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kookoobah

Lamenting Battlelore and a little wishful thinking

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 I came into Battlelore thinking it would be Warhammer-lite or something. Totally my mistake. Instead, I find out it's more of Chess-extreme.

Heard (actually read about) a great idea this morning, and it is so ******* awesome, that even though it's never going to happen, I felt like if I didn't share it, I was going to explode.

Battlelore would've benefitted from custom dice, custom lore decks and custom command decks for each race/faction. Each race/faction would then play differently, and it wouldn't have to be collectible and it would still work within the Battlelore system.

To anybody who's going to post something like: "Well, find another game. Battlelore isn't for you. This isn't about min/maxing cheesiness." I already know this. I just lamenting the loss of a dream. I thought Battlelore was going to be like that.

What's my point? Absolutely nothing. I just like wasting my time dreaming about what could've been.

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I see where you are coming from, but in all honesty one of the plusses for battlelore is that it is not Warhammer lite.

Now the game is under the FFG name hopefully we will see the development of more races and a coherent fantasy background (although as a light medieval game it is excellent).  See Richard Borg's comments and desires in his post on this forum.  To be honest I get an urge to develop the historical aspect to early pike and shot, using commercial figures, the C&C systems are that user friendly.

Returning to the topic, race specific cards and lore would (IMO) lead to the trap Warhammer and that other GW game fall into, the never ending arms race that means you have to have the latest models/codex(army list) to be competative.  In the end GW turns what was enjoyable games into money sinks.  I would far rather have a few race specific rules to get the flavour of a force, thereby keeping the abstract simplicity of the original design.

I have been a keen Warhammer player, but to be fair Battlelore and other "C&C" games (TIde of Iron is slowly reeling me in) get more play than the armies gathering dust on my shelves. 

Whatever you play it has to be fun, after all they are only games.

 

WilyC

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Well we know that after the Heros Expansion finally makes it out 2 more are scheduled for this year.The general speculation is that these 2 expansions will be the Elf & Undead Armies (but nothing to confirm this from FFG ).It might well be we'll see some Race Specific Command Cards.

 

But lets face it the Command Cards are rather generic(they really have to be)so more than likely the Army Troop types will play differently to highlight the differences between Races.Somewhat like making Dwarves Bold & Gobbos Frightened.

 

OD

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I disagree.  I'd like to hear more about this idea regarding race-specific dice or command cards.  Did you have any ideas?  Quite frankly I'm getting a bit worn of the same tactical options, and I'd like to see a second command deck released.

And I certainly don't think that the development of race-specific cards/dice is really that unreasonable.  Remember, Call to Arms had unit deployment decks, and I always got the impression that they were based upon French and English armies.  These decks didn't provide for two equally opposed forces either.  This isn't chess.  Besides, if played correctly, isn't each scenario to be played twice with each player commanding each army once then comparing the total number of victory flags?  That doesn't sound like an arms race to me.

I've often wondered why the command decks couldn't be customized.  And I'm not even talking about a collectability issue here (heaven forbid!!!).  But the ability to purchase extra command decks will allow a large pool of cards to focus on a play style.  Each card may have a point value, or a min-max allowance per deck...whatever.  But this would seem reasonable since it would permit each army to behave differently.  Thus, someone wanting to command a horse archer (Mongol) army would use a deck which better represented that play-style.

I know, I know....now we're getting pretty involved here.  But if you want a game to stay around for a LONG time then it needs to grow. 

Just my two cents.

-rob

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I’m fairly new to Battlelore, having less than 20 games under my belt, but, I have been playing role/war/board games as my main hobby for 28 years now, so I’m no stranger to games and mechanics.

 

When I picked up Battlelore it was to satisfy my need for a miniature war game that I could paint, yet store in a very concise place, since I long ago had to sell off and abandon my masses of miniatures, my grand game table, and my shelves of terrain when I moved from my house to a small apartment (a long story).

Once I started playing Battllore I was absolutely amazed at the design of this game. It manages to capture the feel of much larger and more complex miniature games, but, in a much simpler, more concise package that plays a lot faster. IMHO the game, by its design, actually contains much more tactical options than games like WFB during play, is much more challenging, and will definitely have more longevity of play. *

Another aspect that I found an absolutely excellent design are the expansion packs. If this were any other game, the expansions would contain new troops that had a bunch of new kewel powers that totally imbalanced and ruined the game. With Battlelore, the new abilities of troop types are very subtle, yet brilliant. They add a new tactical level to the game without unbalancing it. I hope the new expansion packs follow this example, and don’t fall into the trap of feeling like they have to come out with new super powers for each expansion, thus ruining the game.

