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Warboss Krag

Dust Miniatures Are NOT 1/48 Scale!

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Let's get something straight: Dust miniatures are NOT 1/48 scale! The measure of model scale is based on the size of the models relative to actual size, of course. With human figures, this is measured on a 6'/1.83m standard, meaning that the average human model is assumed to be a scaled 6'/1.83m tall. With this in mind, 1.83m divided by 28mm (the stated height of an average Dust miniature trooper) comes to 1/65th scale. If they were truly 1/48 scale, they'd be 38mm tall.

As a modeler of long standing, this is sort of meaningful. So please, everyone stop claiming that Dust minis are 1/48 scale…

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 Your dust mini's must have shrunk in the heat then as my SSU I have on the table are 35mm ish tall, close enough.  They are certainly taller than any of my 28mm 1/56 scale miniatures I have :?

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 This is what the 1/48 refers to is the Dust 1:48 Model Collection. The Dust 1/35 Collection is the wrong scale and certain other manufacturers have been named in other threads that are close enoughg to the Dust scale to use.

 

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 Scale arguments always get hilarious, because they vary so wildly amongst manufacturers, and true 28mm hasn't been seen in a long time. It's my understanding 28mm used to refer to the height of a baseless mini to it's eyes, assuming a 5'10" human. Now, add forehead and base and you're already over 30mm. Now mat 28mm scales are referred to as Heroic 28mm as they are closer to 35mm. Now through in 1/xx scale and it really gets silly. 

 

I think the best test one could do for this thread's argument is find an old 1/48 scale kit with standing straight soldier and/or one with an M-2 .50 cal HMG. Then compare the Ma-Deuce with one on an Allied Walker, or stand the straight up dude on a base next to Rosie, Angela, or some other standing straight DW mini. 

I'd just offer to do it myself, but I haven't had a 1/48 scale kit in my house since Junior High circa 1978-1980. 

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Scale also changes depending on if you measure from bottom of the feet to top of the head, or bottom of the feet to the eyes, both standards are used by different companies.  On top of that depending on who the sculptor is will also change the scale of the mini.

Then again people do come in more than one height.

As an example of how far off one particular miniature company is from their purported "28mm" scale.

comparison.jpg

they do claim "Heroic 28mm" which means, "eh…well just make it up".  

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Actually it would be more true to say that Dust miniatures arent 28mm (which on the plus side 28mm minis nowadys arent 28mm either). 1/48 is generally considered to be 36mm to 38mm (because most of the model companies get it wrong often too). True 28mm is some of the early Citadel and later Ral Partha minis or other companies of the time…but even they varied wildly due to manufacturer, sculpters, etc.

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 Does it REALLY matter what "scale" the Dust Tactics models are? They seem to work just fine for me as they are just the right size. Not too small (15mm as in FOW) or the 54mm that some companies make, so not too large either. They look good painted and fit well on a 4x6 game board.

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ItsUncertainWho said:

Scale also changes depending on if you measure from bottom of the feet to top of the head, or bottom of the feet to the eyes, both standards are used by different companies.  On top of that depending on who the sculptor is will also change the scale of the mini.

Then again people do come in more than one height.

As an example of how far off one particular miniature company is from their purported "28mm" scale.

comparison.jpg

they do claim "Heroic 28mm" which means, "eh…well just make it up".  

We only assume that the Guardsman is out of proportion, as we have no idea what proportions space faring humans of the 41st millenium will actually have! LOL.

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Peacekeeper_b said:

ItsUncertainWho said:

 

Scale also changes depending on if you measure from bottom of the feet to top of the head, or bottom of the feet to the eyes, both standards are used by different companies.  On top of that depending on who the sculptor is will also change the scale of the mini.

Then again people do come in more than one height.

As an example of how far off one particular miniature company is from their purported "28mm" scale.

comparison.jpg

they do claim "Heroic 28mm" which means, "eh…well just make it up".  

 

 

We only assume that the Guardsman is out of proportion, as we have no idea what proportions space faring humans of the 41st millenium will actually have! LOL.

Wow. 4th ID Soldiers are a bit small. :)

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Yeah, measured them. They're 35mm, not the touted and adverted 28mm. That would make them about 1/56 scale. I still have some 1/48 scale left from my youth (about 5-10 years before Shadowace's) and Dust minis look like midgets next to them.

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35mm would be 168cm (5'6"), which would still fit the time frame, where the average person wasn't 6' tall.

It can be harder to chack models due to posing and equipment, but all of the models I've checked fit within an appropriate range for the acknowledged 1:48 scale.  If a model is 34mm tall, but is crouched down, the actual figure would be representing someone taller crouching down.  Crouching down 50.8mm (2")  lower than full height shifts the height of a miniature in scale by just over 1mm, and most people crouching down, and with a wider stance with their legs, will be far more than 1mm shorter and still be in scale.

