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Dain Ironfoot

Immune to Player Card Effects

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This is probably a ridiculous question but what exactly does "immune to player card effects" mean?

this is close:

"Immune to Card Effects
The location East-gate has the text, “Immune to card
effects.” This means that East-gate cannot be selected as
the target of any card effect, and it ignores the effect of any
card that would directly interact with it. The only way to
place progress tokens on it is by questing, and once Eastgate
is the active location it remains the active location
until it is fully explored (even cards like Dreadful Gap or
Strider’s Path would not be able to move it to the staging
area)."

Since an upcoming hero has the text "Immune to Player Card Effects" this means we cannot heal the hero, correct? Or play any other effect on the hero? Can the hero have weapons or armor?

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muemakan said:

 So then tell us more about this new Hero……

didn't want to spoil anything, as it doesn't really relate to the question. check out the hobbit spoilers thread for more info. :)

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Dain Ironfoot said:

… Since an upcoming hero has the text "Immune to Player Card Effects" this means we cannot heal the hero, correct? Or play any other effect on the hero? Can the hero have weapons or armor?

 

As I read it, the answer to your questions would be "Correct.  No.  No."

Specifically, it mentions, "Cannot have attachments.  Immune to player card effects."

So unless there was some sort of ENCOUNTER card that allowed you to heal a hero (highly unlikely I would think… but possible- there have been locations that let you draw cards when explored, sooo….), then no healing is available for him.  And since off the top of my head all weapons/armor are currently attachments, then none of them are allowed either… But these are separate conditions.  Contrast this to the upcoming Bilbo hero that prevents gaining resources from player card effects, but has nor attachment restrictions.

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benhanses said:

Dain Ironfoot said:

 

… Since an upcoming hero has the text "Immune to Player Card Effects" this means we cannot heal the hero, correct? Or play any other effect on the hero? Can the hero have weapons or armor?

 

 

 

As I read it, the answer to your questions would be "Correct.  No.  No."

Specifically, it mentions, "Cannot have attachments.  Immune to player card effects."

So unless there was some sort of ENCOUNTER card that allowed you to heal a hero (highly unlikely I would think… but possible- there have been locations that let you draw cards when explored, sooo….), then no healing is available for him.  And since off the top of my head all weapons/armor are currently attachments, then none of them are allowed either… But these are separate conditions.  Contrast this to the upcoming Bilbo hero that prevents gaining resources from player card effects, but has nor attachment restrictions.

that really limits his effectives, but with that many hit points, he should have a drawback. :)

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Dain Ironfoot said:

 

that really limits his effectives, but with that many hit points, he should have a drawback. :)

 

Yup, with his Sentinel keyword, 5  attack strength ( and 0 willpower), and "Does not exahust to defend" clause, it's pretty apparent what he's out there for…  defend then attack, defend then attack, defend… you get the idea.

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Just to throw this out there. This Term was under the Rules & New Terms in the pamphlet book that comes with the game.

 

Immune to Player Card Effects

Cards with the text "Immune to player card effects" ignore the effects of all player cards. Additionally, cards that are immune to player card effects cannot be chosen as targets of player card effects.

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benhanses said:

Dain Ironfoot said:

 

 

that really limits his effectives, but with that many hit points, he should have a drawback. :)

 

 

 

Yup, with his Sentinel keyword, 5  attack strength ( and 0 willpower), and "Does not exahust to defend" clause, it's pretty apparent what he's out there for…  defend then attack, defend then attack, defend… you get the idea.

still 1 defense….im in the boat that think he's pretty useless (ok well not useless- he certainly an interesting character, just i limits his usefulness a real lot)

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Dam said:

Beorn might be a good host, but isn't all that good on taking care of himself, being immune to Beorn's Hospitality lengua.gif .

partido_risa.gif

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it's an interesting effect to put on a card, but it doesnt really make any sense, flavour-wise. Can anyone work out a reason why a character would have it?

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I can see some rules problems coming up…..

Is the text on Beorn still active if he is in the discard pile?

If he is still immune then you can't play Fortune or Fate on him or use Landroval, annoying but understandable. The problem is what happens when he ends up in your deck (Lost and Alone). Can the stargazer see him? Can Berevor or Gleowine draw him? Can Zigil miner discard him?

Most other card games rule that the card is just a card unless it is in play. That gets around a lot of these problems and would imply that you can play Fortune or Fate on Beorn.

