Matching the opponents to the group (otherwise known as "swapping out the lasrifle for an autogun")

[Gregorius21778 249]

Jeans_Stealer said:

@this Promethium: Aren't vehicles common in hives? driving the Aortas in large numbers? gangs must have bikes and stuff. If I had 400 ppl i wanted to suddenly arm up and roll out, I'd nick all the 8-haulers I could find and roll out like the Autobots.

I just thought…10 barrels of fuel makes a good environmental key for the acolytes to plant a bomb and blow the cache sky-high. or a refulling station next to 3-4 parked trucks, or something. I'll read the info on metallican again and see what i can find - if vehicles are 'restricted' to companies and haulage and freight, but gangers get it together to move their mooks around the territory and drive the boss around then surely fuel can be bootlegged too?

the mere presence of tucks and vehicles in the campaign makes me think of the gang collecting fuel to keep their vehicles going so they can swiftly respond to defend their hood, as it were.

That isn't to say that i don't see what you're getting at - who's going to put out a fire in metallican hive, with it's lack of law? no one, and stuff is going to burn. and the inquisitor would be p-i-s-s-e-d…

my limit… some fuel. not loads. a sensible amount. and then loads of guns & ammo, in a converted, barricaded and secure hab-block surrounded by bads.

I assume that a "gang war" (one where you arm up a gang instead of really training troops) would be one very local, very close to where the cache is (like, neighboring district). If you troops plan to take a one or two hour ride to get to their target…in a larger tross of vehicles… I think somebody would interefere. While the Infernis (the Underhive) is lawless, the hive itself is not. It is violent and oh-so-very armed. But not 100% lawless. Otherwise, no factory business would be their. Total Anarchy is not going hand in hand with productive manufactoring. Have a look at actual examples of 100% anarchies around the globe with lots and loads of weapons and you will see that there is that much looting and fighting going on that their is no big time production going on any longer. Capital likes to gain interests, and their is no interest if your captial good looted three times last year…or month.

That said, you could of course rule that their will be a convoy of gang controlled vehicles rushing across the ateria to smash into -whatever- and that it will be quick enough that no serious defence can be mounted. But as mentioned above, for this kind of game you need a small base with the equivalent of (I guess) two  commercial gas stations so that the vehicles can be fueled up quickly.

Having a stack of barrels with prometium "for the bikes and utility cars and stuff" is alright and good. I thought you would NOT want the PC to simply blow up the whole structure using this promethium. But I start to get it that this IS part of your plan.

A word about fires and hives
A centre of mass population with no functioning firefighter system (that is: none present or those present unable to do their job for one reason or another) is a disaster in the making. Have a look at acient room, not so acient London and similiar place. While a lot of the problem in the past was due to the ominpresence of wood in all of the construction (a problem a hive is not likely to suffer from) fires are still a great danger.  I guess do not want all this cable ducts to become a melting mess of heat. You do not want a panic in a place tightly packed with humans.

I would thereby assume that (besides  warzones like the underhive) their are firefighters and that somebody will take it serious if they cannot go about their business. Steel melts at some temperatur and once that happen a structures give (see 9/11) ..and then several things ABOVE tend to come down as well.

[Jeans_Stealer 2]

Gregorius,

I think we'll move this to PM. you were right, as the discussion was about matching opponents, and it's getting a bit tangled.

[Gregorius21778 249]

Jeans_Stealer said:

Gregorius,

I think we'll move this to PM. you were right, as the discussion was about matching opponents, and it's getting a bit tangled.

 

So, still in need for any opponents or other  related stuff?  Sorry for derailing the topic, I just got carried away

[Jeans_Stealer 2]

Gregorius21778 said:

So, still in need for any opponents or other  related stuff?  Sorry for derailing the topic, I just got carried away

Gregorius,

No worries, I think it was me that derailed it ("this doesn't need to be on PM blah blah") so really, a summary of learned points would be a good start:

@Mooks:

1. analyse the situation - do your PCs nick gear from fallen foes? do they like flamers? do they use autoguns and manstoppers? range? melee? what level are they?

2. give the mooks more wounds than 10 if they fall like flies, increase their appropriate stats, give them basic gear BUT make them able to hurt the PCs. Use cheap, common, and sometimes downright arrogance-crushing tactics - surpression, firebombs, heavy cover, helicopters, cavalry, grenades… and SURPRISE. if the acolytes are not at risk, it's going to be a cakewalk and they'll get bored or more arrogant.

3. mix them up - ninjas, heavies, sneakers, shooters… but always consider that what they're facing WOULD be fighting them. no one wants to see skitarii on Iocanthos UNLESS the story has set it up to be so.

