Questions on Deadly from a Newbie

[JayBassDeluxe 0]

Hello Community, a CCG player from back in the day, who after a long absence decided to get back into the hobby by diving into Westeros.

 

We''ve seemed to pick up the basics pretty quickly, but the whole "deadly" ability has got us a tad confused. I''ve got a several part question in hopes that the veterans can help out a newbie.

 

1. If the defender has an equal amount of "deadly" characters participating in a challenge, the deadly effect is nullified and the challenge resolves as normal, correct►

2. Does the participating character killed by deadly count toward the claim, or is that in addition to the normal claim► e.g the plot claim is 1. attacker has one character with deadly attacking. defender has 1 character without deadly defending.  Attacker wins challenge.  Participating defender is killed.  Is the claim satisfied, or does the defender have to pick an additional character to die to satisfy the claim►

3. Does Deadly "Stack►"  e..g two characters with deadly attack. defender defends with two characters without deadly . Do two characters have to die►

4. Does Deadly take effect even if the attacker loses the challenge► i.e. even if the defenders successfully defend the attack if the attacker had more deadly, a participating defender still has to die► 

 

 

We also had a question come up during last night''s learning-session games.  Does the plot "Rains of Autumn" effect Tywin Lannister►  Is the gold placed on him during marshalling considered an income bonus much like the Lannisport Moneylender►

 

Thanks in advance.

[ktom 598]

JayBassDeluxe said:

1. If the defender has an equal amount of "deadly" characters participating in a challenge, the deadly effect is nullified and the challenge resolves as normal, correct?

Well, keep in mind that "Deadly" has nothing to do with the "normal" challenge resolution, one way or another. Deadly is a passive effect that is initiated after the challenge resolves. So Deadly doesn''t happen until after you figure out who wins, settle claim, award power for "unopposed," and award power for Renown. It''s just another passive effect which doesn''t impact the resolution of the challenge one way or another.

That said, when resolving Deadly, if the attacking player has more participating characters with the Deadly keyword than the defending player, the defending player must choose and kill a participating character. This is one of those situations where a tie is not "more," so the play restrictions are not met when the number of characters with Deadly is equal on the two sides, and nothing dies.

JayBassDeluxe said:

2. Does the participating character killed by deadly count toward the claim, or is that in addition to the normal claim? e.g the plot claim is 1. attacker has one character with deadly attacking. defender has 1 character without deadly defending.  Attacker wins challenge.  Participating defender is killed.  Is the claim satisfied, or does the defender have to pick an additional character to die to satisfy the claim?

Deadly and claim are two totally different things. There are a couple of problems with your "count toward claim" line of thinking:

• Deadly works in intrigue and power challenges too, you know. How would you count it toward claim in those challenge types►
• As mentioned above, Deadly is a passive effect that happens after the challenge resolves. Settling claim is part of resolving the challenge. Therefore, the claim effect comes first, so the idea that "participating defender is killed; is claim satisfied►" is actually backwards, timing-wise.
• Note that the attacker doesn''t have to win the challenge in order to control the most Deadly characters; the defender might have to kill a character for Deadly even if there is no claim. 

So, no. Deadly is not part of claim. They are two totally separate things that initiate, and resolve, separately.

JayBassDeluxe said:

3. Does Deadly "Stack?"  e..g two characters with deadly attack. defender defends with two characters without deadly . Do two characters have to die?

You may want to take another look at the definition of Deadly in the Core Rule book. It talks about killing one defending character if the attacker has the most participating characters with the keyword. Nothing in there about killing one defending character for each attacking player with Deadly, so there is nothing saying that it "stacks." Deadly only resolves once, no matter how many attacking or defending characters have it.

JayBassDeluxe said:

4. Does Deadly take effect even if the attacker loses the challenge? i.e. even if the defenders successfully defend the attack if the attacker had more deadly, a participating defender still has to die?

Again, the definition of Deadly only talks about what happens when the attacker has the most participating Deadly characters. Since it makes no mention of the attacker actually winning the challenge, the attacker winning the challenge has nothing to do with Deadly.

 

 It sounds like your biggest misconception is thinking that Deadly is somehow part of the challenge. It is not. It is simply activated when a challenge resolves (if an attacking character has the keyword). As mentioned above, it is a completely separate effect. 

JayBassDeluxe said:

We also had a question come up during last night''''s learning-session games.  Does the plot "Rains of Autumn" effect Tywin Lannister?  Is the gold placed on him during marshalling considered an income bonus much like the Lannisport Moneylender?

No. The gold is placed on Tywin because of his card effect, not because you are counting income. Not to sound like a broken record here, but it is a completely separate effect. (For example - Tywin''s ability says to put the gold on him at the beginning of the Marshaling phase; if he was part of income, you''d have to wait to get that gold until you actually counted gold - which could be considerably later if you are not the First Player.)

[JayBassDeluxe 0]

Okay, I think I am starting to understand. The rulebook, tutorial videos, and FAQ didn't offer an examples of deadly in action, so we weren't sure if we were resolving it correctly.  Now, if I understand it (and correct me if I'm incorrect because the FAQ flowcharts don't mention deadly in their progressions) the progression runs as such:

 

1. Attacker declares challenge type  and opponent.

2. Attacker kneels attacking characters

3. Player Actions

4. Active player chooses stealth targets

5. defending player kneels defending characters

6. player actions

7. determine winner of challenge

8. challenge result is implemented (if military challenge and attacker wins, defender chooses number of characters equal to claim to die)

9. reward for unopposed challenge is awarded

10. Renown is awarded

11. "deadly" is resolved  and if applicable, a participating defending character is killed.

12. current challenge is finished and active player moved to next challenge type or ends challenges and next player begins their challenge phase.

 

So, for example, if the challenge was military, and my opponent has one character with deadly attacking and I have one character without deadly defending, no matter the result of the challenge, the defender must die (unless another card or effect saves the character). So, if I pick the defending character as the  character to die because of the military claim, when the deadly resolution occurs nothing additional would happen because there are no longer any participating defenders to kill with deadly because they were already killed by the claim resolution, correct?

 

Likewise, if i have two defenders and neither has deadly and I pick one to die in order to fulfill the claim resolution, the other must die as well for the deadly resolution, correct?  I cannot pick the character already killed, even if they were a participating defender because the still remaining character is the only remaining legal target for that resolution, correct?

 

Finally, back to Tywin real quick.  So, if the gold placed on him is not considered income and while you may spend the gold as if it were part of your gold pool, it is not considered part of your gold pool and therefor not removed during the taxation phase, correct?  So that means if I have him in play for 3 turns and do not spend any gold on him toward card/effects, he would have 6 gold tokens on him at that point.

This gold is not counted for my side during dominance nor does it give Littlefinger any additional strength because this gold is not considered part of my gold pool, correct?

 

 

 

[Khudzlin 734]

Correct on all 3. A card that is already leaving play (see moribund in the FAQ) cannot be made to leave play again and cannot be chosen for such effects. That takes care of the first 2. As for the 3rd, you got it exactly: Tywin only says you can spend the gold, not that it is in your gold pool.

[JayBassDeluxe 0]

Thanks for the help.