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Elurindel

Chaos Marine wants to pick up a fallen Grey Knight's weapon

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In a climactic fight that ended a story arc, my party brought down a Grey Knight Terminator. Now the Chaos Marine wants to pick up his weapon. I'm wondering, should he suffer in any way for touching a weapon so obviously and potently holy? He has 35 CP, so I figure it should hurt him somehow.

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Actually unless they have changed lore it is not necessarily going to hurt him if he picks it up.  A nemesis force weapon is psychically attuned to the grey knight so the weapon won't work for the chaos marine.  However without the psychic powers of the grey knight to power the weapon, a nemesis force weapon may be harmless.  The question I wonder is can a nemesis force weapon be corrupted in a way so that it retains some of its original properties.

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 I would say that if the character in question is a sorcerer, that a ritual could be cooked up to corrupt the Nemesis weapon to serve Chaos. Make it a Best-quality force weapon with the Nemesis force weapon rules from the Daemon Hunter book, and call it a day.

I'd also say that the ritual should probably convey the Enemy (Grey Knights) talent as well.

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There is some bit in the Daemon Weapon section that is about corrupting a Sancified weapon [Nemesis weapons are sanctified] and getting a bonus for it. You could always take that route and make it into a Daemon Weapon.

Robin Graves and Duphrane like this

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DJSunhammer said:

There is some bit in the Daemon Weapon section that is about corrupting a Sancified weapon [Nemesis weapons are sanctified] and getting a bonus for it. You could always take that route and make it into a Daemon Weapon.

Indeed. This is probably the best use for a sanctified weapon in Black Crusade - for the satisfaction of defiling a weapon of the corpse-Emperor's lackeys, and because a sanctified weapon makes a more effective prison for its new daemonic inhabitant.

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Make it a high quality force weapon that requires a ritual to attune to. If a non-psyker wants to use it, perhaps require some artificing to make it into a high quality power weapon. I also really like the idea of corrupting it. That is very much what Black Crusade is all about.

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Let us not forget that a Nemesis force weapon is stll a fearsome and lethally well crafted weapon even if you subtract the extra hit of psychic might from a grey knight.

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Absolutely. Capturing such a  weapon from the hated Grey Knights and corrupting it to his own purposes is a superlative tribute to chaos and a sublime trophy.

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I like this idea, but I have this nagging voice in the back of my head;

Why would a Grey Knight Nemesis weapon not also be gene-coded?

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I like this idea, but I have this nagging voice in the back of my head;

Why would a Grey Knight Nemesis weapon not also be gene-coded?

It might be gene-coded but only to affect its power field quality. And everything is always possible to break when you have will and possibly daemon in mind who you want to bound in said weapon to desecrate it ^_^

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I like this idea, but I have this nagging voice in the back of my head;

Why would a Grey Knight Nemesis weapon not also be gene-coded?

It might be gene-coded but only to affect its power field quality. And everything is always possible to break when you have will and possibly daemon in mind who you want to bound in said weapon to desecrate it ^_^

 

I was thinking that it would affect the Force quality first and foremost, but more importantly, explode into a nice little mushroom cloud when someone tried to defile it. :|

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I like this idea, but I have this nagging voice in the back of my head;

Why would a Grey Knight Nemesis weapon not also be gene-coded?

It might be gene-coded but only to affect its power field quality. And everything is always possible to break when you have will and possibly daemon in mind who you want to bound in said weapon to desecrate it ^_^

 

I was thinking that it would affect the Force quality first and foremost, but more importantly, explode into a nice little mushroom cloud when someone tried to defile it. :|

 

Well sometimes force weapons are said to be created to specific Psyker by making it work more in harmony with his psychic signature, so Force and Powerfield might not work at all. But like your description of similarity to Judge Dredd Lawgiver pistol, self-destruction when wielded by anyone else than current user.

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BTW am I the only one that's noticed that the Grey Knight's nemesis force sword seems to have been designed using the standard sword stats (+ some Pen for power field) rather than the force sword stats in the book? It actually does worse damage than the sword in the armoury.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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Force weapons in general are (as far as I read) based off of the stats of a primitive weapon with the mono upgrade first and foremost.  They also occasionally lose stats in translation- compare the Force Scythe in BC with the just-plain Scythe, and you'll note that the force scythe loses felling.

 

I houserule the losing-attributes bit, but the rest makes sense.  The bulk of the power of a force weapon comes from the wielder's Psy Rating, and a powerful psyker using a force sword dwarfs a power sword.

 

Anyway's, if I read the Grey Knight entry right, the Nemesis sword there deals 1d10R pen 6 as a base weapon, plus 11 damage from strength and plus 2 damage and pen from psy rating.  That looks better than a standard sword with mono upgrade (d10R pen 2), but worse than the 1d10R+1 pen 2 +10 to WS best quality sword with mono that I would expect it to be based on.  The Nemesis given seems to trade the +1 damage for a +4 pen.  I guess I can see that.  No mention of a +10 to WS tests for it being a best quality weapon though.

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Force weapons in general are (as far as I read) based off of the stats of a primitive weapon with the mono upgrade

 

None of the listed ones in the armoury are.

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Huh.  Now that I look back there, I wonder what I was smoking.

 

The force scythe is a standard scythe, after losing primitive and felling and gaining force.

 

The force sword gets a +2 to damage as well as a +2 to pen, which would come from the mono-upgrade.

 

Force staff just gets a psy focus.

 

Yeah, there's no pattern, and the GK nemesis sword is a downgrade.  Woot.

