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SirElvis

The Shadow Rune

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The Shield of Zorek's Favor, Scorpion's Kiss and the Duskblade all three say that "this lieutenant [carrying the relic]" gains some abilty. Notably the Duskblade adds a surge ability to the carriers attack.

In contrast The Shadow Rune says that "Each of your attacks gain: […]". in combination with the rules book page 22 where it says that "[…] the relic's abilities can be used by the overlord" (and not "by the lieutenant carrying the relic") this can be constructed to mean that your attacks refers to any attacks the overlord makes (through his monsters).

This seems to me to make the rune really strong and I'd say that to be a miss-construction of the rules. But as I do not yet have a feel for the power level of items and relics in the game I'm interested in other opinions.

 

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Per rule book pg 22 under Relics:

The overlord version of a relic may be wielded by any lieutenant, and
this is the only way the relic’s abilities can be used by the overlord. If the
overlord has no lieutenant in a given quest, or if he opts to leave his relic
behind (see below), he receives no benefit for the relic’s abilities. Each
lieutenant can wield only one relic.

So, no, it doesn't affect every overlord attack. When it says "your" it means the lieutenant.

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You are qouting exactly the part of the rules that I'm using to do my miss-construction: The relic is wielded by the lieutenant, but the relic's abilities are used by the overlord.

Also all relics either provide abilites that specificly bolster this lieutenant (Duskblade, Scorpion's Kiss and Shield of Zorek's Favor) or allow the overlord, who is revered to as you multiple times (Staff of Shadows: "[…] discard 1Overlord card from your hand", "You may do this at any time […]"; Bones of Woe: "At the start of each of your turns […]") to do something.

Since The Shadow Rune also grants you the ability it would seem to fall in line with the later group and thus my construction.

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SirElvis said:

You are qouting exactly the part of the rules that I'm using to do my miss-construction: The relic is wielded by the lieutenant, but the relic's abilities are used by the overlord.

Also all relics either provide abilites that specificly bolster this lieutenant (Duskblade, Scorpion's Kiss and Shield of Zorek's Favor) or allow the overlord, who is revered to as you multiple times (Staff of Shadows: "[…] discard 1Overlord card from your hand", "You may do this at any time […]"; Bones of Woe: "At the start of each of your turns […]") to do something.

Since The Shadow Rune also grants you the ability it would seem to fall in line with the later group and thus my construction.

Well, this comes under my nitpicking category. But, if you want to pick bones about it, the OL doesn't have attacks. The OL activates his monster and lieutenants, who have attacks. So, even though the card says "your", it cannot reference the OL, because the OL doesn't come down into the dungeon and attack the players, the monsters do.

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wootersl said:

Well, this comes under my nitpicking category. But, if you want to pick bones about it, the OL doesn't have attacks. The OL activates his monster and lieutenants, who have attacks. So, even though the card says "your", it cannot reference the OL, because the OL doesn't come down into the dungeon and attack the players, the monsters do.

Right! So that relic is absolutly usesless to the overlord and his lieutenants… ;)

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SirElvis said:

wootersl said:

 

Well, this comes under my nitpicking category. But, if you want to pick bones about it, the OL doesn't have attacks. The OL activates his monster and lieutenants, who have attacks. So, even though the card says "your", it cannot reference the OL, because the OL doesn't come down into the dungeon and attack the players, the monsters do.

 

 

Right! So that relic is absolutly usesless to the overlord and his lieutenants… ;)

rofl. Correct. So tear up the card and throw it away. There. Problem solved. :)

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So the argument is that as long as a lieutenant is holding the Shadow Rune, every attack made by ALL of the OL's monsters in the encounter gains the ability listed on the card?

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Malicain said:

Is this a Call of Cthulhu thread, I am going insane.

No, this is Mansions of Madness. You want the thread within Living Card Games. demonio.gif

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 Then why would there be + Range surge in Shadow Rune, if only the liutenant could use it and Zachareth is a melee fighter?

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Naksahtanut said:

 Then why would there be + Range surge in Shadow Rune, if only the liutenant could use it and Zachareth is a melee fighter?

You're right!

Also there is only one encounter where the Overlord can actually use the relic. You gain it in the Interlude and after that Zachareth is only present in the second encounter of the Finale. In contrast the hero variant of the Shadow Rune comes into play in all three Act 2 quests and the Finale. So my interpretation of the evil Shadow Rune might actually be what was intended.

