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booored

Was really excited .. then I see it is talisman with a new skin… LAME

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Was super excited as soon as I saw this then I see that it is "based on the Talisman System" arguably the WORST rpg board game system ever in history… gone form the on my list to forget about it.

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Have You seen it? It was announced yesterday, we know almost nothing about it. Wait with Your hatred until something more will be revealed ;).

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Even if it is simply a remodded Talisman, I doubt FFG would simply poop out the EXACT same game. Previous poster is right. The paucity of information prevents proper judgment.

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Nemomon said:

Have You seen it? It was announced yesterday, we know almost nothing about it. Wait with Your hatred until something more will be revealed ;).

It says right in the news item that is uses the talisman mechanics.

"Building on the foundations of the Talisman system"

Now, i was exaggerating I'm sure they will mod it a little.. but it is still suing Talisman, and that game is really really REALLY bad. Even won Tom vassel's worst adventure charicter builder game (see mage knght review)

vandimar77 said:

My reaction was similar… uh… except rather than lame I thought WIN.

lol, some people like talisman for some reason it is true :)

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…and some people seem to think Tom Vasel is unbiased in his reviews.

Rather than waste my time trying to preach to those that have already decided that Talisman is not for them (read LAME, WORST, REALLY BAD) I shall just post what Michael Barnes posted over in the comments for Talisman, mostly I recall in reply to a certain Vasel "review"…

OK, I'll tell you up front that the supposed "discerning" gamers who ***** and moan about the luck/randomness/chaos in TALISMAN or the assumption that the game lacks "meaningful choices" (whatever that means in the context of a f&%king board game)just don't get it. They never will, and for those Days of Wonder shills, middle managers, and spreadsheet fanatics there's plenty of games out there to satisfy their desire to amoritize, impress, and bid their way to victory. Make no mistake- the 4th edition of TALISMAN will not make you a believer if you didn't like it to begin with, nor should it because it is first and foremost a return of the classic 2nd edition of the game which has not, contrary to some opinions here, become "dated" or "aged poorly". Nor is the appeal of the game somehow limited to some hazy sense of nostalgia. In fact, having not played the base game without expansions, I was really amazed at how good a game TALISMAN really is- even with THE CITY, DUNGEON, TIMESCAPE, et. al. stripped away. It's simple, almost elemental, and definitely classical. But dated? That's like saying that Johnny Cash records are dated. No- it doesn't feature the currently in-vogue mechanics and it's not one of these oh-so-clever minimalist Eurogames where the designer's goal was to abstract everything interesting away to a simple flowchart. But that doesn't make it any less vital, exciting, and fun, then it was when I played it for the first time nearly 20 years ago. What's more significant is that returning to TALISMAN made me realize that a lot of what's missing in games today is a real sense of character, a palpable heart and soul that makes the game truly unique. Even amongst games like TALISMAN inspired games like PROPHECY or FFG's fantasy titles, TALISMAN stands out as something singular in the hobby that has proven over the past 25 years to be a timeless, perennial game that will likely be played and enjoyed long after the faddish games that litter the hobby now are long forgotten. Fortunately, this is also the best produced edition of TALISMAN to date although I do miss the old GW-style artwork but it's a beautiful set that manages to capture baroque 1980s-style fantasy with modern production values in a very classy package. Black Industries has really got their work cut out for them now- I'm already ready for the expansions!

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Heh. I'll be honest and say that I don't think that base talisman (minus expansions) is up to much. It's too random, unbalanced and can often take way too long to hold a group's interest (again, mainly dependent on the various player's luck of the dice). Add a few expansions though, and the brilliance begins to shine through. Some boardgames get worse with too many expansions added in (I'm looking at you Arkham Horror), but Talisman just gets better and better, and the playing time becomes more managable. Granted, it's no Runebound in the fantasy adventure with a sort of psuedo-RPG twist division (Runebound pretty much supplanted Talisman as my favourite game of this kind), but it's great fun with the right group of players. Now a 40k themed update, that takes some of the base concepts of Talisman but also gives said concepts a FFG gameplay tweaking overhaul sounds like it could be something special.

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completely agree, the 40K theme will defiantly be a plus to this version of talisman… but regardless of that dudes long analysis, for me .. it just isn't fun.. AT ALL. You can say w/e you like and go on and on about it.. but if you and your play group do not have fun playing it.. then .. well that is it.

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vandimar77 said:

 Granted, it's no Runebound in the fantasy adventure with a sort of psuedo-RPG twist division (Runebound pretty much supplanted Talisman as my favourite game of this kind), but it's great fun with the right group of players.

Wait… is Runebound the one that is essentially "Grinding: The Board Game"?

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Relic seems more like an "advance" Talisman than simply Talisman with a new skin and theme.I like what I've seen so far.

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The real problem is that this isn't a new game.. I mean.. with all the top game designers out there and FFGs high standards of components and everything.. this was a chance to really make a new and terrific scifi rpg / combat style game. I mean look at Mage Knight… THAT is how you make a new game. Hire a awesome designer and let them go nutz on the theme.

Instead we get a talisman skin (well.. maybe we will still need to see and the theme is awesome enough for me to try it no matter what) It is like say Dawn of War 3 came out on PC (a 40K rts game) and then you find out it is just a Starcraft 2 mod.. some new gfx and some new unit rules… ..

lame.

This just feels like "Lets make some money for the least amount of effort… get some new images… wrap it up in a existing game system package it and sell it.. No design time, no risk nothing.. It feels like a plain and simple soulless money grab.

