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WhiteLycan

Cortex Implant

32 posts in this topic

When are any of those opposed INT tests? I can see Combat Formation being opposed INT, but none of the others. Your patient rarely opposes you saving his life.

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 By RAW, there are no opposed Intelligence tests. The talents and skills I listed use your Intelligence Bonus for various results, hence the use of the Cortex Implant.

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 Yes but unnatural characteristic tests specifically apply to opposed characteristic tests. Except for maybe STR. At least that's what I gleaned from reading both the RT and DH rules for unnatural characteristics. 

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That's like saying a Power Fist shouldn't double your Strength Bonus for damage because it's not opposed. There's no such thing as an Unnatural Characteristic test. An Unnatural Characteristic doubles your base characteristic bonus for all intents and purposes, with the exception of Unnatural Agility not increasing your movement speed. As an added bonus, if you win an Opposed test, your Unnatural Bonus is added to your degrees of success.

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 I never said anything about an unnatural characteristic test. Power fists specifically state they double your STR bonus. 

That's all fine and dandy that it doubles your characteristic bonus. I'm not trying to figure out how unnatural characteristics work. I'm trying to figure out what opposed int tests are available to make and in what situations a higher int bonus is useful. So far all I've come up with is first aid. I'm not sure what the rest of your examples are (assuming by Medicae you meant first aid)

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Let's see what I can find:

Medicae (skill) used for the first aid, successful Medicae Test removes Damage equal to the Explorer’s *Intelligence Bonus* on lightly damaged characters or 1 damage point from heavily or critically damaged characters ... Medicae Skill for extended care speeds the healing process. The Explorer can properly treat a number of patients equal to his *Intelligence Bonus*.

Divine Ministration (Missionary talent) [RT Core, pg 96] may spend a Fate Point to restore an amount of Damage equal to his Willpower Bonus instead of the normal amount. This amount is then added to and multiplied in the normal way depending on the type of care (see the Medicae description on page 83). In the case of first aid to a Lightly Wounded character, the Explorer restores an amount of Damage equal to his Willpower Bonus plus his *Intelligence Bonus*.

Combat Formation (talent) [RT Core, pg 95] Before rolling initiative, all other members of the group may choose to use the character’s *Intelligence Bonus* for all initiative rolls rather than individual Agility Bonuses.

Gun Blessing (talent) [RT Core, pg 99] Using the Explorer’s sacred ability to subtly affect ferrous materials, he can un-jam a number of weapons equal to his *Intelligence Bonus*, so long as they are within a 10-metre radius.

Binary Cortex (Elite Advance - Rite of Duplessence) [into the Storm, pg 105] The brain starts with a number of Intelligence-based Skills, chosen from those currently available on the Explorer’s Advance Scheme (so, if the Explorer is a Rank 4 Explorator, the other brain in the Binary Cortex can buy any skills from ranks 1-4 of the Explorator advance scheme), equal to his *Intelligence Bonus*, and all are considered to be Trained Skills, Basic or Advanced depending on the skill’s normal type.

Stacking the Deck (Navigator Power) [into the Storm pg.192] Novice: The Navigator makes a Dif?cult (–10) Perception Test. If the Test succeeds, he may add his *Intelligence Bonus* x5 to any Manoeuvre Action or single Ballistic Skill Test to ?re the starship’s guns. Adept: The Navigator can make a Hard (–20) Perception Test. If the Test succeeds, the Navigator may take his *Intelligence Bonus* and divide out the points among any of the following starship characteristics to increase them: Speed or Armour. This increase lasts for 1 Strategic Turn, but the Navigator cannot use this ability again for the rest of the combat. Should he fail this Test by one or more degrees, the Navigator suffers two levels of Fatigue. Master: As per Adept, except that the increases last for 1d5 Strategic Turns. In addition, using the power at this level is extremely taxing. As such the Navigator gains two levels of Fatigue or four if the Test fails by one or more degrees.

Levitation  (Astropath talent) [into the Storm, pg 195] To determine how much weight the psyker can levitate with this power, consult Table 9-33: Carrying, Lifting & Pushing, on page 268 of the RT Core Rulebook. Instead of using the psyker’s Strength Bonus and Toughness Bonus, use his Willpower Bonus and *Intelligence Bonus*.

 

Unnatural Intelligence has its uses. With it, Stacking the Deck becomes pretty much obscene.

For its use in opposed tests, maybe a game of chess (with the proper skill applied)? Or an opposed logic test vs a heretical AI to take over the ship's central cogitators?

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Thank you for finding all the examples, but there are plenty of faults (not on you, but on the game designers... or at least faults with their idea of what Unnatural Intelligence is capable of)

My character is a rank 2 Explorator that is going to take Genetor and fills the role of ship medic.

