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You've Got Questions? I've Got Answers - Straight From Damon Stone

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Q:

Hi Damon,
I have got a question concerning the story attachements like Tear in time in case of winning a story they are attached to.
It reads:
Attachment. Environment.
Attach to a story card.
Response: After you win an (A) struggle at the attached story, either draw 2 cards or return a card from your discard pile to the top of your deck.
 
So how exactly do they work with their response?
Referring to the rulebook a response can not be used until all stories have been resolved.
We had the following situatiuon:
Tear in Time was attached to a story with 3 successs tokens.
A player has commited characters to it, won arcane, investigation and succeeded with skill.
So the condition for Tear in Time was met. Arcane was won. (But could not be used, because there were other stories waiting for resolving.)
But the story, where Tear in Time was attached to, was won.
So the Attachement (Tear in time) was discarded immediately. 
Is this correct?
And because responses can only be triggered after all stories have been resolved, Tear in Time's Response could not be used because the card has already left play if it's response could be used.
Is this correct, too?
 
Or is the Response of Tear in Time a already triggered effect , at the moment where the arcane struggle was won during the story resolving, and it is somewhere between time and space and will trigger after the other stories have resolved?
And it will trigger though the attachement isn't in play anymore? Would it trigger from the discard pile in this case?
Or is the attachement not in the discard pile until it's response has been used in the response window after the stories resolving green-box?
And another question: could Tear in Time recycle itself from the discard pile?
 
 
A:

Environment attachments only can be triggered while the attached story is out. If that story is run before the effect on the environment attachment can be triggered the attachment is immediately discarded when the story leaves play. Some of these attachments are passives so would constantly be active, other that were disrupts or forced response would still be able to trigger in most cases before the story left play, but responses would only be able to trigger on stories that were not won that turn.  

Damon Stone
LCG Developer

Fantasy Flight Games
1995 West County Road B2
Roseville, MN 55113
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Hello Damon,
I've got a question concening Red Tape, which reads "Cancel the first effect triggered by each opponent each turn. "
 
So if my opponent already triggered an effect during my turn (Refresh Phase), what happens if I play Red Tape during my Operations Phase?
- Is the effect canceled retrospective?
 
And which is the first effect Red Tape is referring to?
Will it cancel my opponents "next" effect, first effect after Red Tape enters play?
Even if this effect in  fact would be my opponents second effect in sum during the turn?
 
Or is the FIRST effect absolut?
So if Red Tape enters play after the first opponents effect has already been triggered, it will cancel nothing for the rest of the turn?
 
 
A:

 

There can only ever be one first triggered effect and that is the only effect that it cancels. IF an effect was triggered previously to Red Tape being played, it was still the first triggered effect of that turn.

Damon Stone
LCG Developer

Fantasy Flight Games
1995 West County Road B2
Roseville, MN 55113

 

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Or is the FIRST effect absolute?

So if Red Tape enters play after the first opponents effect has already been triggered, it will cancel nothing for the rest of the turn?

 

Correct.  The first effect already happened, Red Tape was not in play when it happened so it could not cancel it.  Any effects that happen later in the turn after Red Tape has been put into play are not the first, so Red Tape will not cancel them either.  Basically, the card works exactly as it is worded.

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The Gug situation seems to have generated a lot of disagreement both in my local meta and on cardgamedb.  From Damon's response concerning Laboring Gug above, he says, "There is no interaction at all if Laboring Gug cannot survive the wounds from Short Fuse. Cards can only respond "on their way out" if the card specifically states in a self-referential manner, that it triggers if the card leaves play."  However, the FAQ states, "they [self referential responses] must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play."   The FAQ seems to be saying the player controlling the Gug would get a response as the effect (a wound), even though it destroys the character, caused them to leave play.  So, in simple language, the Gug takes the final wound which will destroy it.  Does it get it's response or not?  Thanks!

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The Gug situation seems to have generated a lot of disagreement both in my local meta and on cardgamedb.  From Damon's response concerning Laboring Gug above, he says, "There is no interaction at all if Laboring Gug cannot survive the wounds from Short Fuse. Cards can only respond "on their way out" if the card specifically states in a self-referential manner, that it triggers if the card leaves play."  However, the FAQ states, "they [self referential responses] must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play."   The FAQ seems to be saying the player controlling the Gug would get a response as the effect (a wound), even though it destroys the character, caused them to leave play.  So, in simple language, the Gug takes the final wound which will destroy it.  Does it get it's response or not?  Thanks!

