Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Musclewizard

Female Soldiers in the IG and Pregnancy

Recommended Posts

 

There's a couple of ways of doing it:

Castration, or if you're from a slightly more backwards planet they might just slam the family jewels between a couple of half-bricks and the 22nd Squeaky Man Division is born instead of the 22nd Rampant Fornicators and Childcare facility. Problem with altering nuts is there's less testosterone and when there's less testosterone, you're less likely to butcher the living **** out of your fellow heretical man, xenos or each other. Diddling womens bits to not-work is slightly more difficult and figure if they're being that randy, the Dept Munitorium will roster them off to 'Colony Training' where they can f**k, bake bread, fight and breed all they want.

Just being in the Army. For those of you who are unfortunate enough to know what that is, basically at any point the soldiers even look mildly relaxed someone will decide that you need to run 20-30km with full kit or some other horrible, physical activity to the point that at the end of the day, lifting a fork in a mess tin becomes a sheer act of will. The thought of jumping up and down on anyone with any kind of vigor is even less. Plus there's the other great military tradition, which has mostly fallen out of contemporary armies in favour of the above practice and that is 'Aggressive Aversion Therapy'. Also known as corporal punishiment and in the case of the Imperial Guard, plenty of capital punishment!

Dropped a las gun charge pack and lost it?- Thats a beating!

Forget to bring enough ammo and ran out in a battle?- Thats a beating!

Modified your weapon without permission?- Thats a beating and after we've finished beating you, you'll be shot

Left wargear on the battlefield and didn't retreive it? You get shot

Didn't salute an officer?- Thats a beating, 90days solitary and another beating when you get out

Traded your lamp pack for a roll in the hay with one of the natives?- you get shot

Basically the Imperial Guard will beat the f**king crap out of your miserable hide for what we in the nice, politically correct era we're in, would consider only trivial offences or offences that aren't your fault and part of the mechanism. Applied fairly, this kind of enforcement does actually work to some degree, the ramifications of too much or too little I'll leave to your own research. But for the game purposes, the IG is a horrible, **** place to work even when you're not expected to kill a carnifex with a flashlight and very nearly as dangerous.

Dey put stuff in da grub? Playing on an old soldiers tale that they put Bromine in the rat-packs to make you want to screw things less, might actually be true in 40K where the Dept Munitorium supplies all your vitals and needs. They also decide what you do/don't need! If they decide you don't need to be dipping your wick in your fellow soldiers, they're perfectly in their rights to never give you an erection about anything, ever because they do actually own you like a piece of meat. Of course if the force gets lost in some alien wilderness for 100 years and they run out of normal food and go native, breed and create a new society when they're next discovered. Well its just a bonus really that there's more warm bodies to tithe and send off to the next war!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MKX said:

Dey put stuff in da grub? Playing on an old soldiers tale that they put Bromine in the rat-packs to make you want to screw things less, might actually be true in 40K where the Dept Munitorium supplies all your vitals and needs.
Wow, I totally forgot about this, but now I remember having read about it as well. I suppose that'd be the easiest solution, heh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Ok, I agree with Nameless2all that there is alot of augmentics and prosthetics that you can get in the grimdark future:

Gaunt's Ghosts- Merrt gets a big ugly jaw after his got shot off, Domor gets big binocular like eyes with different visual settings, Gaunt also gets new eyes after Only in Death but they are more advanced and look just like normal eyes except they can heat see and all that crap, Mad Larkin gets a prosthtic nalwood foot after Gaunt cuts it off to save him from being stuck under a tank wreck.

Also in the Ghosts it's mentioned that the follower camps have whores, wives and girlfriends for the soldiers during their time off and out of combat zones or during warp transit: YOU NEED TO KEEP SOLDIERS HAPPY otherwise one commissar and a few high officers won't stand a chance against half the regiment that want to stick it in something and are therefore pissed and have lasguns: in an intense firefight, who's going to notice if you shoot the commissar in the back?

Again from the Ghosts: Gaunt gets a son from the remains of Vervunhive after he screws an uphive lady. Since he is the highest ranking officer there there is no one to say you can't do that and he gets away with it. Also Meyn and Rawne both have been Jessi Banda's sexual partner and she hasn't gotten pregnant so I guess there are either condoms or morning after pills so that you can't get pregnant. And Caffran and Criid were also together and she never got pregnant either, so whichever way you want to explain it go ahead. It's your discretion and as people have pointed out: you always need cooks and medics and you can always put her as an adjundant to a senior officer who never goes into battle but stays in the bunker overlooking everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Now here's a thought: What if the Commissar is being romantically pursued by one of the grunts? Does s/he refuse outright, or keep them at arms length the whole time, or allow it on the basis that the relationship isn't allowed to interfere with their professional careers?

