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The Hobbit - Over Hill and Under Hill

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Robert McMutton said:

Khaden said:

 

Mattr0polis said:

 

Svenn said:

 

 

They couldn't be shuffled in from the encounter deck, that's for sure. They have different backs.

 

 

Just curious, where did it say the Treasures have different backs?

 

 

I would assume they have player card backs because the article implies that you can use the treasure cards in your deck once they're "unlocked" so if that's the case they couldn't be put into the encounter deck.  But that's still a bit of speculation at this point obviously

 

 

My bet is that the treasures will be like objective cards, with encounter backs, and shuffled in the encounter deck, but they will act as attachment cards, so that when you reveal it from the encounter deck, you let them revealed until you can pay its costs, and attach them to a hero. Once you made that, you can let them be attached to that hero at the end of the quest, and to attempt the following quest (or repeat the current one in order to search for more treasures) with the same heros and deck. So, they will never be shuffled in the player deck.

Just my thoughts. Greetings.

Sounds real!

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I think those treasure cards will be like those victory points. So instead of saying Victory n (with n being a number) it says Victory X (with X being a card name). So once you defeat that card you get that treasure. I'm still unsure if you just immediately shuffle that card into your deck or if you claim the right to be able to include them in your deck in future scenarios. For me it seems the first case is a little bit more likely as that one treasure card which got spoiled is quite powerful for it's cost, so I doubt you can use it during normal deck building even after you claimed the treasure.

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 It could be that treasures are just like objectives, with an encounter deck card.   But there might be duplicate treasure cards with player deck baks that can be switched and shuffled into the deck.   Or they might be have player card backs, but set aside out of play and then be unlocked through an encounter card effect.  Then they might get shuffled into the player deck.

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 FFG does say:

Treasures are new player cards that represent some of the rarest and most valuable items your characters can find while adventuring in Middle-earth. But players can’t include these valuable items in their decks right away. Instead, in order to use treasure cards, players must first locate them during a scenario. Only then do they “unlock” the ability to use these famous and powerful cards in later scenarios.

They could have different backs all together. You just get to attach them for free during setup at the beginning of the next scenario. So the backing of the cards is really a moot point.

Also seems like the Saga editions are just like someone said earlier," a game within a game."  You get board of the normal game and decide one weekened you and your friends will play Saga Edition. Which is cool because more than a few of us have already been trying to play the game chronologically. FFG has beat the players to making an alternate format to the game and I think it is brilliant!

I, personally, am hoping that we get 2 Deluxe and 2 Saga Editions each year.

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Dwnhmcntryboy said:

 FFG does say:

Treasures are new player cards that represent some of the rarest and most valuable items your characters can find while adventuring in Middle-earth. But players can’t include these valuable items in their decks right away. Instead, in order to use treasure cards, players must first locate them during a scenario. Only then do they “unlock” the ability to use these famous and powerful cards in later scenarios.

They could have different backs all together. You just get to attach them for free during setup at the beginning of the next scenario. So the backing of the cards is really a moot point.

Also seems like the Saga editions are just like someone said earlier," a game within a game."  You get board of the normal game and decide one weekened you and your friends will play Saga Edition. Which is cool because more than a few of us have already been trying to play the game chronologically. FFG has beat the players to making an alternate format to the game and I think it is brilliant!

I, personally, am hoping that we get 2 Deluxe and 2 Saga Editions each year.

Your first line there mentions that "Treasures are new player cards." That seals it to me. If they are player cards, they must have player backs. What if it gets discarded from your hero and sent to the discard pile. If you use Will of the West to shuffle it into your deck, it will have to have the same back as other player cards, unless there is a rule that discarded treasure cards are removed from play.

But I must say I'd be disappointed if there were two copies of each treasure, one with each type of back to it. That would be a waste of card space in the expansion, in my opinion.

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Budgernaut said:

 

Dwnhmcntryboy said:

 

 FFG does say:

Treasures are new player cards that represent some of the rarest and most valuable items your characters can find while adventuring in Middle-earth. But players can’t include these valuable items in their decks right away. Instead, in order to use treasure cards, players must first locate them during a scenario. Only then do they “unlock” the ability to use these famous and powerful cards in later scenarios.

They could have different backs all together. You just get to attach them for free during setup at the beginning of the next scenario. So the backing of the cards is really a moot point.