Hi Nomadic,

The official answer hasn't changed.  Laboring Gug cannot respond to the final wound that destroys him because is no longer in play when the window opens to trigger responses.

 

The exception referred to in the FAQ only applies to cards that explicitly reference changing to an out of play state (e.g. "Response: After Budding Young leaves play...") or to an out of play area (e.g. "Response: After Professor Nathaniel Peaslee enters your discard pile..."), or that reference a specific leave-play effect (e.g. "Forced Response: After College Prospect is destroyed...").

 

Responses on Cards Leaving Play

Some cards respond to themselves leaving play, self-referentially, or to effects that may cause that card to leave play. Such responses can be triggered as if the card were still in play. Note that only Response or Forced Response effects can be triggered in this manner, and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play. Cards may not take “one last action” before they leave play.

For example the Response effect on Professor Nathaniel Peaslee, Scholar of the Arcane (Core Set F24) can be triggered in response to him entering the discard pile from play.

See also subsequent clarification here.

Edited by jasonconlon

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I have a question about Obsessive Detective and Obsessive Inmate.

The FAQ reads:

Obsessive Inmate does stay committed to the story during the opponent’s turn.
However, the story he is committed to will not resolve during his opponent’s turn, unless the opponent commits at least one character to the story.
Obsessive Inmate can be uncommitted from a story by means of card effects.
 
Does this mean that the investigation struggles don't occur on my opponents turn despite there being a committed character? My group has always played that they do, because that made sense to us, but after reading this FAQ I'm suddenly not so sure.

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I have a question...

Hi Panzerbjrn,

This particular thread isn't for asking questions... Rather, it's for recording questions that were previously asked, that have already received official answers from FFG (i.e. from Damon Stone).

If you're after unofficial answers from the community you can just create a separate topic for it in this forum; however I see you've since found that you can do the same on CardGameDB - which also gets more traffic and generally quicker responses.

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I have a question...

Hi Panzerbjrn,

This particular thread isn't for asking questions... Rather, it's for recording questions that were previously asked, that have already received official answers from FFG (i.e. from Damon Stone).

If you're after unofficial answers from the community you can just create a separate topic for it in this forum; however I see you've since found that you can do the same on CardGameDB - which also gets more traffic and generally quicker responses.

 

 

I don't really get the distinction...

Where have these questions been asked then? And I was after something 'official'...

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Where have these questions been asked then? And I was after something 'official'...

FFG almost never respond to comments or questions in these forums. Instead, you need to contact them directly using the 'Contact' link on their page, which eventually leads you to the Rules Question Page.

Once you've received an official response, please post the question and answer here to help out others too.

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1) Does Bokrug's forced response also trigger upon receiving his final wound (and if so, how does this differ from Laboring Gug's response triggering upon receiving its final wound)?

(1.11) Forced Responses

A Forced Response must trigger, if able, and is not considered a player triggered effect, but is instead a card triggered effect triggered by the game state that is resolved by the player who controls the card.

For example: Danielle has Bokrug (Forgotten Lore F110) in play. During a story, Danielle’s characters lose a combat struggle and Bokrug is selected to be wounded. Even during the story resolution phase when normal actions and responses cannot be used, Bokrug’s Forced Response which reads: “After Bokrug is wounded as the result of a Combat struggle, choose and wound another character committed to that story, if able.” must trigger.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/64358-youve-got-questions-ive-got-answers-straight-from-damon-stone/#entry628950

(Yipe) Q: Can cards leaving play that have a Response respond to more than 1 trigger, or do they only receive 1 response option before entering the discard pile? For example, what happens when Laboring Gug is targeted by Short Fuse?

(Damon Stone) A: There is no interaction at all if Laboring Gug cannot survive the wounds from Short Fuse. Cards can only respond "on their way out" if the card specifically states in a self-referential manner, that it triggers if the card leaves play. If Laboring Gug had a toughness of 7 it could respond to each wound from Short Fuse, as each wound would open up a response opportunity. If it said instead, "Response: After Laboring Gug receives 1 or more wounds, draw 1 card" It could only respond to each effect that caused it to be wounded, rather than the wounds themselves.