Thoughts anyone?

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Cunir said:

it's an interesting effect to put on a card, but it doesnt really make any sense, flavour-wise. Can anyone work out a reason why a character would have it?

i dont particularly like it, but i guess you could say with him being his own master and as stubborn as a mule, no other cards would work on him (but as said before- even his own event!)

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Memetix said:

I can see some rules problems coming up…..

Is the text on Beorn still active if he is in the discard pile?

If he is still immune then you can't play Fortune or Fate on him or use Landroval, annoying but understandable. The problem is what happens when he ends up in your deck (Lost and Alone). Can the stargazer see him? Can Berevor or Gleowine draw him? Can Zigil miner discard him?

Most other card games rule that the card is just a card unless it is in play. That gets around a lot of these problems and would imply that you can play Fortune or Fate on Beorn.

Thoughts anyone?

well id say that he cant be brought back- im pretty sure of that at least

however as for stargazer im not sure….i mean you look at 5 cards and dont know he is there so that cant be helped, but tampering with him is after all an effect

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Cinematically, the mechanic works well, I think. Beorn was very much a loner at  the time of the hobbit. A bit of a crazy old hermit. He didn't particularly work well with others, and didn't particularly want to. However, he hated orcs and wargs with a passion, and was willing to warm up some over the common enemy. However, as they were entering the woods, the dwarves started to give hint that they wanted to keep his poneys for the trek through mirkwood. Gandalf made it pretty clear that doing so would make an enemy of beorn. Even after they had befriended him, he was still mostly concerned with himself and his animals over the well being of the other free peoples.

 

It wasn't until later that he became something of a leader amongst the beornings.

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Memetix said:

I can see some rules problems coming up…..

Is the text on Beorn still active if he is in the discard pile?

If he is still immune then you can't play Fortune or Fate on him or use Landroval, annoying but understandable. The problem is what happens when he ends up in your deck (Lost and Alone). Can the stargazer see him? Can Berevor or Gleowine draw him? Can Zigil miner discard him?

Most other card games rule that the card is just a card unless it is in play. That gets around a lot of these problems and would imply that you can play Fortune or Fate on Beorn.

Thoughts anyone?

I would say his text will have no effect in discard pile or in the deck, both of which are in a "out of play state".  Card effects are effective only if the card is "in play", unless otherwise noted.  So I think he can be brought back by Fortune or Fate.  Just my 2 cents.

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Immune to Player Card Effects

 

Cards with the text "Immune to player card effects" ignore the effects of all player cards. Additionally, cards that are immune to player card effects cannot be chosen as targets of player card effects
 

 

 

 

It seems like in this case, that Beorn could not be targeted by Fate or Fortune even though he is in the discard pile. However abilities like Stargazer target the deck so it wouldn't apply.

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Sprenger said:

Immune to Player Card Effects

Cards with the text "Immune to player card effects" ignore the effects of all player cards. Additionally, cards that are immune to player card effects cannot be chosen as targets of player card effects 

It seems like in this case, that Beorn could not be targeted by Fate or Fortune even though he is in the discard pile. However abilities like Stargazer target the deck so it wouldn't apply.

I'm tempted to agree with you since stargazer wouldn't target Beorn to look at the deck, but it most certainly would effect him during the "put back in an order" part. The same would need to hold true for Gandalf's search. How you resolve these effects, I don't know.

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Angus Lee said:

Memetix said:

 

I can see some rules problems coming up…..

Is the text on Beorn still active if he is in the discard pile?

If he is still immune then you can't play Fortune or Fate on him or use Landroval, annoying but understandable. The problem is what happens when he ends up in your deck (Lost and Alone). Can the stargazer see him? Can Berevor or Gleowine draw him? Can Zigil miner discard him?

Most other card games rule that the card is just a card unless it is in play. That gets around a lot of these problems and would imply that you can play Fortune or Fate on Beorn.

Thoughts anyone?

 

 

I would say his text will have no effect in discard pile or in the deck, both of which are in a "out of play state".  Card effects are effective only if the card is "in play", unless otherwise noted.  So I think he can be brought back by Fortune or Fate.  Just my 2 cents.

I think you must be right. When it is in a discard pile, then Beorn's text cannot apply. Thus there is at least one card that combos well with Beorn, I feel. But I might ask about it to be sure.

