claws and a living crystal with no physical feature whatsoever. In my opinion, this diversity made star wars so special.

 

They are using different dice - why not use different dice for "superhuman characteristics" and "substandard characteristic" - like giving the Wookie the same basic mechanic, but with a dice that is "legendary/strong" - that has a better chance to pull over impressive stunts. While in social aspects, having the "weak" die, for all things that would relate to charisma-based actions. Therefore circumventing the whole issue with just 2 more dice *cough*. This would give the caps meaning. A Wookie with strength 3 would still be more potent than a human with 3 strength or even 5 strength. But the 5 strength human would know simply better ways to use his strength in various situation, therefore exceeding the wookie in several tasks.

Lets spin it even further, take the Givin, the Givin has an alien mind and could easily calculate astrogation routes in his head. While a "average" givin would be able to do just that, a savant human with "INT" 5+ would be able to "maybe" propose a jump, but on the other hand would have a very perceptive and agile mind - therefore doing all kind of versatile thinking.

 

hm….

 

Cheers,

Sym

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 Don't forget a Wookie will also have its special abilities and beginning advantages…  a Wound threshold of Brawn +14 instead of the Human's +10 as well as dealing more damage through Brawl and Melee when injured, so they do have some significant differences from a steroid-bloated human.

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nyriv1 said:

 Don't forget a Wookie will also have its special abilities and beginning advantages…  a Wound threshold of Brawn +14 instead of the Human's +10 as well as dealing more damage through Brawl and Melee when injured, so they do have some significant differences from a steroid-bloated human.

Yes, but the strongest Wookie should have an advantage in arm wrestling against the strongest human.

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LukeZZ said:

Yes, but the strongest Wookie should have an advantage in arm wrestling against the strongest human.

He does! The Wookie will flip out and kill you if he lose. That gotta be worth a few setback dice. ;)

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Slaunyeh said:

LukeZZ said:

 

Yes, but the strongest Wookie should have an advantage in arm wrestling against the strongest human.

 

 

He does! The Wookie will flip out and kill you if he lose. That gotta be worth a few setback dice. ;)

(^_^)

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