The only place I've ever seen people mention 28mm is on the forum, and not in anything official.  28mm isn't a scale, and there are too many ways 28mm is used for reporting model height to call it any single scale. 

If you take a range from 160cm (5'3" the average height of a Japanese soldier in WW2) up to 198.1cm (6'6" for a tall, but far from the tallest soldiers around then); you get a model range from 33-41.3mm to fit that range.  All of my models are within that range.

DUST models aren't great for scale when you look at the different sizes of what are supposed to be the same weapon on vehicles, but the infantry are all fine when considered as 1:48 and actually measured and compared to real sizes.

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 BTW, GW uses 28mm "heroic" scale. That mean big hands and heads. Im guessing it had allot to do with the detail level of models back in the day. 

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[ADMIN: Edited for content.]

I'm going off the model scale rules that a soldier is 6' tall. This has been in existence for a lot longer than modern minis games; it comes from model railroads. So, since that is the classic scale, I am going with the 6' tall standard human model.

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Warboss Krag said:

Okay, you idiots. Stop trying to rhetoric of redefining the terms of the argument; I haven't time for Republican politics. I'm going off the model scale rules that a soldier is 6' tall. This has been in existence for a lot longer than modern minis games; it comes from model railroads. So, since that is the classic scale, I am going with the 6' tall standard human model.

seriously?  The vehicles are completly fictional so who are you to say they aren't 1/48.  On the figures, the average height of an american male even today is not 6' and certainly wasn't in the 1940s:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

The general concensus is that these are close enough to 1/48 for everyone else.  If that bothers you you can take a sharpy to all your boxes, cross out the 1/48 and label them 1/56 if that makes you feel better.

 

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 Well, I just measured one of the mini's from the revised core set. I used the Hell Boys squad leader, he is about as upright as any of them get. If he was standing at attention, from the bottom of his feet to his eye line is just shy of 1.5 inches.

1.5 inches when scaled up from 1/48 = 72 inches or 6 feet.

I would put him at roughly between 5' 6" -5' 10" which is right on for the time period and 1/48 scale.

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Warboss Krag said:

 

Okay, you idiots

 

 

Really?

It is made clear that you are incorrect and you decide to reply with that?
Here is something I tell my children (and by your replies I'm guessing you are the same age as them)
"Just because you don't like the answer you are given, doesn't mean it is wrong"

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Was a bit petulant; I chalk it up to just having come off World of Tanks and having had to suffer a great deal of MMO idiocy. Still fuming a bit then…

The Dust humans still look a bit off next to my scale model 1/48 scale humans. Vehicles? Wouldn't matter so much, I guess. The point is that I'm talking a well-established modelling scale, in an industry that solidly established the 6' height human standard long, long ago. I'm quibbling about the technical scale, you see, not necessarily the actual sculpts of Dust Tactics minis, which are occasionally varied (Experiment X is a much better sculpted model than his zombie brethren). The 'argument' about historical human heights and all is a bit facile: The established scale-model scale does not care. Its parameters have already been set.

Actually, I'm guessing that the original scratch-builder creator of the line worked with 1/48 bits - I'm not sure; the only reference works I can find online are in Japanese, which is not a language I understand, much less read. That the actual soldier minis aren't as exacting as a military model (particularly those made by a Japanese company - they are brutally exact!) is, I suppose, to be expected of game models.

(Can't complain about the price difference, though. Try buying a Hasegawa 1/48 scale tank. The Dust walker sets are fantastic bargains by comparison.)

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Warboss Krag said:

Was a bit petulant; I chalk it up to just having come off World of Tanks and having had to suffer a great deal of MMO idiocy. Still fuming a bit then…

happy.gif

 

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Aside from the fact that some measure scale from the top of the head, some from the eyes, some include the base, some don't - I'm going to go out on a limb and say Tamiya, Dragon, and dozens of others know what 1/48th scale looks like, and I'll be damned if they don't match dust minis rather nicely.

BTW, 1/48th is a fairly recent scale (in popularity) and unless you are in your late teens/early twenties, you probably dont have a lot of left-over 1:48 from your childhood.  Are you sure your not looking at 1:35? - that's been around a lot longer.

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BDub said:

Aside from the fact that some measure scale from the top of the head, some from the eyes, some include the base, some don't - I'm going to go out on a limb and say Tamiya, Dragon, and dozens of others know what 1/48th scale looks like, and I'll be damned if they don't match dust minis rather nicely.

BTW, 1/48th is a fairly recent scale (in popularity) and unless you are in your late teens/early twenties, you probably dont have a lot of left-over 1:48 from your childhood.  Are you sure your not looking at 1:35? - that's been around a lot longer.

1/48 was very popular in aircraft back in the 70's and early 89's, but most of my tracks were 1/35 back then. But I'm betting Krag knows his 1/48 stuff from his 1/35. 

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