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VaultDweller

From the core rules…future LARGE units!

110 posts in this topic

VaultDweller said:

 The lead designer for the expansion packs confirmed today that the Falcon and Slave 1 are MEDIUM size ships. So what's bigger than the Falcon? This statement and other parts of the interview have me leaning towards frigates at least. Assuming they release 4 ships at a time and we know what wave 2 looks like wave 3 must be TIE Bomber, B-Wing, Lambda Shuttle, and ???  Assuming we stay in the classic trilogy and EU period what's next? Mon-cal, Neb-B? 

The next thing that comes to mind for me is a Corellian Corvette. Now that the MF and SI are called "Medium", I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tantive IV enter play. But then, that leads you to need an Imperial Class Star Destroyer and that would be too huge! Wonder what they'll do.

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reeeallly think we're taking semantics too far and hoping for too much. I think "large" means "just bigger" and refers to MF & Slave-I and so on. Contrary to what an earlier poster said, the MF would be about twice the length of an X-Wing (up to 2 1/2 times, depending on source) and I figure it to be about a $35 item - not $100.

The FFG games fellows already stated in earlier media that a big part of the game was being totally anal about scale; therefore, I don't see "relative scale" becoming a part of the game. SO, if so, the biggest conceivable vessel would be like the "Wild Karrde," and I don't even see THAT as no one's going to pay like $60 for "what is that?"

I think they'll play out the OT and then move on. We MIGHT see the Outrider. Maybe. That's my reasonable guess; we'll see how it shakes out!

 

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I was checking the size of the balloon mini that comes in the "Balloon Buster" Expansion for the "Wings of War" miniature game, and I think that a Rebel Transport (GR-75 Gallofree Yards Medium Transport) would be feasible. At 90 meters length, its size would be more manageable than that of the Corellian Corvette, and the Rebel Transport has a relatively high visibility in the movies (it appears both in the evacuation of Hoth and the Battle of Endor). Although I would see this ship more like a piece of scenography than a proper ship, remaining in the middle of the battlefield with the rest of ships flying around her. Something to deploy in special scenarios where the transport must survive for a given number of rounds before jumping to lightspeed.

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A CR90 (Corvelian Corvette) would certainly work as well, and could be used in scenarios as well. So many possibilities :D

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I'd love to see a Corvette, and am kinda meh on the transport (who wants a ship with no guns?).  I still think they are both too big to actually sell, except to a few fanboys.  The Transport would measure over 13", and the Corvette almost 22"!  They would easily sell for over $100, which puts them out of range of most players (and storage would be a pain as well). 

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 Remember this is a dogfighting game.  The Falcom and Save I are sort of unique in the fact that they can throw down with fighter.  How cool woud a ship be that just moves relativly straight and shoots three time at in a 360 fireing arc.

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Aye, the Falcon is pretty much the only one that actually fits into the game :) I'm already less certain about Slave I, to be honest. But of course I'll get one.

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Agrivar said:

 

I think that a Rebel Transport (GR-75 Gallofree Yards Medium Transport) would be feasible.

 

 

Perhaps, but who would take a Rebel Transport into a dog fight?  :)

I was thinking an imperial shuttle might also work, but not sure that fits into a dog fight either. 

Maybe they would work with a scenario, but I would not be excited about buying it for that reason.

I'm very happy to see these two larger ships. Can't think of any other about this size that I'd be as excited to see AND that would fit the dog fight feel of the game.

In addition to the A-Wing, TIE Intercepter, and eventually the Tie Bomber and B-Wing, maybe they'll start making different versions of each ship (i.e., that look different and come with different pilots, equipment, etc., and maybe slightly different dials). 

 

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 I can see some ships having cards for both the empire and the rebellion. Maybe not Slave 1 or the falcon since they're so iconic but a ship like the Lambda shuttle could be.  

 

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With this scale it would just be silly to go to Star Destroyers or other capitol ships.  I think small Frigates and Corvette's are more likely.  Something with a set rate of fire , where one would have to choose whether to fire the formation on the right or left, or hit them both slightly.

i am already considering a strategy where a medium base shields your weak TIE's until they are closer to the battle.

I just hope this game stays around awhile.

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 We're all assuming a lot of things in this thread. One is that the devs are dedicated to maintaining the scale of ALL ships. The design docs could say small and medium ships will be in scale and a medium ship is a certain max size. The scale for the larger ships could be different. Yes, I understand this is a dogfighting game and there are people passionate about maintaining scale but scale is already "broken" in the core set with the shuttle marker. 

I think the reason large ships are a hot topic is that most people can only name or recognize ships for the original trilogy or are not that interested in the prequels and can only see 6-8 ships in small and medium scale left to release as expansions. The game has a lot of buzz and potential but where do you go after you release the next 2 waves of ships? You think about the next most-recognizable ships from the films - capital ships and transports. 

I'm a big supporter of the game, wish I would have gone to GenCon, and am looking forward to getting my preorder. Good to see the boards coming to life and the great ideas and info being shared.  

