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Peacekeeper_b

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MarthWMaster said:

I also don't really get why Age of Rebellion didn't come out first. I always thought the Rebels were like, the main heroes of the Original Trilogy, with the fringers and bounty hunters being more of a sideshow. 

It seems like playing these fringe characters with an array of gray toned morality allows players more flexibility on who they work for/against. Many crime lords are as evil as I can humanly grasp, being slavers and all these sorts of things. But others are just looking for a buck and to undercut the competition, then Rebel cells and Imperial Intelligence agents can always hire on independent operatives for one-time work or more. I can't help but dig the possibilities in this mini-setting, and we barely even know what's really in there, but it's sparking my imagination.

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 Alright gang, I'm holding a copy of the new beta test…and It looks like I'm the only person thus far who can say that in this threat so…My thoughts are:

Totally worth $30 to start playing a new rejuvenated Star Wars RPG with a totally different sistem that seems to be really well thought out. I'm so excited to try it out with my friends and then be able to have a chance and say what I DON'T LIKE about a system I'll probly be playing for the next 10 years. Being able to make changes to things that would normally drive me nuts. The book is full 220 page color and isn't just a manual. Could use some more examples and art to build it up but being a 15 year RPG veteran I'm not worried about it. 

My point is just this, if you don't want to have a say in the Beta then don't buy it. Yes $40 (including shipping) feels like a lot for an unfinished game but thats just not how I look at it. I look at it I payed $30 (cuz I was at Gen Con) and get to start playing star wars now, and add my feed back into the game I'll play more then any other. 

May the force be with you!

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 I picked this up at GenCon and I've had some time to read over it. It's actually a very full-featured product, and it seems to me like you could use this book to run a Star Wars game for years and never buy another product. And hey, while you're at it, send in feedback to FFG and help the final published product benefit from your wisdom and experience.

So yeah, I think this is actually pretty cool. I mean, this is not a "beta" in any sense I've seen before for an RPG. For example, I got a beta playtest kit for D&D Next and it was nowhere near as full-featured as Edge of the Empire (though it was also free). Think of this more as an open beta for an MMO that's about to launch. Really, the work is all done, it just needs some intense, widespread playtesting to shake out the remaining balance issues and exploits.

Yes, you do have to pay money for this product and yes, it's a beta. But it's a very, very finished beta by RPG standards and it's a nice print job with full color, tables, some decent art, and so on. So if you're interested in playing a new, more narrative-driven take on a Star Wars RPG, I'd say give it a shot.

On the other hand, if you don't want to pay for a beta and you can wait a while, great, pick up the published final version when it's available.

That's my .02

 

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I am glad some of you who already have it are reporting in and telling us about it. Gives me hope that we are getting a well made, and designed, finished Star Wars rpg that is, for the first time, a custom system for Star Wars and not put into a dice system Star Wars doesn't quite fit.  I have faith in this game.

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First off, if you haven't previewed the book, isn't it kind of hypocritical to nay-say just for the hell of it? I've been gaming 30 years and I can say this is far from a "beta" and in fact is better written than many 'complete' RPGs on the market. Its full color, 224 pages of solid rules with some decent artwork and a little background. When they announced it during the In-flight seminar, the whole room went crazy.

Going to once again criticize the game having no fluff or art? This game really isn't for you then. If you don't know what Star Wars is, then go play Halo or Madden or something.

My friends and I laughed that the beginning of the book could have had the words:
"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away… you know the rest."
and that would have been just fine. We know the background.

To start:
8 playable races
6 classes with 3 specialties each
Force specialization tree with 3 trees of powers
Customizable equipment
Customizable vehicles
Comprehensive rules that are FAR from being a 'beta' version.
Enemies and Adversaries
Even a 3-part adventure.

Honestly, if people want to cry about paying for a 'beta', then I'll say the same thing when the Only War beta came out. Simply don't do it. Pretend that it doesn't exist, because really, who cares? FFG isn't forcing anyone to pay them money. If your so concerned with it being a 'beta' then don't buy it. Its not hurting you one bit not to have it and FFG doesn't owe anyone a free game. And oh man, just wait till you find out you have to buy special dice to play! The tears shed will sustain me for at least another year or two.