 

Edit: clarifications.  Also- wow, force weapons have some mediocre base stats.  I guess I can't expect them to shine until PR 6+ or so, but still. Give me a thunder hammer or power sword... or a hellblade.

 

Hellblades solve problems- if you can keep one from discorporating with its bloodletter.

Edited by Annaamarth

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Huh.  Now that I look back there, I wonder what I was smoking.

 

The force scythe is a standard scythe, after losing primitive and felling and gaining force.

 

The force sword gets a +2 to damage as well as a +2 to pen, which would come from the mono-upgrade.

 

Force staff just gets a psy focus.

 

Yeah, there's no pattern, and the GK nemesis sword is a downgrade.  Woot.

 

Edit: clarifications.  Also- wow, force weapons have some mediocre base stats.  I guess I can't expect them to shine until PR 6+ or so, but still. Give me a thunder hammer or power sword... or a hellblade.

 

Hellblades solve problems- if you can keep one from discorporating with its bloodletter.

 

I think the Nemesis weapon is less a downgrade than that somebody gave it the wrong stats (I don't think they even gave it Power Field). I should look up what it has in Daemonhunter.

 

EDIT: Yup. The Daemonhunter Nemesis Force Sword is 1d10+2 Pen 2 (just like the FS in the BC armoury) + Power Field + Sanctified. So assuming the GK in the enemies section is wielding this thing, it should do 1d10+15 Pen 4 (more damage, lower Pen), including his Psy Rating.

 

It's identical to the BC armoury sword except that it has Power Field and Sanctified. And it has a frilly thing that adds to Force Field ratings.

 

Also, the GK in the BC book doesn't seem to have the Aegis represented anywhere, although the text mentions it. What it SHOULD do, going by the DH to BC conversion rules, is give Focus Poiwer Tests targeting the Grey Knight a -10 penalty.

 

EDIT: the strength of force weapons is in the, um, Force quality. That can churn out obscene damage and can't be compared with a power sword. A PR2 sorcerer with WP 45, on Fettered, can churn out an extra 5d10 damage.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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Force weapons never get power field, with a few possible exceptions.  They get Force instead.  It is worth noting that Power Fields can't break Force weapons, so it's k.  I guess Nemesis weapons are weird.

 

Re: Force damage- that requires an opposed willpower test, so against bob the mook I think it can go quite a bit higher... and against a Greater Daemon it's probably going to do squat diddly.  Since bob the mook was going to die messily anyway, I don't see that as being terribly great.

 

Don't get me wrong, a PR 5 psyker with a WP of 50 could easily get a bonus 2 or 3 d10 against a bloodthirster, but he could just as easily get ****-all.  Opposed tests have a BIG standard of deviation.

 

Just to compare.  Let's say bob the mook has a WP of 35, and you have a PR3 WP 45 force weapon-wielding bamf.  He rolls a 100, you roll and 01.  You win by 44 (54, after including the effective psy rating of 2 for the fettered focus), for 5 DoS (6 DoS), he fails by 65 for 7 DoF, for a difference of 12 (13) degrees.  That's a bonus 6d10 damage, cos you got 6 DoS, innit?  Am I doing it wrong?  Anyway, bob the mook asplode.

 

Vice versa, if you're facing down a Lord of Change with a Willpower of 80+, his own pool of infamy points, and unnatural Willpower of 12 (not unreasonable for a named Feathered Lord and major opponent, I think), you're never going to trigger force, ever- and that's the guy you really need the damage against.

 

personally, I like the +PR to damage and pen part better.  It's reliable and nasty, and that combination can be hard to find in the Vortex.

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start quote -- formatting screwed

 


Force weapons never get power field, with a few possible exceptions.  They get Force instead.  It is worth noting that Power Fields can't break Force weapons, so it's k.  I guess Nemesis weapons are weird.

 

Re: Force damage- that requires an opposed willpower test, so against bob the mook I think it can go quite a bit higher... and against a Greater Daemon it's probably going to do squat diddly.  Since bob the mook was going to die messily anyway, I don't see that as being terribly great.

 

Don't get me wrong, a PR 5 psyker with a WP of 50 could easily get a bonus 2 or 3 d10 against a bloodthirster, but he could just as easily get ****-all.  Opposed tests have a BIG standard of deviation.

 

Just to compare.  Let's say bob the mook has a WP of 35, and you have a PR3 WP 45 force weapon-wielding bamf.  He rolls a 100, you roll and 01.  You win by 44 (54, after including the effective psy rating of 2 for the fettered focus), for 5 DoS (6 DoS), he fails by 65 for 7 DoF, for a difference of 12 (13) degrees.  That's a bonus 6d10 damage, cos you got 6 DoS, innit?  Am I doing it wrong?  Anyway, bob the mook asplode.

 

Vice versa, if you're facing down a Lord of Change with a Willpower of 80+, his own pool of infamy points, and unnatural Willpower of 12 (not unreasonable for a named Feathered Lord and major opponent, I think), you're never going to trigger force, ever- and that's the guy you really need the damage against.

 

personally, I like the +PR to damage and pen part better.  It's reliable and nasty, and that combination can be hard to find in the Vortex.

 

end quote

 

Nemesis weapons are specifically stated to have power fields.

 

Anybody is supposed to die in combat with a Greater Daemon... :)

 

Plus, I mean, you're choosing a LORD OF CHANGE, a bastion of psychic might, as the comparison. :)

 

Not just that, but a Lord of Change with Unnatural Willpower. :)

 

Try comparing it to a Tomb Stalker instead.

 

WAIT. You don't factor one party's Degrees of Failure into account when determining Degrees of Success of the opposed side.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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