So, much like you (the OP), I purchased Battltlore expecting Warhammer lite, but ended up getting so much more. I think some people get a bit to hung up on flash and the new and shiny and overlook the fact that Battlelore has a solid set of tactical rules that produces a game that can be played for an eternity without getting dull…rather than a game that comes out with more flash, gets more and more “exciting”, peaks, and then crashes in on itself and into obscurity.

So, I think the things you describe would actually have ruined the game, made it less fun to play, and killed its credibility (not to mention causing it’s early death).  Battlelore is what it is...and that's what makes it great.

All MHO.

*When I say more longevity of play, that means a lot. I played WFB almost exclusively for over 8 years every week. Thing is, after you collect and paint every single army the game looses much of its appeal. WFB is purely based on kewel powers and actual play has very little tactics (not saying “no tactics”, just very little. The main deciding aspect of the game is army composition).
 

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kookoobah said:

Battlelore would've benefitted from custom dice, custom lore decks and custom command decks for each race/faction. Each race/faction would then play differently, and it wouldn't have to be collectible and it would still work within the Battlelore system.

To anybody who's going to post something like: "Well, find another game. Battlelore isn't for you. This isn't about min/maxing cheesiness." I already know this. I just lamenting the loss of a dream. I thought Battlelore was going to be like that.

What's my point? Absolutely nothing. I just like wasting my time dreaming about what could've been.

Bear with me here, but this is the direction the game is headed, and has already taken, albeit in small steps.  Goblin armies play very differently than Dwarven armies, and presumeably both will play differently from the "Rat Nation" ;)

I am pretty sure that there will be race specific deployment decks once the figures are fleshed out for different races/factions.  Almost there with Humans (already there?), Goblins, and Dwarves - haven't begun to get there with other possible factions.  Faction specific command decks and dice are not necessary.  Have to leave for work, but quick examples:  1) Commanding a goblin foot heavy army is like having a deck full of varying degrees of foot onslaught cards - it is powerful in this right and operates very differently from that same command deck with Dwarves.   2)  The dwarven bagpipes could use a different set of dice, one with a lore and three flags upon it - but it wasn't necessary.  Extrapolate that with other units or, even broader, factions, and the same die has different functions for different units/factions.  The bonus strike and lore faces already act as "wild card" faces on the die in many instances.

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Hello,

We know that Richard work(ed) on other Arcana cards.

If we look at other C&C games, army specialization stuff are : global special rule (Activation of one more unit for Americans in Pacific theatre, Goblin rush), special troop (Alexander companions, Bagpipes) and perhaps special Arcana.

In my opinion, Command cards don't have to change. They are, with 3 sections boardgame and special dices, the backbone of C&C system.

The real problem is the total mass of rules.

More special rules means more exceptions and FAQ, more things to keep in mind.

I would prefer less new units but high tactical potential ones (more like Goblin orchestra than Dwarf Axe Swingers) for real dilemma, no new units only for have more units.

So classical weapon like pike must be used by new races (less special rules to learn) and few special tasty units.

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New Command cards and/or lore cards.

Put em in the deck and same thing with the lore cards now: 50% that you get em. I would like to have some new  skills/ability that are triggered by cards. Much like airsortie enables planes (sorry new in memoir´44 too). But lets say Goblin rage command card. Move 3 goblin and they will be bold for the time that the command is on the table. or something...

 

but the point is that add more commandcards to game, not to a another player. So for example "Events" to comman deck ? Scenario would state that weather or some other thing can happend during the battle. There might be even "end fight" cards.

ah..  JUST random ideas. ;) Sorry if I insulted some one ;)

 

PS There is only one god in BL and its MR.Borg so no heresy here ;)

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As i interpret the command cards they represent the posiblities for action that the geography of battlefield, and to some extent the command structure in the army, and the general chaos of the battle, presents to the commander. Thus the pool of command cards is the same for everyone and need not be changed for different races.

But Alistajas idea of event cards to ad to the command deck could be something to develop.

 

A command card that ends the game that is randomly put in say the third quarter of the deck, could be fun, you know you have to hurry to win, but you don´t know exactly how much time you´ve got.

Or a card that gives re-inforcements could be distributed in the same way.

This mechanism could be used in a lot of different ways to make the game more of a narrative.

 

 

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If I remember right, when the game was under Days of Wonder control-their was talk of lore cards coming out that would be used as command cards. This would add to the command card deck indirectly depending on your lore masters. I don't know if FFG plans on going this route.

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Dave, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more of those.  Already have them in Field Command, Assault, and Stolen Orders.  Also, indirectly cards like Mass Speed, Cry Havoc, etc. function to turn command cards into something bigger.

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