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How to build a balanced SSU faction, to match Axis and Allies incuided in the Revised Box?

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 Hi Everybody,

I'm a new gamer, and I was wondering what to buy to built a balanced SSU faction, to face the Axis and Allies forces included in the Revised DUST Tactics box (we'd like to play in three…).

My hypothesis is:

- OPERATION ZVEROGRAD (which bring a hero and a 'Mech');

- an HELICOPTER;

- two or three squads (Two? Three? And what exactly?).

 

Any suggestion?

Thank you in advance

 

Paolo

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Actually you need to wait for some more stuff.  The Zverograd walker is a "Rare" one, so you can only have one.  For the rest of the SSU forces, about half are missing, plus there aren't any IA3 squads available yet.  I'd wait and I'm hoping that FFG ends up releasing a SSU "starter" box, but probably not for a while.

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 If the allied player is only playing with Revised set units they will have no Anti-air so Don't bring a chopper.
But this should be a decent match to the Rev. Core set units. Also not all these units are out so you'll have t wait or just use your best judgement.
36 - Grand'Ma
18 - Koshka
19 - Frontoviki
28 - Fakyeli
?? - Ohotniki

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Why should he wait? A revised set axis or allied force will only have a single light walker anyway.

If you want a similar force, I'd go with:

- Operation Zverograd (walker and hero)

- Fakyeli (close combat fast squad that can deal with walkers)

- Frontoviki (good anti-infantry squad)

Then it gets a bit tricky. You should get a 3rd squad, but your options are the Medvedi command squad, which would be a bit unfair to the opponent or the Chinese Volunteers. I'd go with the Chinese Volunteers, even if you don't use the chopper because you won't have enough AP. You could alternate between using the chopper and using the Babushka walker, putting Koshka instead with the Fakyeli (should be quite deadly).

EDIT: Ture, if you're fighting an allied revised set army, it would be unfair to take a chopper. Against the axis it would be all right, with Lara and the Flaks being among the best units in the game to bring down aicraft. Ohotniki isn't out yet, or it would be a good option for the 3rd squad. Either it or a Commissar squad.

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No need to get snarky. My post above was a reply to Algesan's post, not yours. You had not posted yet by the time I started to reply. I was referring to the fact that you don't have to wait for all the units to build a force equivalent to the Revised Set.

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Mainly wait and see what come out next rather than trying to pull together a SSU fighting force out of what is available right now.  I'm fairly sure we will be seeing all of the proposed SSU stuff in the next few months.  Although I hadn't looked at the cards to notice that the Revised Core (Allies at least) have little to no AA capability.

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In my humble opinion the only worth while force given the current released SSU units are as follows. Field as many choppers filled with assault squads as your point limit allows.
Then simply rush your enemy. The assault squads can deal with walker and any other heavy hitters. The the choppers can mop up any infantry.

I would not waste my money or points on command squads. They are far to twitchy and often don't come through when you need then the most. They accounted for may only loss of the northwest regional tournament.

The Chinese are cannon fodder.  The infantry have short range and no ability to kill walkers. Maybe with a commissar they might be worth something, but rite now any Axis or Allied force would chew them up and spit them out.

The hero walker may be some thing with other walkers to support it, but rite it's not going to win the fight all by itself.

Don't get me wrong I own an Axis and Allied force. I intend to field the SSU as well, but I will wait until more units are released so I can field an effective force.

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Panzer soldier said:

In my humble opinion the only worth while force given the current released SSU units are as follows. Field as many choppers filled with assault squads as your point limit allows.
Then simply rush your enemy. The assault squads can deal with walker and any other heavy hitters. The the choppers can mop up any infantry.

I would not waste my money or points on command squads. They are far to twitchy and often don't come through when you need then the most. They accounted for may only loss of the northwest regional tournament.

The Chinese are cannon fodder.  The infantry have short range and no ability to kill walkers. Maybe with a commissar they might be worth something, but rite now any Axis or Allied force would chew them up and spit them out.

The hero walker may be some thing with other walkers to support it, but rite it's not going to win the fight all by itself.

Don't get me wrong I own an Axis and Allied force. I intend to field the SSU as well, but I will wait until more units are released so I can field an effective force.

Agreed.  I'm going to get a SSU force also, but I'm still playing a little catch up on my Axis and Allies after my slight (well, maybe not so slight) detour into the Newcrons.  As well as trying to polish up my Black Templars for NOVA in September.  So, the SSU forces can wait until FFG actually fleshes them out some more.  I mean, there isn't even a core set's worth of stuff yet.

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Personally I'm waiting for two thing: stats for walkers and choppers as they will make up my mind if I go into SSU dropping my Axis.

I'd like to field one of two types of SSU armies - air cavalry and walker-stompa but air-cavalry sounds cheesier to my (for 300pts games: 2x anti tank chopper + 2x anti infantry chopper + either command squad or hero with legendary tactician + as many cheerleader as I can fit :D)

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daniello_s said:

Personally I'm waiting for two thing: stats for walkers and choppers as they will make up my mind if I go into SSU dropping my Axis.

I'd like to field one of two types of SSU armies - air cavalry and walker-stompa but air-cavalry sounds cheesier to my (for 300pts games: 2x anti tank chopper + 2x anti infantry chopper + either command squad or hero with legendary tactician + as many cheerleader as I can fit :D)

 I agree all walker armies have be tournament winners in my area. The SSU seem to have tough but short ranged walkers. I think an air cavalry unit would be a devastating combination.


This will force the Axis and Allied players to field allot of antiaircraft weapons which will make them vulnerable to walkers.