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VaultDweller said:

 We're all assuming a lot of things in this thread. One is that the devs are dedicated to maintaining the scale of ALL ships. The design docs could say small and medium ships will be in scale and a medium ship is a certain max size. The scale for the larger ships could be different. Yes, I understand this is a dogfighting game and there are people passionate about maintaining scale but scale is already "broken" in the core set with the shuttle marker. 

I think the reason large ships are a hot topic is that most people can only name or recognize ships for the original trilogy or are not that interested in the prequels and can only see 6-8 ships in small and medium scale left to release as expansions. The game has a lot of buzz and potential but where do you go after you release the next 2 waves of ships? You think about the next most-recognizable ships from the films - capital ships and transports. 

I'm a big supporter of the game, wish I would have gone to GenCon, and am looking forward to getting my preorder. Good to see the boards coming to life and the great ideas and info being shared.  

Capital ships still pose problems given the ruleset, such as Koiogran turns and manuvers in general.  More than a 2 slight bend manuveer would have to be red, if not impossible for an ISD.  Then there's the "Agility" roll and pilot abilities.  With a ship that is responsible for carrying several wings of TIEs in addition to a capable landing force, what are they going to roll for defense?  If an X-wing hovers areound 25 points, and the game is made to hover around 100, does an ISD player just take an ISD for about 100 points and hope his hull/shields out last the 'Wings?

I think large ships are still something we can see, but not ISD or Mon Cal Cruisers.  Even a Corellian Corvette, who people have already said would have to be 15" or so to stay in scale was able to be detained in the hangar bay of an ISD.

 

Large ships are coming, but ISDs and the like are better suited for fleet-based games.

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I know this is going out on a limb, but one thing that no one has discussed is the possibility of the Snow/Land/Sand Speeders. Since they had a Death Star Trench gauntlet at GenCon, why not a battle of Hoth game with speeders and walkers? This would certainly be possible if they aren't only locked into space-based combat. It's just a thought. Kind of out there, but a thought.

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herozeromes said:

I know this is going out on a limb, but one thing that no one has discussed is the possibility of the Snow/Land/Sand Speeders. Since they had a Death Star Trench gauntlet at GenCon, why not a battle of Hoth game with speeders and walkers? This would certainly be possible if they aren't only locked into space-based combat. It's just a thought. Kind of out there, but a thought.

 

I've been wondering about this too, but with all the rampant speculation going on, I didn't want to fan the flames further.  Atmospheric combat would be neat, but really the only aircraft that we can't use in space is the snowspeeder (off the top of my head).  And then you need AT-ATs, AT-ST's, tanks, turrets, shield generators…  An AT-AT is about 20 meters long, so a little shorter than 2 X-Wings (but much taller).

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tiepilot1138 said:

I've been wondering about this too, but with all the rampant speculation going on, I didn't want to fan the flames further.  Atmospheric combat would be neat, but really the only aircraft that we can't use in space is the snowspeeder (off the top of my head).  And then you need AT-ATs, AT-ST's, tanks, turrets, shield generators…  An AT-AT is about 20 meters long, so a little shorter than 2 X-Wings (but much taller).

My biggest problem with making anything land based isn't so much the what and size, but the scale of movement.

Let's take that AT-AT for example.  The base of it would probably be 2x1 bases (where the Falcon seems to be 2x2).  Because of the nature of movement in the game that would make a 1 move for an AT-AT equal to a 3 move for a X-Wing.  

I can see two options for it.  Place a 1 template in front of the AT-AT, place any other template in front of that, remove the 1 template, now move the front of the AT-AT to the end of the other template.  Or AT-ATs could only move every 4-5 turns.  

Also just a note, their head is on a swivel so maybe their arc is wider than 90deg in front.

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Aahzmandius_Karrde said:

tiepilot1138 said:

 

I've been wondering about this too, but with all the rampant speculation going on, I didn't want to fan the flames further.  Atmospheric combat would be neat, but really the only aircraft that we can't use in space is the snowspeeder (off the top of my head).  And then you need AT-ATs, AT-ST's, tanks, turrets, shield generators…  An AT-AT is about 20 meters long, so a little shorter than 2 X-Wings (but much taller).

 

 

My biggest problem with making anything land based isn't so much the what and size, but the scale of movement.

Let's take that AT-AT for example.  The base of it would probably be 2x1 bases (where the Falcon seems to be 2x2).  Because of the nature of movement in the game that would make a 1 move for an AT-AT equal to a 3 move for a X-Wing.  

I can see two options for it.  Place a 1 template in front of the AT-AT, place any other template in front of that, remove the 1 template, now move the front of the AT-AT to the end of the other template.  Or AT-ATs could only move every 4-5 turns.  

Also just a note, their head is on a swivel so maybe their arc is wider than 90deg in front.

Precisely the challenge with making ships that get much bigger than the Falcon.  Plodding your cruiser along at the 1-up template is going to be no fun, as it removes a tactical aspect from the game.  I'm intersted to see what they do with it, but there are issues.