Either way, it will be fairly obvious who will wear the pants in that relationship.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boss Gitsmasha said:

 Now here's a thought: What if the Commissar is being romantically pursued by one of the grunts? Does s/he refuse outright, or keep them at arms length the whole time, or allow it on the basis that the relationship isn't allowed to interfere with their professional careers?

Either way, it will be fairly obvious who will wear the pants in that relationship.

 

Well assuming anyone could fine one of those scary bastards actually loveable I think the Comissar would do his best to get the grunt away from thinking about love and instead have him refocus on fighting.
I think this would be achieved probably by some sort of verbal violation akin to "that" scene from Full Metal Jacket with possibly some additional beatings thrown in for good measure.
Of all the elements in the Guards I'd expect Comissars to be the ones that would disagree the strongest with relationships within the Guard (except maybe with camp followers).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 In mixed troops it's going to be hard to keep the female guardsmen from becoming pregnant, besides rules and punishment, some regiments could issue out a monthly injection of birth control. Also every guardsmen would probably have condoms issued. Otherwise you risk losing half your troops due to pregnancy and **** like that. Also you risk having the males worry about the pregnancy rather than task at hand, because they're both in the front. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing to remember is that schola progeniums are filled with "children of the guard." Most commissars and storm troopers are the offspring of guard parents or other Imperial officers that cannot care for their children themselves due to their duty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TCBC Freak said:

One thing to remember is that schola progeniums are filled with "children of the guard."
I believe that was referring to any children born before an Imperial official is to be transferred to another world, but who would be unable to accompany them, at least going by Codex fluff. It was also somewhat more limited in that it did not seem to apply to the orphans of lowly Guardsmen but rather officers and adepts, though I'd have to re-read the passages to be sure …

However, if we want to go back to the really old fluff, a 1st Edition article on Whiteshields mentioned the Imperial Guard drafting the children of soldiers into their own ranks as soon as they grow of age. It is of note that the source specifically referred to garrisoned regiments, though. Given that even current Codex fluff still talks of Imperial Guard regiments being allowed to settle down after having survived the decades of their tour of duty (think Roman Legion style), this might still apply.

I suppose in some way it might also be useful to take inspiration from real life mixed regiments into consideration if one wants to keep things at such a level of realism. How did the Soviets do it, for example? I confess this is one topic where my own WW2 amateur knowledge is sadly insufficient.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

I dunno, Commissar Cain seemed like a pretty nice guy.

Yes, that's simply one of those cases where you as a player have to decide which "version" of Commissar you like more / which one you want to follow in your game. Cain differs from the "GW standard" in more than just his personality; apparently he was also raised in a Schola that for some inexplicable reason did not practice the usual gender segregation, had very relaxed rules for its teachers, and educated future Commissar Cadets and Sororitas Novices on-site by senior representatives of said organisations rather than having progena raised by Drill-Abbots before shipping them off to other Imperial Adepta for specialised training. Not to mention that Cain could have easily opted to become a lowly civilian scribe if he never actually wanted to get himself into danger and face the Emperor's enemies on the battlefield, but of course this would not have fit the author's idea for the story.

It's all a question of which sources you want to go by for your personal interpretation of the setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They do a lot of stuff with the children of Imperial servants, just due to the huge variety imposed upon the Imperium by the simple fact of its immense size. So yeah there are probably some units that have trickleback in the form of Guardsmens' children taking up the life from being a camp follower. That doesn't mean the Scholam isn't the primary destination of orphans.

And the Soviets segregated their infantry units, though there weren't many all female ones. Women tended more toward piloting and irregular infantry (partisans and snipers), with some tank regiments I believed. I'd say most Imperial Guard regiments are segregated, with cases like the Ghosts and Cain's Valhallan's being the general exception, wherein they both became mixed through reinforcements. Though as stated earlier, the Imperium is a big place, so you're bound to find all sorts of arrangments (the Horus Heresy book Legion presents an interesting arrangment in the form of the Geno Five-Two Chiliad).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blood Pact said:

So yeah there are probably some units that have trickleback in the formof Guardsmens' children taking up the life from being a camp follower. That doesn't mean the Scholam isn't the primary destination of orphans.

Hm, our interpretations of the setting differ in this detail, then. To me, it just doesn't seem practical to secure interstellar transportation for some unimportant Guardsman's infant; space travel just isn't common enough for the Imperium to afford such a policy. And if we'd be talking children of newly raised regiments, I would assume that they simply stay behind on the parent's homeworld to be raised by relatives, the tribe, or the Hive gang, or perhaps non-Schola orphanages and individual Preachers. Seeing that a world has a degree of control over what troops to nominate for the tithe, parents might even be able to "opt out" (depending on the planet in question) if their children would otherwise have to be abandoned.