In both instances, the card should have already left play during step 3) Action is executed, and before either 5) Forced Responses or 6) Responses are initiated.

The Action Window in Detail

1) Action is initiated

2) Disrupts

3) Action is executed

The active player now executes the effects of the action. If this action removes one or more cards from play, these cards immediately leave play.

4) Passive abilities are initiated

5) Forced Responses

6) Responses

7) Action is resolved (end of action)

Also in both instances, taking a final wound seems to meet the criteria for the exception of cards that may be triggered by themselves, self-referentially, due to "effects that may cause that card to leave play" (like taking a final wound) or to themselves leaving play.

Responses on Cards Leaving Play

Some cards respond to themselves leaving play, self-referentially, or to effects that may cause that card to leave play. Such responses can be triggered as if the card were still in play Note that only Response or Forced Response effects can be triggered in this manner, and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play. Cards may not take “one last action” before they leave play.

For example the Response effect on Professor Nathaniel Peaslee, Scholar of the Arcane (Core Set F24) can be triggered in response to him entering the discard pile from play.

2) Can you clarify and/or provide examples of what is meant when the FAQ refers to Responses On Cards Leaving Play, of "...only Response or Forced Response effects can be triggered in this manner, and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play," and whether this applies to being wounded in particular.

The way the FAQ reads, it certainly sounds like Bokrug's forced response and Laboring Gug's response meet the criteria stated here, in that their effects are self-referential, and that they respond to being wounded which is an "effect that causes them to leave play"... However, the Laboring Gug ruling at least states otherwise.

Just FYI, there's a lot of confusion on this topic in the forums.

I had a go at answering myself - thinking that perhaps "self-referentially .. to effects that may cause that card to leave play" DIDN'T mean "wounded", but instead meant explicit references to being "destroyed", "sacrificed", "discarded", etc...

...but that was before I found the Bokrug example in the FAQ, and now I'm perplexed.

Neither Bokrug nor Laboring Gug’s ability will trigger after they have received lethal damage.

"Some cards respond to themselves leaving play self-referentially or to effects that may cause that card to leave play.”

We have two different things being referred to here, the first is “Response: After Professor Nathaniel Peaslee enters the discard pile…” and refers directly to him entering the discard pile. The second is, "Forced Response: After College Prospect is destroyed, draw 2 cards.” And it refers to the effect that causes him to leave play. Wounding is not the effect that cause a character to leave play, it simply places a wound token on the character. The game rule is the effect that destroys any character that has wounds exceeding its toughness. So “After effect triggers” must state it works on the character leaving play or the effect (destroy, sacrifice, return to hand, remove from game, etc.) that causes them to leave play.

Does that make more sense?

That absolutely does make sense. Thank you...

(continued below)

Edited by jasonconlon

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(continued from above)

However that then raises the question of Andrew Chapman's ability, which was ruled otherwise. Can you confirm if that ruling was incorrect, or what the difference is between these different scenarios if the ruling is correct?

Does Andrew Chapman (The Key and the Gate F48) protect characters against the triggered effect of Khopesh of the Abyss (Ancient Relics F16) effect?

Andrew Chapman’s ability reads:

“Disrupt: When an opponent’s effect would destroy or make you sacrifice a character you control, instead discard a card from your hand. Then, place a success token on Andrew Chapman.” His ability would be able to disrupt the final wound that would send a character you control to the discard pile, but if the character had Toughness it would only disrupt the final wound.

The difference here is that it is a disrupt ability. Responses and Forced Responses require this rule because they take place after the character has left play, so the effect must specifically state that it triggers when it hits the discard pile or by the means in which it is leaving play so it can trigger from the out of play area. A Disrupt literally halts the resolution of the effect that would remove it from play, does its own thing, and then the rest of the effect that was disrupted resolves (when applicable).

The reason for questioning the Andrew Chapman ruling isn't about timing...

The 'Responses on Cards Leaving Play' uses the phrase "...and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play." Andrew Chapman's ability uses a phrase that seems to have the same meaning "When an opponent’s effect would destroy or make you sacrifice a character you control..."