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Maybe at some point FFG will make a "Turn into a big freaking Bear!" event or attachment card with text stating to ignore the immunity text on Beorn. That way only specific cards could be used on him. It seems messy though.

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 impaulm has a really good point.  I was surprised to see that Beorn made the first box in the first place.  I was expecting it to be ALL dwarves and then we would see the non-dwarf heroes in the second box.  So the idea of an event or attachment that gives Beorn regenerate 1, or +2 def is not out of the question.

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i was thinking something similar, i though Beorn should have had regenerate 1 but i am no designer… i really hope we shall see cards that weaken enemies, could help out Beorn some way

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Memetix said:

Sprenger said:

 

Immune to Player Card Effects

Cards with the text "Immune to player card effects" ignore the effects of all player cards. Additionally, cards that are immune to player card effects cannot be chosen as targets of player card effects 

It seems like in this case, that Beorn could not be targeted by Fate or Fortune even though he is in the discard pile. However abilities like Stargazer target the deck so it wouldn't apply.

 

 

I'm tempted to agree with you since stargazer wouldn't target Beorn to look at the deck, but it most certainly would effect him during the "put back in an order" part. The same would need to hold true for Gandalf's search. How you resolve these effects, I don't know.

 

Not to be contrary (which means that I'm going to be… lol), but I believe this reasoning is incorrect.  The rulebook clearly states that:

Page 25 "In Play and Out of Play":
"In play" refers to cards that have been played or put into play (in a player’s play area), to cards that are waiting in the staging area, to the currently revealed quest card, and to encounter cards that are engaged with that player. "Out of play" states are" in a player's hand," "in a deck," or "in a discard pile.” Card effects do not interact with cards in an out of play state unless the effect specifically refers to that state."

And on page 6 (under "Card Anatomy Key"), it states that:

"10. Game Text: The special abilities unique to this particular card when it is in play."

 

So, by combining those rules/guidleines, Beorn's text is not ACTIVE while in the draw deck or discard pile.  Therefore, he should be eligible for player card effects that target those areas (search cards, Landroval, etc).

I didn't have time to scour the FAQ's/updates to see if there was anything that might contradict this, I will do so when I have more time (read: NOT at work.. .lol).  If anyone has more current info, please educate me, thanks!

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benhanses said:

Not to be contrary (which means that I'm going to be… lol), but I believe this reasoning is incorrect.  The rulebook clearly states that:

Page 25 "In Play and Out of Play":
"In play" refers to cards that have been played or put into play (in a player’s play area), to cards that are waiting in the staging area, to the currently revealed quest card, and to encounter cards that are engaged with that player. "Out of play" states are" in a player's hand," "in a deck," or "in a discard pile.” Card effects do not interact with cards in an out of play state unless the effect specifically refers to that state."

And on page 6 (under "Card Anatomy Key"), it states that:

"10. Game Text: The special abilities unique to this particular card when it is in play."

 

So, by combining those rules/guidleines, Beorn's text is not ACTIVE while in the draw deck or discard pile.  Therefore, he should be eligible for player card effects that target those areas (search cards, Landroval, etc).

Well found, that would make sense and fits in with how I'd like the card to work.

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Memetix said:

benhanses said:

 

So, by combining those rules/guidleines, Beorn's text is not ACTIVE while in the draw deck or discard pile.  Therefore, he should be eligible for player card effects that target those areas (search cards, Landroval, etc).

 

 

Well found, that would make sense and fits in with how I'd like the card to work.

I haven't ran a lot of Tactics yet, and wasn't too thrilled to see Beorn's text.  It seemed a bit…. ummmmm….   Dull.  Just to be honest.

Let me clarify:  This game is really designed around its heroes.  Specifically, being able to get maximum useage out of them.  Notice how many of the "power" cards in this game are centered around that concept (UC, all the Aragorn/Glor/Elrond/Dwarven/etc. attachments).  So getting a hero (even with big stats) that will just kind of sit there, like a glorified meat-shield and be completely unable to interact with the rest of your deck except to generate rewources OR get searched for (if you are unlucky enough for him to get killed/discarded/buried) seems VERY anticlimactic. 

Despite my lack of excitement about his deck capabilities, I could see him slipping nicely into an Eagle deck perhaps.  Paricularly since Landroval is one of the FEW cards that can have any affect on him.  He would definitely fit the defend/attack theme they fill….

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