Matter of perception, I guess?

Blood Pact said:

And the Soviets segregated their infantry units, though there weren't many all female ones.

That was true for WW1 (with special "Women's Death Battallions" being formed), but in WW2 there were no segregated infantry units at all - instead women served in the same units as the men did (also see this picture, supposedly the 8th Guards division of the 62nd Army on the streets of Odessa). There were, however, all-female air force, anti-air and sniper formations. Some of them, like the 586th interceptor squadron, started out as all-female but became mixed later on, whereas anti-air became and remained some sort of a woman's domain throughout the war. I've also heard of female tankers, but was unable to dig up anything about their units.

There is frustratingly little information about life in such units, or special regulations or individual stories. I keep hoping someone may have spotted other sources I've not yet seen. Guess most sources are in Russian…

 

DW: Grimdark. I could totally see the Munitorum having relocation to a Punitive Battalion as a punishment for getting pregnant. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would assume mandatory contraceptives are given out - mixing them into the rations sounds about right. Castrating the male parts of the regiment does absolutely nothing as the women could still get pregnant from other sources. That being said, I don't think anything permanent would be done - life is the Emperor's currency, after all, and it certainly wouldn't do to have the new nobility of a conquered planet (which is the future any guard regiment aspires to, after all) be incapable of producing offspring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lynata said:

Blood Pact said:

So yeah there are probably some units that have trickleback in the formof Guardsmens' children taking up the life from being a camp follower. That doesn't mean the Scholam isn't the primary destination of orphans.

Hm, our interpretations of the setting differ in this detail, then. To me, it just doesn't seem practical to secure interstellar transportation for some unimportant Guardsman's infant; space travel just isn't common enough for the Imperium to afford such a policy. And if we'd be talking children of newly raised regiments, I would assume that they simply stay behind on the parent's homeworld to be raised by relatives, the tribe, or the Hive gang, or perhaps non-Schola orphanages and individual Preachers. Seeing that a world has a degree of control over what troops to nominate for the tithe, parents might even be able to "opt out" (depending on the planet in question) if their children would otherwise have to be abandoned.

Matter of perception, I guess?

No I'm actually saying the same thing. You've just misunderstood. I'm not saying they ferry around the children of some pissant Guardsmen when they die, or even when they're alive for that matter (save as part of the standard compliment of camp followers). When I say they're going to be raised in to the regiments of their parents, I mean it's going to happen -right there-, in this thick of it more or less. They're surrounded by experienced soldiers who can bring them up to form, they hardly need to be shipped back to some training facility on the regiment's homeworld. In this case I'm talking just about the children that are produced over years of campaigning, not the ones left back home from before they were raised and shipped out.

But as usual, this is the Imperium, and it's lunacy to say anything is ever done in any uniform way, when this is the same Imperium that actually loses whole armies (meaning hundreds of thousands, or even millions of soldiers). Some camp followers probably stay followers all their life, growing up to fill the roles of those who die or other wise move on somewhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My bad, I think I misunderstood your sentence about the Schola then.

And yes, there's certainly a lot of room for coming up with all sorts of own ideas. One of the primary reasons why the Imperium was written up to be so big and diverse, after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given a Schola Progenium tends to be heavily staffed by the children of Imperium militaries, they probably get shipped there with some regularity. Its pretty much inevitable anyways, and has some advantages compared to the very minor, temporary loss of a single soldier, which would be for a few weeks at worst in most regiments: Your army is replenishing its stock of green recruits and support staff throughout a long campaign, with generally assured loyalty.

Consider a Fortress World like Cadia, where its how the entire planet operates…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blood Pact said:

 

No I'm actually saying the same thing. You've just misunderstood. I'm not saying they ferry around the children of some pissant Guardsmen when they die, or even when they're alive for that matter (save as part of the standard compliment of camp followers). When I say they're going to be raised in to the regiments of their parents, I mean it's going to happen -right there-, in this thick of it more or less. They're surrounded by experienced soldiers who can bring them up to form, they hardly need to be shipped back to some training facility on the regiment's homeworld. In this case I'm talking just about the children that are produced over years of campaigning, not the ones left back home from before they were raised and shipped out.

But as usual, this is the Imperium, and it's lunacy to say anything is ever done in any uniform way, when this is the same Imperium that actually loses whole armies (meaning hundreds of thousands, or even millions of soldiers). Some camp followers probably stay followers all their life, growing up to fill the roles of those who die or other wise move on somewhere else.

