Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Vonpenguin

Is 20$ worth it for just a beta?

97 posts in this topic

Essentially the topic. I mean when Green Ronin puts out their playtests they do so for free. I'm very interested in this game but not sure I want to pay for a bunch of fluffless crunch that I'll have to re-purchase in a few months anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´m not sure about this one too. 20$ for a beta-pdf? At least now we can have a closer look at the contents of Only War. You just have to look at the preview-pdf on drivethru, wich shows us the whole table of conent! :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 No it's not worth it. It's not even sane, unless they're going to provide the final product for free after it's release. I would assume that a company would appreciate the value of having a larger set of eyes look for rules inconsistencies, without having to pay them. But charging them money, for the honour of helping to polish their final, for-profit, retail product? $20 may not actually be much money, but it's a huge slap in the face.

Just my immediate gut reaction. I won't be paying $20 to test an unfinished product, and after this, I probably won't be paying for the final book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a similar thread in General Discussion, so I'll just paste what I put there.

I share this gentleman's concerns. I was extremely fired up when I saw the open beta advert! But with a $20 tag?

That's no open beta I recognize!

Unless there is some benefit to dropping $20, for a beta no less, then I shall stay clear. Which is a great shame as I'm extremely keen on 40k, have all the other 40k RPG's and have been an active(ish) member of the DW community and provided player and gm aids free of charge and in my own time.

An open beta is a great notion, regardless. Mayhap the spelling shall improve at release gran_risa.gif

 

-Durandal
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outrageous. Absolutely outrageous.

Charing people to playtest your game is beyond inexcusable. After this I shall certainly be reconsidering my decision to buy this in final form. I think this decision needs to be reconsidered at the earliest opportunity, FFG are showing themselves to be either very greedy (and with commensurate disrespect for their fans) or they are short of cash, in which case I would prefer honesty.

I have spent a lot of money on 40k books and I am more than happy that I have done so,e ven with the issues that I have with their approach to these games. However this is disgraceful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Even Wizards isn't stupid enough to try to charge for their playtest. Pathfinder, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and many others have had free public playtests. I'd love to help FFG out, but I'm not going to pay $20 to do work for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 The only Beta rules for any game that I have seen charged for were the Battletech RPG (A time of War) from Catalyst games, but at least they only charged $10 and game a free upgrade to the final product once it was out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Major lurker here, having to speak up about this. I own roughly every 40k rpg product out thus far. When I saw this update I was so excited, as frankly though I liked the rules changes in Black Crusade I have no interest in playing as a heretic, and would much rather get a chance to be the Imperium's human shield. There is no chance I will pay 20 bucks to be part of a beta test though without some kind of benefit. Something like a 20 dollar discount on the full product when it releases on RPGnow or drivethrurpg would be acceptable. Too bad as I would have loved to test the hell out of this thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just chiming in to agree, was very excited to get the chance to help ensure the new rules were the very best and most fun they could be but paying to beta test it is insane. If it was $20 off the final version I could maybe see it, effectively pre-order and help make the game great, $25 off or something then fantastic, they get pre-orders, they get a ton of beta testers and the testers get a small thank you for investing so much effort.

This really shakes my faith in both FFGs common sense and their care for their customers.

 

Edit: Just saw this, could have sworn it wasn't there initially.

As an added benefit, anyone who downloads the Only War beta from drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com will receive a $20 discount on the pdf version of the Only War Core Rulebook when it becomes available in the fall. Simply download the beta, and when the full rulebook goes live in a few months, you’ll receive the necessary coupon code for use on drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Just received info about the beta on my mail. When I clicked the link and saw a price tag, I thought it's a scam. Sadly, it seems it's legit. Absolutely insane if you ask me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suthainn said:

Just chiming in to agree, was very excited to get the chance to help ensure the new rules were the very best and most fun they could be but paying to beta test it is insane. If it was $20 off the final version I could maybe see it, effectively pre-order and help make the game great, $25 off or something then fantastic, they get pre-orders, they get a ton of beta testers and the testers get a small thank you for investing so much effort.

This really shakes my faith in both FFGs common sense and their care for their customers.

 

Edit: Just saw this, could have sworn it wasn't there initially.

As an added benefit, anyone who downloads the Only War beta from drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com will receive a $20 discount on the pdf version of the Only War Core Rulebook when it becomes available in the fall. Simply download the beta, and when the full rulebook goes live in a few months, you’ll receive the necessary coupon code for use on drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com.