Medicae: INT bonus is only applied to Lightly Wounded targets. Average Toughness Bonus is 3, maybe 4. My INT is 78. There's really no point in having Unnatural Intelligence when it doesn't really have any effect on this skill.

Divine Ministration: Only applies to a single career (Missionary)

Combat Formation: Only one career gets this talent on their career list. It is nice, especially if you have an INT mod of 8 (16 with UI). But most arch-militants don't.

Gun Blessing: Semi-useful. I don't see much gun jamming in my sessions. Not to mention, wasting exp to buy a  talent that just saves a turn one in 20 rounds isn't that spectacular imo.

Binary Cortex: Very nice! Will look into this one.

Stacking the Deck: Only applies to a single career (Navigator)

Levitation: Only applies to one career (Psyker)

 

So the number of uses of Unnatural Intelligence are:
2 for Arch-Militant (Medicae, Combat Formation)
3 for Explorator (Medicae, Gun Blessing, Binary Cortex)
1 for Missionary (Divine Ministration)
1 for Navigator (Stacking the Deck)
1 for Psyker (Levitation)

 

Just a little underwhelming... Wish Rogue Trader used the Inquisitor's Handbook rules for Unnatural Characteristics. Each multiplier reduces the difficulty of related Tests by 1 step (-30 becomes -20, +10 becomes +20, etc.)

 

I really appreciate all the descriptions, H2SO4!

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Unnatural Characteristics in Rogue Trader where badly copied from the other books. If you check Dark Heresy and Deathwatch, it works like this (which is how I use it in my games):

 

1- You double your Characteristic Bonus.

 

2- You add your Unnatural multiplier to all opposed skill tests.

 

3- You lower the difficulty of unnopossed skill tests by one degree (that is, Very Hard becomes Hard, for example).

 

 

PS: Unnatural Willpower is really kick ass for Psykers, since the multiplier is added to your Psy Rating in Rogue Trader (example, Psy Rating 4 + Unnatural Willpower x2 = Psy Rating 6).

 

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WhiteLycan said:

Medicae: INT bonus is only applied to Lightly Wounded targets. Average Toughness Bonus is 3, maybe 4. My INT is 78. There's really no point in having Unnatural Intelligence when it doesn't really have any effect on this skill.

Hardy or, I think, autosanguine remove that restriction.

It seems unnatural int may be more relevant in DH/ascension. There I felt it was rather unbalancing. Not quite as much as the unnatural Wil is with psykers or the vindicare with his full load of physical unnaturals but enough for me to not like it.

For example the Adept/sage gehts unnatural int, he gets medicae, combat formation and nearly all int related skills so the lowering of the difficulty makes it rather powerful.

Besides, yes we had opposed logic tests now and then.
For example when some NPC insulted the party as dumb and the Sage "attacked" him with a full load of scientific bull to prove that it's rather the other way round.

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Maese Mateo said:

Unnatural Characteristics in Rogue Trader where badly copied from the other books.

 

(I asked FFG about that a while back, and they said it's an intentional change.)

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Iku Rex said:

Maese Mateo said:

 

Unnatural Characteristics in Rogue Trader where badly copied from the other books.

 

 

(I asked FFG about that a while back, and they said it's an intentional change.)

 

It would be an intentional change which makes sense if:

 

a) It didn't make Unnatural Characteristics a lot let useful (the only ones that are really useful with the RT as written are Strenght, Toughness and Willpower if you are a Psyker, everything else is pretty useless)

 

b) They didn't use the old rules on future game lines that came after Rogue Trader, like Deathwatch.

 

Rogue Trader been the only game where Unnatural Characteristics works different doesn't make sense at all, and I can't see any intentional design purpuse under it save for "hey, we screw it and forgot to add a pharagraph".

 

Maybe they did have a different design gial in mind when they made the RT core, but it's obvious they changed it when DW came out. Even on Black Crusade you get an additional benefir in addition to increasing the Characteristic Bonus (you add half your Unnatural Characteristic value in Degress of Success to any successful roll from the atribute).

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I find that the Deathwatch uses its rules for unnatural attributes the most effectively. That is to say, in a game soley about Space Marines kicking ass, they can pull off using them as multipliers (instead of bonuses, like in BC, which would work very well with DH and RT) without drastically screwing up balance in combat. Afterall, any powerful Master adversary is going to have a few of those themself, and will put them to good use against the Emperor's finest.

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I'd take the cortex implant just for the insanity points. XD

Anyway, since someone mentioned Unnatural Willpower - where do you get that? Woild be pretty hand for some chars.

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eBarbarossa said:

Anyway, since someone mentioned Unnatural Willpower - where do you get that? Woild be pretty hand for some chars.