In the meantime, my group and I will be busy delving back into the galaxy we all have loved our whole lives with the brand new books we picked up GenCon.

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 I'm sure the final version will have tons of art and plenty of fluff. Those things do not need to be beta-tested. What's in the book is the rules, character options, enemies, vehicle stuff, Force rules, and a GM section. Basically it's everything you need to play the game. I imagine that the biggest change between this beta book and final product will mainly be the presentation, plus any changes to the rules that result from the feedback.

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I am sorely disappointed. Charging for a Beta is nonsense. Three core rulebooks is a waste of money and book space. Class-based (sorry, "career-based") systems are usually limiting and unimaginitive. Even worse that many desirable character options aren't available in the initial release (and require buying entirely new core rulebooks to get them). Requiring special dice is unattractive as a consumer.

I had really hoped for an interesting game, and maybe this one is. But FFG is doing everything wrong, in my opinion, and making certain I'll never get the chance to try it out. Because I'm sure as heck not paying THEM for the privilege of testing their game for them.

Bad move, FFG. Bad move.

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Manchu said:

I tend to think of it as FFG offering me the chance to play a full game early if I want to.  Glass half-full, I guess.

 

Same here. And is not like the first time I do something like this.  Few years back I bought Chaosium Version 0 of their BRP book (a proofreading version of the book releases a few month earlier than the main release).  I still have and use that book.

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For me too it's a little expensive. Not the book itself, after all, it's a real book, not just a PDF, but with the shipping bound for France …
We can still say that it is indeed a beta, but it is (normally) a playable state. In my opinion, it is "almost" as if Wizards had released its version of SW D20, then was released not long after the revised …
But because of the costs expdition, I will wait to be a "simple pdf" for $ 10 (for example) or that I find a way to order numbers to share the costs …

 

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 As much whining as there has been, I have to ask:

I'm not very familiar with FFG, but I am familiar with the WEG and WOTC Star Wars RPGS, and in each case, they re-released the core rulebook multiple times for new "editions" that tweaked the rules. Does FFG tend to do that with their rulebooks? If not, then doesn't the idea of not having to deal with multiple retooled editions somewhat deaden the frustration of three core rulebooks and/or a pre-release beta purchase? Just sayin'.

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Personally, I do not see what the issue is for paying for something you actually get to test and play ahead of time. The simple logic is if you do not want to pay for it, then dont and wait for the official release of the game is all. I for one bought it and cannot wait to play test it. I have been playing the star wars p&p ever since WEG. I already of my play group ready and im just waiting for the book to show up.  I love the lore and universe and this is my chance to give some really good feedback so we can all enjoy a really good and complete product upon release.

 

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NathanPButler said:

 As much whining as there has been, I have to ask:

I'm not very familiar with FFG, but I am familiar with the WEG and WOTC Star Wars RPGS, and in each case, they re-released the core rulebook multiple times for new "editions" that tweaked the rules. Does FFG tend to do that with their rulebooks? If not, then doesn't the idea of not having to deal with multiple retooled editions somewhat deaden the frustration of three core rulebooks and/or a pre-release beta purchase? Just sayin'.

FFG's Warhammer 40k RPG has a lot of fans. I've never liked percentile rules, but I love the 'verse.

They haven't rereleased a game with multiple printings and tweaks as far as I can tell, but every new addition to the line changes the rules a bit, but never seems to fix those ridiculous glaring errors here, or that little bit misspelling there. This wouldn't be nearly as frustrating if they hadn't but up errata addressing these very same and similar issues just about every time they release a game. And for so much of each corebook, well, it's just copy paste half way through it.

As soon as Only War comes out, where players can take on the role of the Imperial Guard, some completionists are going to have a total of five game lines on their shelves. All with VERY similar rules that each have some big differences, so cross-over can be awkward. None of them buy stuff the same, only one actually uses money, one of them spends XP to earn access to holy relics and "the good stuff," while the others roll d100 to see if they can acquire Batteships, reliquaries of the dark gods, or rations and basic las-rifles.