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borithan said:

vandimar77 said:

Granted, it's no Runebound in the fantasy adventure with a sort of psuedo-RPG twist division (Runebound pretty much supplanted Talisman as my favourite game of this kind), but it's great fun with the right group of players.

Wait… is Runebound the one that is essentially "Grinding: The Board Game"?

I have this game and it appeals to me greatly on many levels.. but it just nvr hits the table for some reason.. I just can nto get people interested in playing it. I've only played it twice and it didn;t seam that grindy.. though I am not sure what you mean by that… I in fact really like it.. but as I said.. as a game I think it is a fail, as people simply do not want to play it.

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booored said:

I mean look at Mage Knight… THAT is how you make a new game. Hire a awesome designer and let them go nutz on the theme.

When I look at MK, I see an adventure game, removed of adventure and tons of puzzle crap added to it.

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booored said:

It is like say Dawn of War 3 came out on PC (a 40K rts game) and then you find out it is just a Starcraft 2 mod.. some new gfx and some new unit rules.

 

Well you might as well moan that Starcraft II is just a Command & Conquer or Dune clone. But that aside - 

 

Talisman has some old-school mechanics at it's heart such as roll and move, random difficulty spikes and lots of luck elements but it's a game where people forgive all of that for various reasons. It's a light-hearted game where people can play while having a chat and a beer. There is no analysis paralysis in Talisman! Whether its for reasons of nostalgia or just for seeing loads of nice expandable artwork across a huge variety of cards, it scratches a gaming itch for a lot of people.

 

Talisman has plenty of flaws but I'd play it over Agricola any day of the week.

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borithan said:

vandimar77 said:

 

 Granted, it's no Runebound in the fantasy adventure with a sort of psuedo-RPG twist division (Runebound pretty much supplanted Talisman as my favourite game of this kind), but it's great fun with the right group of players.

 

Wait… is Runebound the one that is essentially "Grinding: The Board Game"?

 

Um… nope. Wouldn't that be skateboard related?

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Dam said:

booored said:

 

I mean look at Mage Knight… THAT is how you make a new game. Hire a awesome designer and let them go nutz on the theme.

 

 

When I look at MK, I see an adventure game, removed of adventure and tons of puzzle crap added to it.

If you like the game or not has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make….

My point is that the game has some imo neat mechanics and regardless of if you like it or not the game is "new". It is not a game that has been around for many revisions tons of expansions and played for decades by 1000s of people.. This game is just a skin.,, there is no thought in it.. just lets wrap up an ip on a existing rules system and people will buy it.. we do not have to develop anything, we do not take any risks.. we just pump out a game fast food style as quickly as possible to fill a market need.

I can not believe people are sitting here saying they want to buy and play a game THEY ALREADY OWN. I mean this is like going to BGG and printing out the DUNE total conversion of a Game of Thrones. This is what I would expect form a free fan customisation job.

I do think this I am being unfair in simply wanting a NEW game when I buy a box.

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booored said:

I can not believe people are sitting here saying they want to buy and play a game THEY ALREADY OWN.

 

Well, clearly it's not at all like buying a game we already own. Firstly, the description says that it's based on the Talisman system. This is not the same as a re-skinning. Even if the amount of Relic's new mechanics turns out to be limited that dosnt mean it;s not worth getting. Plenty of people love the 40K background material and it's imagery and the chance to immerse ourselves in a 40K adventure with or without some old-fashioned mechanics is welcomed in my opinion.

New gaming opportunities are not just about mechanics. Games are about more than that.

 

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 Booored and everybody who say "I'll pass". Let me say just one simple thing: you are judging a product you did not see, did not play, do not know. It is "based" on Talisman. Based. Nobody said it IS Talisman. 

I am pleased to hear there is a new Wh40k game based on a rather simple game because I am tired of too complicated titles. And I hope the FFG people are not ignorants and know how to enhance the game fun, so "based" sounds good to me.

To sum up: I think it is really not very wise to judge anything one has not seen nor played nor known before.

 

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Marcin Przybyłek said:

 

 Booored and everybody who say "I'll pass". Let me say just one simple thing: you are judging a product you did not see, did not play, do not know. It is "based" on Talisman. Based. Nobody said it IS Talisman. 

I am pleased to hear there is a new Wh40k game based on a rather simple game because I am tired of too complicated titles. And I hope the FFG people are not ignorants and know how to enhance the game fun, so "based" sounds good to me.

To sum up: I think it is really not very wise to judge anything one has not seen nor played nor known before.

 

 

 

yeah fair enough.. and in truth I agree with you on complexity my flatmate recently got "A Touch of Evil" witch is basically Arkham Horror lite.. it is a game that is much simpler than AH and is very much alike… but the simplicity really makes is so fast to set up, teach to others and play.. so it seams to be hitting the table more often.

I'm a pretty big 40K fan so while I am complaining I will prob be trying this out… though it is not longer a "insta-buy". I stand by my comments though that I would have preferred a brand new game. No mater how they mod it the game will have strong ties to Talisman, so we do have a fairly good idea what to expect… There are going to be no awesome new macanics you just get blown away by.

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 That's true. But, you know, I am rather curious of this famous Talisman mechanics. I remember playing it in the early nineties and haven't done that till now. I am older, more mature, maybe I will discover something new about it? :). And, to repeat it again, I feel rather tired of learning new mechanics, so a good simple one would do me good :).

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I really didnt want to post here coz dont care much for the haters, but i love talisman and hope they dont over complicate or drift too far from the core rules

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