 

As far as I know, only Inquisitors in Dark Heresy (Ascention) get Unnatural Willpower (x2) and (x3) on their advance (I'm not sure if they also get x4).

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Maese Mateo said:

As far as I know, only Inquisitors in Dark Heresy (Ascention) get Unnatural Willpower (x2) and (x3) on their advance (I'm not sure if they also get x4).

In DH Ascension:

Inquisitors get Unnatural Will (x2) at Rank 9 for (1000xp), (x3) at Rank 16 (2000xp). Primaris Psykers get Unnatural Will (x2) at Rank 14 for (1000xp), (x3) at Rank 16 (2000xp).

I don't recall seeing (x4)-unnaturals available for characters anywhere, with the exception of STR (x2 BQ muscle graft + x2 power fist + x2 Barrage (combat drug) = x4).

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Sages get Unnatural Int x4 iirc. That might be with cortex implants though.

Death Cult Assassins can get Unnatural Agility x4 too.

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nikink said:

Sages get Unnatural Int x4 iirc. That might be with cortex implants though.

Death Cult Assassins can get Unnatural Agility x4 too.

Dang, missed those. They're by trait, so no implants involved.

Confirms my suspicions, though. Ascension does hand out unnatural characteristics like free candy.

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H2SO4 said:

nikink said:

 

Sages get Unnatural Int x4 iirc. That might be with cortex implants though.

Death Cult Assassins can get Unnatural Agility x4 too.

 

 

Dang, missed those. They're by trait, so no implants involved.

Confirms my suspicions, though. Ascension does hand out unnatural characteristics like free candy.

But only to some careers. 

And if you check which careers are the strongest two the result is two careers with unnatural traits (Psyker and Vindicare)
On the contrary if you check which two are the weakest its two without unnaturals. One clearly being the Stormtrooper. I'd say the second weakest depends on your playstyle.
certainly some individual pc can be weaker than usual despite being of a career that has unnatural trais but I'd say it's unlikely.

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Umbranus said:

And if you check which careers are the strongest two the result is two careers with unnatural traits (Psyker and Vindicare)
On the contrary if you check which two are the weakest its two without unnaturals. One clearly being the Stormtrooper. I'd say the second weakest depends on your playstyle.
certainly some individual pc can be weaker than usual despite being of a career that has unnatural trais but I'd say it's unlikely.

"Strongest" is a relative term also. From a numbers crunching perspective the Vindicare and Primaris "win". A lot of people like to forget the fact that both these classes are basically property and little more than tools to be used by their master.

Another question is how many GM's out there actually have and enforce strictures for any Death Cult Assassins in their group? They are part of a cult with a strict doctrine after all.

There are a lot of unwritten rules of who and what something is, including how they interact in the 40K verse, that people seem to forget. These societal rules are very important to keep in mind since they are what gives the other guys their time to shine. If an Inquisitor wheels out a Temple Assassin at a political meeting or social event the message is Death is Coming. An Inquisitorial Stormtrooper taken to the same event is going to send the message that I have power and the Stormtrooper is able to converse with people that the Inquisitor can't without raising suspicion, or causing people to run. A Temple Assassin is a death threat with a hand grenade after you pulled the pin, a Stormtrooper is a move on a regicide board. 

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ItsUncertainWho said:

Umbranus said:

Another question is how many GM's out there actually have and enforce strictures for any Death Cult Assassins in their group? They are part of a cult with a strict doctrine after all.

There are a lot of unwritten rules of who and what something is, including how they interact in the 40K verse, that people seem to forget. These societal rules are very important to keep in mind since they are what gives the other guys their time to shine. If an Inquisitor wheels out a Temple Assassin at a political meeting or social event the message is Death is Coming. An Inquisitorial Stormtrooper taken to the same event is going to send the message that I have power and the Stormtrooper is able to converse with people that the Inquisitor can't without raising suspicion, or causing people to run. A Temple Assassin is a death threat with a hand grenade after you pulled the pin, a Stormtrooper is a move on a regicide board. 

While we have not yet gotten there yet... My Death Cultist, is a Moritat who lives by the code..  and well has a twisted logic that he is Emperor's Scalpel, that line came from our Priest, now Witchhunter to be Inquistor.  He will serve as his Bodyguard/Living Weapon and yes bring him is like unpinned Hand Grenade.  His role is not to talk to people, just kill them, as I designed him from the get go with very limited social skills.

 

 

 

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My point is and alsways was that DH (including ascension) and RT both would be very much better games without those unnatural traits.

 

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And i feel that point is not actually true, but that is largely a taste thing. Personally a I find the unnatural traits one of the most intriguing parts of the system.

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