4. Boss mooks - one or two, or one in every three/four. Better stats. Tougher. better at dodging. nice guns/swords, but fancy armour not necessary. Make them stand out.

5. Outnumbering is better than overtooling. everyone gets two half-actions. putting more enemies down means more bads left at the end of each round than acolytes, and getting this number right is the difference between challenge and cakewalk.

6. Final options: Combat drugs, Servo skulls and attack dogs. It must always suit the story though. always. leave the overblown for rank 8.

@Story:

1. environmental effects of smoke, heavy rain. They can mess up the calm playing style your acolytes are used to. plus they'll get wet/cough a lot, and no PC likes that. all in the name of the emperor, I suppose…

2. Local environment - finding one's way round is a PC's job, not a Mook's. They live there!

3. A bad thing might randomly happen - Roll a D10 every so often… did a 9 come up? it starts to rain. or a dreg leaps on one of your party - or a pack of dogs is eating a homeless guy… a mutie gets lost and runs into the party… or simply a bird poops on one of your PCs.

4. All Mooks MUST suit the campaign. Match the campaign, then for tougher fights match the mook within these requirements

5. Promethium go Boom. Is very dangerous.

6. don't let your acolytes get used to finding visual clues to get through their campaigns - always make them think and search. They will surprise you.

Anyone got anything to add to the summary?

 

[Gregorius21778 249]

Point 2)  Mooks and wounds
Their where some decent, pleasent rules for Mook Combat in…. I think was either Creatures Anathema or DotdG

In short, simply decide if they will go down after one, two or three "hits". A HIT is an attack that hits home and causes damage AFTER reduction from Armour and TB. If the damage would be 10 or more, count it as 2 "hits". This way, you spare yourself a lot of book keeping for the 8 non-boss-mooks you have running around (as smoke screen and distraction and death-by-thounsand-cut-option). 


 7) Think outsite of the box
Just because a given item, spell or talent is not part of the rules…does not mean that you cannot come up with it and introduce it to your PC. The "explosive ammo", the way dogs steal half actions (while biting and tearing at the limbs) and the "Flash Device" unter the gun are three examples of it. Of course, things need to be balanced a litte AND you should make this items avialabe to the PC from that moment on.  Otherwise, you players wil call you BETRAYER, CHEATER and some other nons I do not dare to repeat.

[Jeans_Stealer 2]

@Mooks:

8) DON'T be afraid to challenge your players. they're big kids, they can handle it. they have fate points to use and burn. Let mooks do stupid things and walk into traps, but at the same time don't make their enemies bumbling idiots. It's about balance… and if you can do this, then every fight will be a challenge, and the victory sweeter for the PCs.

@Story:

8) the PCs will surprise you, regardless of what you think they will do. don't plan for their every eventuality - Think and concentrate on merely how the world they're in would react to them doing the crazy stuff they WILL do. (I know this has been said before, but it's important enough to be mentioned again…

[Jeans_Stealer 2]

Anyone got anything else to add?

[Nameless2all 210]

Jeans_Stealer said:

Anyone got anything else to add?

Nope.

[Mellon 5]

Very good summary Jeans_Stealer!

I'd like to add:

Don't be afraid to cheat. If the fight is too easy, make up things like reinforcements, hidden explosives or better equipment (preferrably non-reusable by the heroes, such as mutations, psychic powers or grenades).

Try to create new challenges by changing the effectiveness/availability of game mechanics such as line of sight, movement speed, useability of certain gear, and so on.

Make the characters hesistant to use excessive violence available to them, by for example including social situations, friends and relatives and innocents in the field of fire, valuable (religious ?) buildings, undercover situations, vitnesses to protect, the requirement of apparently unhurt prisoners etc.

[kjakan 1]

Unless your players (and you, the GM) are oblivious to the larger world, there really is no reason not to heap loads of equipment on the bad-guys - as long as they are richly adorned with symbols of the ruinous powers. I mean, the Acolytes would need to be pretty thick if they think their boss is going to let them keep weapons and power desecrated with symbols of chaos. Seriously: You can't even sell that crap.

Sure, they can pick up these items and use them to infiltrate a cult of chaos worshippers, but after the mission those prizes go to resyk while the Acolytes are examined for taint.

The same principle applies to xenos weapons, to a lesser extent.

-K

[Leviathan616 0]

Jeans_Stealer said:

Anyone got anything else to add?

 

yes, give your NPC poor quality stuff. It will reduce loot and allow you to have more powerful weapons and armors for a small price.