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SirElvis said:

[…] You gain it in the Interlude and after that Zachareth is only present in the second encounter of the Finale. […]

It's even more restricted. Only in The Man Who Would be King the Shadow Rune is actually used. In the Gryvon Unleased it is discarded during setup making the dragon a bit stronger. So only if the Overlord wins the Interlude and at lease two Act 2 quest it will be used in one single encounter. That really justifies it being strong…

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Many hero skills and abilities let "you" do something. Clearly this means just the one hero, not all of a player's heroes. Could this be the same?

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Naksahtanut said:

 Then why would there be + Range surge in Shadow Rune, if only the liutenant could use it and Zachareth is a melee fighter?

He's a hybrid fighter.  He can melee attack or cast Shadow Bolt.

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 The Shadow Rune influences 'your' attacks.

The Shadow Rune can only be used by Baron Zachareth.

The Overlord is Baron Zachareth.

Your attacks are Baron Zachareth's attacks.

 

Makes sense to me :)

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Karui_Kage said:

 The Shadow Rune influences 'your' attacks.

The Shadow Rune can only be used by Baron Zachareth.

The Overlord is Baron Zachareth.

Your attacks are Baron Zachareth's attacks.

 

Makes sense to me :)

 

Right. That's not what his complaint is though. He's saying. Baron Zachareth has the Shadow Rune attached, so the other monsters the OL control get the bonus also. That's not the case. Only the Baron would be able to use the Shadow Rune.

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The Shadow Rune does say, "Each of your attacks gain…"

But just above that line it says Zachareth only.

That's why the second line refers to him specifically.

Only Zachareth can use this rune, and therefore its powers may only be used when Zachareth attacks.

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wootersl said:

Karui_Kage said:

 

 The Shadow Rune influences 'your' attacks.

The Shadow Rune can only be used by Baron Zachareth.

The Overlord is Baron Zachareth.

Your attacks are Baron Zachareth's attacks.

 

Makes sense to me :)

 

 

 

Right. That's not what his complaint is though. He's saying. Baron Zachareth has the Shadow Rune attached, so the other monsters the OL control get the bonus also. That's not the case. Only the Baron would be able to use the Shadow Rune.

 

My point was mostly a comedic one. I was implying that by saying 'your' attacks, you being the Overlord/Baron Zachareth, it was indeed saying that 'your' attacks are just the Baron's attacks. "You" are not a Cave Spider, Dragon, "you" are the Baron. :)

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Think one thing, if it affects only Zachareth … why put "every one of your attacs"?
If you do not put that phrase, the relic would affect only Zachareth so it's absurd that with that sentence the relic do the same

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I think I agree that it's intended for ALL of the overlords attacks (since it's worded differently than all the other upgrade relics) but it would be nice to get confirmation one way or the other.

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Actually reading over "Her Magesty's Malice" from the new expansion it also has the "Each of Your Attacks gains:" so I'm not sure which way this leans.

I think Fantasy Flight should standardize the wording in these types of items in the future.  For example they should all read "The Equiped Lieutenant Gains" since unlike the heroes where you are controlling a single figure the overlord is controlling a mulitude of figures so it can lead to confusions such as this.

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My take on this is the word "your" refers to the wielder (Zachareth, in the case of "The Shadow Rune").  The rule in question ("…and this is the only way the relic's abilities can be used by the overlord") is most likely intended to prevent an overlord from giving a monster the relic.  The writer probably didn't think the statement would be open to misinterpretation, but it could probably be clarified as "The overlord version of a relic may only be wielded by a lieutenant".

To further clarify, the rulebook defines lieutenants as such: "Lieutenants are powerful characters controlled by the overlord player."  Characters and controlled are both operative words in this statement.  Each character has their own persona.  Though the overlord may control the character (including having him use the relic you have given to him - i.e. his relic), the overlord is not that character.

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So what happens with "Duskblade"??

In that card says:

"Each of this lieutenat's attacks gains:

surge: Pierce 5"

BUT in the "shadow rune" dont say that…it says:

"Each of your attacks gain:"

I think that both sentence are SO different….

Do you say that "yours" mean zachareth attacks? so I supose that in "Bones of Woe", when it syas: "at the start of each of your turns, roll the attack dice" its the turns of the lieutenant that have the relic not overlord turns?? I think that in this case all people think that is at the start of overlord turn so…if in that relic "yours" is the overlord…why in the other relic "your" is the lieutenant?

I think that in both cases, "your" is refering to overlord, cause its very easy to put "lieutenant", and in other relics, like Duskblade its very clear…so if they dont put "this lieutenant" its cause the ability is global.

I repeat the same, the shadow rune without that sentence, affect only zachareth…so why is the dessigner is going to put that sentece if the relic is going to do the same???atontado that sounds a bad explication for me…

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