In your previous message you stated that "Wounding is not the effect that cause a character to leave play, it simply places a wound token on the character. The game rule is the effect that destroys any character..." Doesn't this apply to Khopesh of the Abyss as well - that Khopesh places a wound, but it is then the game rule (and therefore not the opponent's effect) that destroys the character, and thus Andrew Chapman cannot prevent this?

Thanks for that, yeah, that answer is incorrect. I’ll flag it for change, but for now it stands as an execption.

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I'M BEGGING FOR THE ANSWER. I've argued for a long time with my friend. Our friendship will end with the quarrel if there's no conclusion.

 

What's the detail of Framework Action, Could I refer to the player's action window?

 

In the step 1.Framework action is initiated, is there sub-steps of a),b),c)... like player's action window?

 

For example, Pervasive Toxemia is in the game, please tell me whether the following is right or not.

 

Framework action of commit characters to stories:

1.framework action is initiated.

a)Determine the costs. You need exhaust the characters & place one damage on one of you character.

b)Check play restrictions, and decide which characters you control commit to which stories.You should choose and CLAIM which readied characters (which can be exhausted) commit which stories you want.For the toxemia, you must control one or more characters which can be placed damage token.

c)Apply any penalties to the cost(s). Pervasive Toxemia is effective in this instance.

d)Apply any other active modifiers(including reducers) to the cost(s). Effect like "character can commit to story exhausted" is applied.

e)Pay the costs. The exhausting and the damage token is actually paid in this sub-step.

f)Initiation succeeds.

2.Disrupt. I've heared no disrupt exists which can disrupt a character to commit.

3.The framework action is excuted. The claimed characters are now committed to the stories. Move them to the front of the story he committed.

4.Passive abilities (requirements now met) are initiated

5.Force response ,response...and so on.

6.end of the framework action.

 

The key is about two matters:

1.Should I claim which characters commit to which stories before pay the costs (include the exhausting & damage token.) and before the players talk about all probable disrupts in the future.

2.Is the exhausting of the character you want to commit and the placing of damage token on one of my characters process simultaneously? And treat the damage token as the multiple costs.

 

If I control August Lindquist and Pervasive Toxemia, Should I tell the opponents how I'll arrange all my characters committed to which stories, or just let the August's disrupt happens, I can decide the committing (or not to commit) after the disrupt?

 

If I only control August Lindquist and Pervasive Toxemia, with August is affected by On the Lam, can I just TRY to commit August to a story, and trigger the distrupt of him?

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Hello,

 

Myself and my gf got the Call of Cathlhu game, and the first "proper"game took us almost 4 hours to complete, meaning there are plenty of questions, so I guess I'll be a comon visitor here :)

 

1) Cathulhu card has an activity which requires a player to discard a character during draw phase. Why is that? Which player has to discrad? And is it necessary?

 

2) How many character can be on the field, cuz at one point i had like 10 is that ok?

 

3) Are there cards that require all the domain resources to be of the same kind?

 

I guess this is it for now, thank you! 

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Hello Karolis,

 

Please note that this thread is intended as a place to collect official answers to rules questions, not to ask questions.

If you are looking for official answers, please scroll down and use the 'Customer Service' link. If you're just looking for answers by other players,
the best place to post questions is here: http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/forum/48-call-of-cthulhu-rules-questions/

 

CardgameDB is owned by FFG and has the most active CoC community on the internet.

 

Regarding your questions:

1) The ability affects both players and requires them to sacrifice a character whenever they draw one or more cards in a draw phase. Please note that sacrificing is a different effect than either discarding or destroying. The underlying theme of the Cthulhu faction is sacrifice/destruction and it's beneficial to play Cthulhu whenever you have either have more characters in play than your opponent or weaker characters. It also has a general effect of creating a board position that is easier to analyze because there are fewer characters to take into account.

 

2) This is not an uncommon situation if you're playing with the core set only. It's less likely to occur in games with carefully created decks, but it can happen. There's no limit to the number of characters that can be in play at the same time. As indicated above, Cthulhu is one of the cards that can help to get rid of excessive characters.

 

3) The keyword 'Loyal' indicates a card that can only be played if the domain drained to pay for the card's cost contains at least a number of cards of the card's faction equal to its cost.
In addition there are cards with a Steadfast requirement indicated by small faction icons in front of the card's title. THese cards can only be played if you have a number of cards of the indicated faction among any of your domains.

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