This doesn't address the issue of pregnancy since the child in question is adopted, but this kind of situation is exactly depicted in the Gaunt's Ghosts series, specifically The Armour of Contempt. Tona Criid adopts two children in book 3, and by the time of Contempt (book 10) the eldest, who has spent most of his life in the Ghost's contingent of camp followers and assorted hangers-on, has reached the age where he can join the Guard, and does so. Like you suggest, he's ridiculously well-prepared, having grown up amongst top-tier Guardsman all his life who were always happy to teach this kid tips and tricks.

Abnett chose to create (I assume) something called RIP, for Reindoctrination, something, and Prepatory (I think, this is all off the top of my head) which is a constantly running bootcamp for both new recruits such as Dalin Criid, people doing said camp as punishment, and whatever the other category I'm forgetting is. So yes, it's Black LIbrary "canon," but the idea has definitely been explored by one of their established authors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HTMC said:

Abnett chose to create (I assume) something called RIP, for Reindoctrination, something, and Prepatory (I think, this is all off the top of my head) which is a constantly running bootcamp for both new recruits such as Dalin Criid, people doing said camp as punishment, and whatever the other category I'm forgetting is. So yes, it's Black LIbrary "canon," but the idea has definitely been explored by one of their established authors.

It's Retraining, Indoctrination and Punishment actually. Indoctrination for the new blood, Punishment for the screw-ups and Retraining for… I'm not sure. People recovering from injuries and possible augmetics, like Merrt? Specialists that retrained into new specialties out of necessity (like a tanker regiments being retrained as infantry after losing all their hard-to-replace tanks)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Penpen said:

HTMC said:

 

Abnett chose to create (I assume) something called RIP, for Reindoctrination, something, and Prepatory (I think, this is all off the top of my head) which is a constantly running bootcamp for both new recruits such as Dalin Criid, people doing said camp as punishment, and whatever the other category I'm forgetting is. So yes, it's Black LIbrary "canon," but the idea has definitely been explored by one of their established authors.

 

 

It's Retraining, Indoctrination and Punishment actually. Indoctrination for the new blood, Punishment for the screw-ups and Retraining for… I'm not sure. People recovering from injuries and possible augmetics, like Merrt? Specialists that retrained into new specialties out of necessity (like a tanker regiments being retrained as infantry after losing all their hard-to-replace tanks)?

Ah ok, that sounds much more correct :-P Thanks for the clarification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't this issue perfect to bring up during regiment creation? The Imperial Guard is big, and each regiment probably has it's own rules to a certain extent. This needen't solely up to the GM. Bring the players in on the discussion and decision, and at the least, no one will be blind-sided by it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this is what happened in afghanistan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2205803/Soldier-baby-frontline-Doctors-sent-UK-Army-girl--didnt-know-pregnant--gives-birth-Taliban-raid.html?ICO=most_read_module

Otherwise, I think it would be rare for female soldiers getting pregnant even if no contraception would be used. Severe stress, overly physical activity and poor nutrition is all known causes for women to stop ovulating and menstruating entirely. Just look at elite gymnastics women and those afflicted with anorexia nervosa, you get the point. In fact so rare that there maybe is no procedures to handle it. I definitely dont think that the imperium would do preventive surgery on every woman just for the abysmal risk of somenone getting pregnant, in that case they would probably start to operate away peoples appendices first beacuse appendicitis ought to be more common on the field than unexpected pregnancy..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reckon that the tech level and moral standards of the regiment's homeworld may play a big part. Hive worlds can't have widespread contreception otherwise they wouldn'thave such a problem with overpopulation. for the guard, I can see contrceptives in the food for some, some from shrine worlds may take vows of chastity (with punishments for the transgressors) but given the huge size of an armys logistical train (which can only be an order of magnitude biggger in an intersteller war) it woud be easy for any accidents to be absorbed into the campfollowers and non fighting element of the guard who may even have kids of their own.

I think the ecclesiarchy might play a  big part in raising them, and many get shipped out to orphanages from the larger warzones were there is a constant stream of transports (carrying invalids and other individuals back, having dropped off the next wave or their other cargo).in smaller ones, like the Tanith seem to fight in, they are probably not even noticed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have actually had this conversation a number of times. The Imperial Guard (most not all) does allow guardsmen and women to have kids. I've read it in the conscript description of the 40k codex, some guard fluff, and its kind of logical with interstellar travel that could take 20 to 40 years, a lot can go wrong. I am shore guardsmen die all the time from accidents as with any machine its nice to have good replacement parts handy. As well as the tabula rasa acter. Starting with a black slate, an impressionable mind ripe for the molding. The makings of a fine soldier if I do say so myself.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...