 

I don't think it was. Or at least I completely glossed over it somehow. That makes it much more acceptable. Turns it into a preorder with beta access instead of paying to playtest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all,

We understand your concerns regarding the cost of the Only War beta, and would like to clarify a few important points:

  • The Only War beta is a complete, 256-page playable version of Only War; the only difference is that it omits certain art pieces and background “flavor” that will be present in the final version. This product has already undergone extensive development, playtesting, and refinement, and we have no doubt that it’s ready to provide hours of enjoyment.
  • Of course, you should also bear in mind that Only War beta test participants have an opportunity to experience the game months before they otherwise would.
  • Finally, as an added benefit, anyone who downloads the Only War beta from drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com will receive a $20 discount on the pdf version of the Only War Core Rulebook when it becomes available in the fall. Simply download the beta, and when the electronic version of the full rulebook goes live in a few months, you’ll receive the necessary coupon code for use on drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com.

As always, thanks for your support!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I have to say, charging for a beta is pretty misleading. If this exists to allow people to help refine the final product, it shouldn't be charged for. If the purpose is instead an early, barebones release, then this cost is fine.

 

If it is actually a beta, then the idea of charging for it (and limiting the amount of people who can include input) is pretty nonsensical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ffgMark said:

Hello all,

We understand your concerns regarding the cost of the Only War beta, and would like to clarify a few important points:

  • The Only War beta is a complete, 256-page playable version of Only War; the only difference is that it omits certain art pieces and background “flavor” that will be present in the final version. This product has already undergone extensive development, playtesting, and refinement, and we have no doubt that it’s ready to provide hours of enjoyment.
  • Of course, you should also bear in mind that Only War beta test participants have an opportunity to experience the game months before they otherwise would.
  • Finally, as an added benefit, anyone who downloads the Only War beta from drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com will receive a $20 discount on the pdf version of the Only War Core Rulebook when it becomes available in the fall. Simply download the beta, and when the electronic version of the full rulebook goes live in a few months, you’ll receive the necessary coupon code for use on drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com.

As always, thanks for your support!

You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer. I don't want the pdf version. What use is it to me? PDF's are awkward enough as it is when they try to emulate weighty full colour print books, but if you don't have a laptop/tablet (and I don't) they are worse than useless. Consequenlty I'm left with only the print version. That's quite enough for me, I was happy enough to buy that, but paying into this beta so I can subsidise people that want pdf products (which are already absurdly priced, as if they were equivalent to the print copies - that's a whole other discussion!)? No thanks. Please rethink this, it's an absolutely awful scheme, and you can be sure - not that i condone this i stress - this will see it's way onto torrents before you wake up tomorrow. You are doing yourself no favours here at all sir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If i was a bricks and mortar retailer i'd be very cheesed off at this. The only way you benefit from this (and you don't really benefit since you are paying no less than you would if you just rbought th epdf anyway) is if you buy digitally, bypassing the traditional retail sector of our hobby. The sort of people that we presumably want to keep in business where we can. What a kick in the nuts. Was this even considered when you conceived this daft plan ffg?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I have to agree with the prediction stated above regarding torrents. Regardless this coupon for the pdf version has now gotten me on board (though I swear it was not there earlier). I am one of the few who buy the physical and digital copies of a lot of these books, so having a preorder of sorts on the digital copy in return for beta testing is fine by me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

signoftheserpent said:

You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer. I don't want the pdf version. What use is it to me? PDF's are awkward enough as it is when they try to emulate weighty full colour print books, but if you don't have a laptop/tablet (and I don't) they are worse than useless. Consequenlty I'm left with only the print version. That's quite enough for me, I was happy enough to buy that, but paying into this beta so I can subsidise people that want pdf products (which are already absurdly priced, as if they were equivalent to the print copies - that's a whole other discussion!)? No thanks. Please rethink this, it's an absolutely awful scheme, and you can be sure - not that i condone this i stress - this will see it's way onto torrents before you wake up tomorrow. You are doing yourself no favours here at all sir.

If you don't like PDF's, don't buy it. Wait for the print release, just like you would normally, then you can start ranting about it in a couple of months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to get stupid as all hell, now did it?

 

Vonpenguin said:

Essentially the topic. I mean when Green Ronin puts out their playtests they do so for free. I'm very interested in this game but not sure I want to pay for a bunch of fluffless crunch that I'll have to re-purchase in a few months anyway.

Temudschin said:

I´m not sure about this one too. 20$ for a beta-pdf? At least now we can have a closer look at the contents of Only War. You just have to look at the preview-pdf on drivethru, wich shows us the whole table of conent! :)

Alright, so everyone here who is hesitant…

Tell me, what were you planning to do after you bought the REAL, finished edition .pdf, and came to the conclusion you didn't like the game (after spending more than $20)? And if god-emperor forgbid that you actually like it, you get the $20 paid for the beta copy off the .pdf of the full copy… so again, what's there to complain about?