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Suffice it to say the Battle of Hoth would make an incredibly good board game that could, a la DUST Tactics, eventually transition into a miniatures game.  As far as AT-AT movement goes, they're tremendous fire power and armor renders their slow speed unproblematic if uninteresting over short distances.  The movement of an AT-AT would, I suppose, really be a kind of counter tracking how long the Rebels have until they lose the game.  Of course, pulling off the tow cable trip maneuver might be extremely difficult with the AT-AT covered by AT-ST.  The AT-ST in turn would need to worry about the turrets and possibly the air speeders should the Rebel player spare their attention away from the AT-AT "count down" factor.  It would be an expensive board game but an awesome one.

So I'm not actually trying to drag this off-topic entirely.  I just got hung up thinking about the point of large scale ship movement in a game about dog fighting.  It seems to me that large ships, just like the AT-ATs in the above example, function mostly as game timers:  they take or inflict so much damage or move a certain distance or get tagged with beacons/are scanned, etc, etc, etc.  I'd think that large ships would basically be "interactive terrain."

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Manchu said:

Suffice it to say the Battle of Hoth would make an incredibly good board game that could, a la DUST Tactics, eventually transition into a miniatures game.  As far as AT-AT movement goes, they're tremendous fire power and armor renders their slow speed unproblematic if uninteresting over short distances.  The movement of an AT-AT would, I suppose, really be a kind of counter tracking how long the Rebels have until they lose the game.  Of course, pulling off the tow cable trip maneuver might be extremely difficult with the AT-AT covered by AT-ST.  The AT-ST in turn would need to worry about the turrets and possibly the air speeders should the Rebel player spare their attention away from the AT-AT "count down" factor.  It would be an expensive board game but an awesome one.

So I'm not actually trying to drag this off-topic entirely.  I just got hung up thinking about the point of large scale ship movement in a game about dog fighting.  It seems to me that large ships, just like the AT-ATs in the above example, function mostly as game timers:  they take or inflict so much damage or move a certain distance or get tagged with beacons/are scanned, etc, etc, etc.  I'd think that large ships would basically be "interactive terrain."

I think you make excellent points.

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KristoffStark said:

Manchu said:

 

Suffice it to say the Battle of Hoth would make an incredibly good board game that could, a la DUST Tactics, eventually transition into a miniatures game.  As far as AT-AT movement goes, they're tremendous fire power and armor renders their slow speed unproblematic if uninteresting over short distances.  The movement of an AT-AT would, I suppose, really be a kind of counter tracking how long the Rebels have until they lose the game.  Of course, pulling off the tow cable trip maneuver might be extremely difficult with the AT-AT covered by AT-ST.  The AT-ST in turn would need to worry about the turrets and possibly the air speeders should the Rebel player spare their attention away from the AT-AT "count down" factor.  It would be an expensive board game but an awesome one.

So I'm not actually trying to drag this off-topic entirely.  I just got hung up thinking about the point of large scale ship movement in a game about dog fighting.  It seems to me that large ships, just like the AT-ATs in the above example, function mostly as game timers:  they take or inflict so much damage or move a certain distance or get tagged with beacons/are scanned, etc, etc, etc.  I'd think that large ships would basically be "interactive terrain."

 

 

I think you make excellent points.

Seconded.

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This is a REALLY tough issue to weigh in on. let's consider:

1. A big part of me wants to say it's just semantics; "large" just meant "bigger." These are human people, after all. But then… there's the inevitable question of why the MF & Slave would be classified as "medium." That does imply that there's something more in the pipes.

2. Game use/finanancial viability. I actually misspoke about the 1/350 Blockade Runner; it's not 15", it's 18". That would make a 1/200 miniature well over 22". Guys, I just don't see it happening! Can you imagine the cost, first off? Me, I have fairly deep pockets; I'd buy one just to put on the shelf as a collectible. But considering the game limitations of such a piece, combined with the cost, I just see… no. Not happening. And other options are even less likely: Jedi consular cruiser? No weapons, almost as big as the corvette, and more obscure. Wild Karrde? How many of you even know what that IS much less would be willing to cough up $50 for one? Rebel transport - expect about $30 for a ship with no combat capability. A prop. Ehhh… no?

3. Scale. When we first actually started to get real friggin' information, the designers talked about how important it was to make everything accurate in terms of scale. They used the best information available, and developed multiple prototypes to make everything Right. If they went "relative scale" with capitol ships, it'd be like peeing all over their own mandate. I suppose it could happen, to make the corporate goons happy, but I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the techs' workspace to hear about how the Putties wrecked the vision of the game over money. I mean, they worked HARD. Just flush that down the toilet? For some shrimpy, off-scale Corellian Corvette? Frankly, I wouldn't want one.

4. So, all that doesn't give any real answers - but it raises a whole lotta questions. GOOD questions. Guess we'll just wait! There's some good ground to cover before all that becomes a real stress point.

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 I do not have this game yet. But I wouldn't mind a big starship just to hang from the ceiling in the gameroom with the playing table underneath it. Just for atmosphere.

 

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IG-58 said:

 Wild Karrde? How many of you even know what that IS much less would be willing to cough up $50 for one?

Ya, I can't think of a single person who would be interested in a ship named the Wild Karrde.  Not me certainly. </sarcasm>

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