One has all their potency in really cheap (xp-wsie) skills and talents, another is powerful because of money, starships and being a pirate/privateer crew, then there's the Space Marines, followed by heretics who pay no heed to the dangers of chaos, and then there's the Imperial Guard. I guess they have a tank. One tank. Per group, rules as written.

So it's LIKE getting revisions, but whole new games attached to them, and there has never been a core setting book that you can purchase separate from the rules, or a core CORE rulebook, so many people (completionists) have 4 or 5 copies of the "same" rules.

Personally, I love their settings, and the focus and group cohesion that they bring. It really brings to light the mood, themes, and an appropriate tone, but I'd hate to buy the rules so many times. But there are a lot of people who don't use the setting, and just want the tools to make their own worlds and warzones. I'm guessing the full Star Wars book will cost 50 bucks, MSRP. Which means 20 dollars that these "anti-settings" guys will "have to pay." Again, completionists.

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Yep, this pretty much makes me lose any interest in the play test. 

Admittedly, I'm not a fan of paying to play test something, but I'm not morally against it.

If I feel like it'd be useful. 

In this case though it looks like I'd be paying twice for a game: Once to "playtest" a system that seems to be pretty finalized, so not much will come out of it, and then once again for the "Final" version, which will look pretty much like the one I already bought.

FFG has done me no wrong (quite the contrary, the few times I've dealt directly with them, they've been great), so I'm not going to hypothesize about their motives for releasing it this way. I will say though that I don't like it, so I'll voice it once here and then vote with my wallet on the play test. Once it's been officially released I'll reevaluate, but honestly, this isn't a good first impression of the game for me. 

Though, If it ends up not to my liking I have WEG to scratch any Star Wars itches. So, sadly, I'll have no tears for you. 

 

 

Kaiohx said:

First off, if you haven't previewed the book, isn't it kind of hypocritical to nay-say just for the hell of it? I've been gaming 30 years and I can say this is far from a "beta" and in fact is better written than many 'complete' RPGs on the market. Its full color, 224 pages of solid rules with some decent artwork and a little background. When they announced it during the In-flight seminar, the whole room went crazy.

Going to once again criticize the game having no fluff or art? This game really isn't for you then. If you don't know what Star Wars is, then go play Halo or Madden or something.

My friends and I laughed that the beginning of the book could have had the words:
"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away… you know the rest."
and that would have been just fine. We know the background.

To start:
8 playable races
6 classes with 3 specialties each
Force specialization tree with 3 trees of powers
Customizable equipment
Customizable vehicles
Comprehensive rules that are FAR from being a 'beta' version.
Enemies and Adversaries
Even a 3-part adventure.

Honestly, if people want to cry about paying for a 'beta', then I'll say the same thing when the Only War beta came out. Simply don't do it. Pretend that it doesn't exist, because really, who cares? FFG isn't forcing anyone to pay them money. If your so concerned with it being a 'beta' then don't buy it. Its not hurting you one bit not to have it and FFG doesn't owe anyone a free game. And oh man, just wait till you find out you have to buy special dice to play! The tears shed will sustain me for at least another year or two.

In the meantime, my group and I will be busy delving back into the galaxy we all have loved our whole lives with the brand new books we picked up GenCon.

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Peacekeeper_b said:

 

$30 and undoubtedly shipping for a play test manual? Any interest I had in this has evaporated. Sorry.

 

 

 

I couldnt agree more.Ive defended FFG from the beginging all the way up to the only war beta but this is just plain insulting to the fans that cared"past tense for myself" for the company.Yes;I know the old arguement that im not being forced to buy it…….I get it.Ive decided with the rest of my playing group(6 in all) that were done with FFG.Im done spending money on multiple corebooks with revisions after each series(40k).Im done trying to cope with ever increasing and confusing system at times.And Im certainly done trying to defend to the nay-sayers(Yes ive become one of them now) why paying for a beta game ($30?)is good buisness practice.FFG needs to look at companys that treat their fans good such as SJG or Paizo instead of trying to rip them off with this junk.No TEARS shedded here.Ive moved my 40k game to a more streamlined system that my group and I are all very happy with(And it only costed $10) .