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure GR doesn't beta-test the core-books to entirely new games, for free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Wizards made plenty of money off of D&D 3.5, and they had an OGL and an online SRD. Paizo puts all content up for Pathfinder online for free, and they make plenty of money.

 

Of course, those are released products. I don't understand the idea of charging for playtesting and proof-reading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

signoftheserpent said:

You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer.

 

Then will you SHUT UP and leave the **** forums already? I'm sick of hearing nothing but bitching and moaning from you and too many other posters.

It's enough to make me quit the **** games.


Wizards made plenty of money off of D&D 3.5, and they had an OGL and an online SRD. Paizo puts all content up for Pathfinder online for free, and they make plenty of money.

 

 

Of course, those are released products. I don't understand the idea of charging for playtesting and proof-reading.

A) I don't see a lot of free stuff there for Pathfinder, and what little I do see is quite old content. And B) The important bit now, Wizards is owned by Hasbro, who are probably richest toy-company on the planet. They can shovel all the money they want in to Wizards, if it gets shakey. They can take a loss any day of the week on D&D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blood Pact said:

signoftheserpent said:

You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer.

 

Then will you SHUT UP and leave the **** forums already? I'm sick of hearing nothing but bitching and moaning from you and too many other posters.

It's enough to make me quit the **** games.

 

"4. Treat everyone (users or not) with respect, while enjoying the freedom to disagree with their ideas."

 

Come along, Blood Pact. People are free to dislike business practices. FFG is generally good with feedback; they'll listen and decide for themselves. If you don't want to hear complaints, maybe you should consider leaving the complaint thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plushy said:

… I don't understand the idea of charging for playtesting and proof-reading.

So they can get more eyes on the product and get changes made before the print run, thus reducing the amount of whining and moaning that goes on about proof reading and editing on these forums.

Why charge?

My guess, FFG licenses the content from GW. When GW allows their content to be free (never), the beta process might be free. Until then the hard core will buy it, proofread the hell out of it and catch stuff FFG and their people missed. Changes can get made before the print run and all those early adopters get a $20 discount on the final PDF, everyone else gets a better printed book.  It is really a win/win for everyone, despite what some may think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since when was this was "complaint thread"?

I foolishly assumed that I'd find rational discourse and and conversation when I decided to come here, instead every second post is right back to the same ol' mantra of bull that I see too much.

And why? Because someone knee-jerked way too fast cause they didn't see the thing about the $20 coming off the final product (yeah yeah, it wasn't there… or could it be that the first group complaining cause they didn't read thoroughly enough. Jumping right to outrage instead of reading all three paragraphs on the page? I'm sorry, but I always bet on human stupidity…

And then the further complaints, mostly from Signs, who has produced such gems as complainign about why Dark Eldar are only just getting rules now, as opposed to years ago (…yeah, that linear progression of time is a real *****, ain't it?). And couldn't just accept that they hadn't written them yet, back then.

So ya know what, I feel absolutely justified about my complaints… afterall, this is a complaint thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

ItsUncertainWho said:

 

signoftheserpent said:

 

You won't be getting my support. You've lost a customer. I don't want the pdf version. What use is it to me? PDF's are awkward enough as it is when they try to emulate weighty full colour print books, but if you don't have a laptop/tablet (and I don't) they are worse than useless. Consequenlty I'm left with only the print version. That's quite enough for me, I was happy enough to buy that, but paying into this beta so I can subsidise people that want pdf products (which are already absurdly priced, as if they were equivalent to the print copies - that's a whole other discussion!)? No thanks. Please rethink this, it's an absolutely awful scheme, and you can be sure - not that i condone this i stress - this will see it's way onto torrents before you wake up tomorrow. You are doing yourself no favours here at all sir.

 

 

If you don't like PDF's, don't buy it. Wait for the print release, just like you would normally, then you can start ranting about it in a couple of months.

 

You have missed the point.

 

I also didn't say that I disliked pdfs. What I don't like are 300 page pdf's that are produced to be an exact copy of the print version. This is not good product design; a pdf has a specific format and functions uniquely. A book is easy to leaf through, a pdf requires systme resources and an optimised layout. It doesn't need huge amounts of artwork that slow it down. Unfortunately that is my experience of pdf's.

Aside from that I prefer print books for reasons already stated. Not only that but I like to support the lifeblood of the hobby by using traditional shops. Without them FFG would soon find life very difficult. Could it survive by digital sales alone?

As I won't benefit from this beta becuase I can't get a rebate on a book, what exactly am I being charged for if I choose to help FFG playtest their product? This is just crazy. Is it fair that I should subisidise your pdf copy? I don't think so. I have no problem with you buying a pdf,  that's entirely your choice and good luck to you. But this is just something that FFG came up with at the eleventh hour, pun intended, when they got wind that we weren't particularly thrilled to have top pay them to playtest their game!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0