I have lost faith in command squads though. The abilities are nice, but a 1in 3 chance is to low to make them dependable.
 

I am not sure what you mean by cheerleaders, infantry?

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Cheerleaders are cheap, expandable infantry units like SSU observers or Chinese guys whose role is to provide activations.

The whole idea is to use cheerleaders first forcing opponent to move all his key units before you activate you deadly air cavalry to eliminate as much enemy as possible.

Yakov (I think this is the right guy I'm taking about) will help you to win initiative nect round so you can finish up with you chopers whatever has left last round or to move them out of counter-attack.

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 I see in that case my Axis army contains five cheerleader. They are great for enshuring my Stormkonig gets on the board safe and sound.

Some consider this cheating, but I say this is just smart strategy. Besides my cheerleaders call in artillery and that hurts.

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Panzer soldier said:

 I see in that case my Axis army contains five cheerleader. They are great for enshuring my Stormkonig gets on the board safe and sound.

Some consider this cheating, but I say this is just smart strategy. Besides my cheerleaders call in artillery and that hurts.

Not to be insulting, but not calling it cheating is like atheletes saying blood-doping isn't a performance enhancing drug.  You are not winning with your strategy or tactics, but through a manipulation of the rules.  I enjoy tactics because of the unrestricted build lists, and quasi-legal manuvers like this are the reason so many game have to have force building rules.  It also create an unbalanced field for those who have limited funds, and those who can spend $60+ on observers (and sniper they don't even use?) just so they can out-activated their opponent.  Try out thinking your opponent.  That is what these kind of games are supposed to be won or lost on.

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Panzer soldier said:

Some consider this cheating, but I say this is just smart strategy.

It's certainly not cheating, since nothing in the rules prevents it.

It's just a somewhat obnoxious anti-gaming strategy. Nothing very smart about it.

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 There's far, far more abusive ways to take advantage of the unrestricted force selection than the above. Until there's A3 aircraft, 18 squads of Recon Grenadiers springs to mind in a 300pt game

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Loophole Master said:

Panzer soldier said:

Some consider this cheating, but I say this is just smart strategy.

 

It's certainly not cheating, since nothing in the rules prevents it.

It's just a somewhat obnoxious anti-gaming strategy. Nothing very smart about it.

 

Ditto the aboves.

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Loophole Master said:

Panzer soldier said:

Some consider this cheating, but I say this is just smart strategy.

 

It's certainly not cheating, since nothing in the rules prevents it.

It's just a somewhat obnoxious anti-gaming strategy. Nothing very smart about it.

Well now who is snarky?


A smart commander uses all of the resources he has available to him. Obviously the strategy is effective or it wouldn't have you all so bothered. 
Wars are not won by the nice, and you can't cry fowl in a fire fight if you are out gunned. 
We found the use of I.E.D.'s by the enemy in Iraq to cowardly. I would imagine that the Germans bypassing the Mashinal line, was rather inconvenient for the French. The list of history goes on and on.
You should look at this strategy as just a challenge to be overcome.
As you said,  “It's certainly not cheating, since nothing in the rules prevents it.”
So be a truly great commander and find a way to deal with it.

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Well, let me put it this way: I used to play 300 pts games on 4x3 square.

My buddy decided to use this kind of list:

- NCO squad

- 4x Grim Reapers

- 1x Tankbusters

- 2x Foxtrot

- 2x Blackhawk

- 2x Steel Rain

That will give him 12 activations with infantry hard hitters (Reapers) and nice anti-tank stuff (Steel Rains and Tankbusters).

Is this list a 'cheating' list? I think is not although lacks of finesy.

 

 

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I wouldn't call the use of "cheerleaders" cheating, but it can be bad sportsmanship. After playing 40k for years, I learned that it is much more enjoyable to play with those who don't use rules-lawyership to insure victory. You're free to do as you want, but I find that playing with or against an opponent who uses actual skill on the board rather than cheap tricks is fun, while playing with a player uses said tricks is an exercise in frustration.

The reason games like 40k have limits on units in their army lists is because GW understands that other gamers don't like "cheesy" lists. Years of tournaments and experience have allowed GW to hone down the cheesy elements of their games, after having expanded the base audience of the game itself. DT is young, and needs to grow its base, so not placing any hard limits on units allows for a more open style of game. Tourney-busting army lists may be awesome for the one who uses it, but causes more damage to the game as a whole- as young/new gamers get frustrated and exasperated never winning against said lists and quit the game. This hurts everyone in the end. I would advise those that do use some of these lists to be… aware of this fact.

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Ikka said:

Tourney-busting army lists may be awesome for the one who uses it, but causes more damage to the game as a whole- as young/new gamers get frustrated and exasperated never winning against said lists and quit the game. This hurts everyone in the end. I would advise those that do use some of these lists to be… aware of this fact.

 

The problem is, GW can't write balanced codicies. They often have poor internal balance and downright bad unit selections. Don't blame the tournament player, they will of course take the strongest options available to them. Blame the people who write the rules.

Dust Tactics is in a funny position at the moment. If FFG/Dust Studio want it to be played at tournaments, they will have to restrict unit selections. What to one person may be entirely fair, may to another person be 'broken'.Having someone a Tournament Organiser enforce what they feel to be fair, often ends up being just as bad - just look at some of the awful comp tournaments around the world.

Shouldn't be too hard to sort out - leave the main rules as restriction free, and update the Tournament FAQ to enforce unit restrictions.

Re Cheerleaders - I think that's perfectly fine tactic. Bigger problems occur when a playing fields units of just one type - a SSU player fielding just Helicopters for example, negating a large proportion of their opponents forces.
 

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