As for their new starwars game?Best of luck to those that think its gonna be awesomesauce;Ill stick to the starwars WEG version that lets me play a jedi NOW and not have to wait 3 years or more and cost another $60.END OF RANT.

 

Signed,

                       A former FFG customer

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Venthrac said:

 If the beta book is close to the final version, there might be no need to buy the final version. Just saying'.

Then what's the point of releasing it in the first place? 

If all "Beta Test" means is that for $30 I get to do FFG's proofreading for them… then the whole process has sunk to an all new low.  Where's the Beta test feedback forum? The scheduled tests? The "stress testing"? Maybe it's coming, but if they charged $30 for a Beta, and the final version is just a spell check away, then that's a low blow.

 

 

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LOL how is it hard to understand that the beta is for people who want to spend 30 USD to play before the final draft?  I can't fathom why people are upset about this.  If you don't want to spend the money, that's fine.  It's not like you can't get the hardcover later on if you don't spend on the beta.

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I don't care if you want to spend money twice for the same thing. 

I care that the company is possibly releasing a "pretty much done" product under the auspice of it being a Beta, and charging for it, when they know full well that consumers will also buy the complete version.

What you do with your own money is your own business.

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I am with you on this 30 bucks for a non final product and then 12 bucks shipping … NO WAY.

I am a huge Starwars fan but this kinda kills it for me and my 6 players. We might look at it if we could get a retailer kit for the

right price but other than that good buy FFG Starwars .. Hello D6 Starwars.

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If it is nearly done, then it is more of a waste of your money.  You could just wait till you get the final product.  Also those of you who are accusing people of whining should really stop.  Just because you don't agree with us doesn't give you the right to make false assumptions about us.  Especially when there is the Only War beta that is doing it far better than this beta.  Just because I like Fantasy Flight does not make me a hypocrite if I question things that they do as a company.  All it does is make me into a smart customer.

Which is why I bought the Only War beta cause I feel like that was a fair deal.  This star wars beta just doesn't seem fair to me and as a smart customer I just don't purchase it.  I will most likely buy the full finalize version of it later on.

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Manchu said:

LOL how is it hard to understand that the beta is for people who want to spend 30 USD to play before the final draft?  I can't fathom why people are upset about this.  If you don't want to spend the money, that's fine.  It's not like you can't get the hardcover later on if you don't spend on the beta.

Manchu said:

LOL how is it hard to understand that the beta is for people who want to spend 30 USD to play before the final draft?  I can't fathom why people are upset about this.  If you don't want to spend the money, that's fine.  It's not like you can't get the hardcover later on if you don't spend on the beta.

 

 

I TOTALLY agree with you! This is honestly getting stupid imo. If you want to buy it, then buy it. There is no reason to get upset over this. Just wait for the completed version to come out and then buy it. Case closed. No one is forcing you to buy it.  I mean is it really constructive to complain about this? Its FFG'S choice if they want to charge for it. And I dont mind helping out one bit. I bought it…its on its way… and ill let you know how much my group enjoys testing it.

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How can we know how similar the beta is to the final release?  That's a pretty big assumption and it seems to me that the only thing supporting it is a negative attitude.  And even if the beta ends up being similar to the final release, how will anyone actually suffer from it?  In order for it to be a harmful business practice, I think someone will have to demonstrate real harm.

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One thing should be noted (if it hasn't been already - I didn't take the time to read all of the rantings), in past iterations of Star Wars RPGs there was a very, VERY strict limitation on any digital aspects the company could put out per the license with Lucas.  THIS INCLUDES A PDF VERSION OF THE GAME.  If the license holds true to historical example, FFG simply is not allowed to release these Star Wars related books in PDF format.

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GoblynByte said:

One thing should be noted (if it hasn't been already - I didn't take the time to read all of the rantings), in past iterations of Star Wars RPGs there was a very, VERY strict limitation on any digital aspects the company could put out per the license with Lucas.  THIS INCLUDES A PDF VERSION OF THE GAME.  If the license holds true to historical example, FFG simply is not allowed to release these Star Wars related books in PDF format.

You are correct sir.

Lucasfilm classifies a PDF book as an electronic game. So if FFG wanted to sell PDFs the would have purchase an additional license from Lucasarts which deals with video game licenses.

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