Also seems like the Saga editions are just like someone said earlier," a game within a game."  You get board of the normal game and decide one weekened you and your friends will play Saga Edition. Which is cool because more than a few of us have already been trying to play the game chronologically. FFG has beat the players to making an alternate format to the game and I think it is brilliant!

I, personally, am hoping that we get 2 Deluxe and 2 Saga Editions each year.

 

 

Your first line there mentions that "Treasures are new player cards." That seals it to me. If they are player cards, they must have player backs. What if it gets discarded from your hero and sent to the discard pile. If you use Will of the West to shuffle it into your deck, it will have to have the same back as other player cards, unless there is a rule that discarded treasure cards are removed from play.

But I must say I'd be disappointed if there were two copies of each treasure, one with each type of back to it. That would be a waste of card space in the expansion, in my opinion.

 

 

Good point. The developers are always trying to push something innovative to the universe though. Those innovations are what I am concerned with. NOT the backs of the decks, albeit a minor part of the innovation. 

My point being How is THOU going to change the game or game state?


Maybe we get Istari resources in the next arc ?For that Matter maybe this is a playtest of sorts for race specific resources i.e. Rohan, Dunedain and so on.

Could treasures be a new way to introduce player prizes for tournaments? Win/participate in a tournament: Get a Registered prize that you get to play with in subsequent tournaments.

The same goes for the Bilbo Card. Could be a new way to get exclusive Characters that support your favorite race? For all purposes we could see an scenario where all the races are actually fighting Sauron at some point. Each player would need to represent the Race with Epic Heroes, which this version of Bilbo is. The possibilities, just from this expansion alone, open so much up for speculation.

Over all I think this is a positive move for FFG

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 So only 5 Baggins sphere cards and they can only be used in the two The Hobbit expansions. Seems fair to me. I wonder if they'll try out treasures in other Saga packs only or expand that to some of the regular cycles.

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Dwnhmcntryboy said:

I, personally, am hoping that we get 2 Deluxe and 2 Saga Editions each year.

I hope so too...but I'm pretty sure my wallet is going to hate me if that ends up being the case.

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oooh cant see that happening- the main expansion bulk is the deluxe and cycles, the sagas are specials - well thats the way i see it

id be surprised if we got 2 of each- then again im surprised at this whole thing anyways

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This Hobbit saga expansion caught me by surprise - I was expecting the next deluxe expansion to be hobbit themed given the movie coming out but didn't see the whole saga thing coming.  After thinking about it I really like it.  For me, having interesting new scenarios and new game mechanics is much more interesting to me then new player cards.  Given it is a cooperative game the main way to keep it fresh is with new scenarios and new game mechanics as a fixed encounter deck can't develop new strategies to keep you interested in playing the way a human opponent can.  The challenge with a living card game is every new game mechanic you introduce makes the game more complex and then you have to take it into consideration when designing new scenarios - especially challenging in a cooperative game like this where a scenario has to play well with all sorts of combinations of player cards.  The partially self contained sagas are a way to introduce some interesting new game mechanics in a one-off and not need to worry about them staying with the game as it expands.  I think this allows the designers to introduce some more interesting mechanics and that makes for more enjoyable and challenging scenarios.

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RGun said:

This Hobbit saga expansion caught me by surprise - I was expecting the next deluxe expansion to be hobbit themed given the movie coming out but didn't see the whole saga thing coming.  After thinking about it I really like it.  For me, having interesting new scenarios and new game mechanics is much more interesting to me then new player cards.  Given it is a cooperative game the main way to keep it fresh is with new scenarios and new game mechanics as a fixed encounter deck can't develop new strategies to keep you interested in playing the way a human opponent can.  The challenge with a living card game is every new game mechanic you introduce makes the game more complex and then you have to take it into consideration when designing new scenarios - especially challenging in a cooperative game like this where a scenario has to play well with all sorts of combinations of player cards.  The partially self contained sagas are a way to introduce some interesting new game mechanics in a one-off and not need to worry about them staying with the game as it expands.  I think this allows the designers to introduce some more interesting mechanics and that makes for more enjoyable and challenging scenarios.

That is a very well-thought conclusion. I like your thinking.

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RGun said:

This Hobbit saga expansion caught me by surprise - I was expecting the next deluxe expansion to be hobbit themed given the movie coming out but didn't see the whole saga thing coming.  After thinking about it I really like it.  For me, having interesting new scenarios and new game mechanics is much more interesting to me then new player cards.  Given it is a cooperative game the main way to keep it fresh is with new scenarios and new game mechanics as a fixed encounter deck can't develop new strategies to keep you interested in playing the way a human opponent can.  The challenge with a living card game is every new game mechanic you introduce makes the game more complex and then you have to take it into consideration when designing new scenarios - especially challenging in a cooperative game like this where a scenario has to play well with all sorts of combinations of player cards.  The partially self contained sagas are a way to introduce some interesting new game mechanics in a one-off and not need to worry about them staying with the game as it expands.  I think this allows the designers to introduce some more interesting mechanics and that makes for more enjoyable and challenging scenarios.

 

I couldn't say it better. 

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Well so there will be total 6 scenarios...

 

hmm... What could they be?

scenario 1 unexpected party and trolls (to the Rivendel)

scenario 2 Goblin town (riddles in the dark)

scenario 3 When you excape trolls you meet the wolfs

 

scenario 4 Mirkwood and Halls of Elven king

scanario 5 The Smaug!

scenario 6 Battle of 5 armies

 

Well maybe not, but this is my ques :-)

 

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richsabre said:

that probably wont be far wrong

i wonder how they make the the trolls different from carrock- i feel as if theyve sort of exhausted the whole 'sacked' thing with that quest

 

Maybe make it so that you have to survive a certain number of turns against the trolls until the sun comes up and they turn to stone?

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Many good points above and yonder. I too wondered how the Trolls be different, the survival till sunrise makes a lot of sense, I hope there won't be a chance of killing them otherwise although that may feel strange when your party includes the likes of Boromir, Gimli or Legolas. For thematic reasons, will they advise upon not bringing the Rohan forces here? They may even enforce that but making the quests not friendly for more vulnerable characters; neither seems likely though - and everyone has a choice of making the scenarios the way they like.

I also believe the Journey up to Rivendell should be quest 1. Over Hill and Under Hill quest 2, actually. And the rest until Beorn quest 3. Then the whole Mirkwood business might be part 4, Smaug 5, the Battle 6. Cannot see it done differently now but I have been wrong before.

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ok these are the main bits of the book in my opinion. theyre basically same as hannibal

-nothing of danger happens until the trollshaws- so i reckon that will be 1st

-then the high pass/goblin town

-out of the frying pan- wargs and eagles

 

-mirkwood/ barrel escape (again how they gonna keep this fresh?)

-sneaking into smaugs lair/attack of lake town

-battle of 5 armies

 

its hard to put the masterpiece into just 6 bits but i reckon those above will be the basis for the quests

 

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Cotillion37 said:

richsabre said:

 

that probably wont be far wrong

i wonder how they make the the trolls different from carrock- i feel as if theyve sort of exhausted the whole 'sacked' thing with that quest

 

 

 

Maybe make it so that you have to survive a certain number of turns against the trolls until the sun comes up and they turn to stone?

I imagine that some of the active locations in that scenario will allow us to use Baggins resources specifically to deal with the trolls in some way. That will make it at least a little different from Carrock. The rising sun is also a good idea. Maybe you have to accumulate so many Baggins resources on the active location in order for the sun to come up.

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RGun said:

This Hobbit saga expansion caught me by surprise - I was expecting the next deluxe expansion to be hobbit themed given the movie coming out but didn't see the whole saga thing coming.  After thinking about it I really like it.  For me, having interesting new scenarios and new game mechanics is much more interesting to me then new player cards.  Given it is a cooperative game the main way to keep it fresh is with new scenarios and new game mechanics as a fixed encounter deck can't develop new strategies to keep you interested in playing the way a human opponent can.  The challenge with a living card game is every new game mechanic you introduce makes the game more complex and then you have to take it into consideration when designing new scenarios - especially challenging in a cooperative game like this where a scenario has to play well with all sorts of combinations of player cards.  The partially self contained sagas are a way to introduce some interesting new game mechanics in a one-off and not need to worry about them staying with the game as it expands.  I think this allows the designers to introduce some more interesting mechanics and that makes for more enjoyable and challenging scenarios.

 

I disagree to a point. So far each AP has done exactly what you said. The only over arcing change that has been introduced is Secrecy. Otherwise each AP has introduced its own self contained challenge that the designers can expand upon or leave by the way side.  Saga Edition does not give us anything really new that we have not experienced before. We have a New Hero that changes controllers like Certain objectives and collects resources like a Hero would but with Radagast's restrictions. I am not disregarding the coolness of Sagas as a whole.  Love the concept. It is just not doing anything more or less than what has been done so far by its smaller cousins.

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