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peterstepon

How would you conquer the Jericho reach?

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I think the best way to conquer the JR is to do pretty much what they are doing, but with a successful truce with the Tau. Ebongrave would have to go - making him a Rogue Trader as a 'reward' for his service should suffice. That'll free up a huge amount of resources (both Imperial and Tau) that can be turned against the 'nids. Once the 'nids are dealt with the Imperium will once again have the resources of the Orpheus Salient (what's left of it) to draw upon (and some of the forces there can be redirected) and can finally crush the forces of Chaos. From there they can move on to mop up the Tau.

Ebongrave is essentially the greatest impedement to Imperial victory.

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It's definitely a case where a truce with the Tau - even an unofficial one like was done during the first 'nid invasions - would be the best bet.  Especially if both the Imperium and Tau then focus on big time defense to try and funnel the Tau at the Stigmartus.  That would in turn help nullify the biggest advantage of both those groups.  Seemingly endless numbers. 

 

Of course all the hints of the Necrons being in the sector might just change the entire schema of things again.  ;)

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Hmm… the Tau influence is surely strong here. Why don't we try something different , like crippling the Tau to a point where the Imperial Guard be able to crush them? For example, try out the following tactics:

If you played your kill-team's cards right up till now, you'll know there are dangerous xenos artifacts known as the Delirium Trellises, which are capable of plunging entire regions of a planet into madness. So, you'll need to collect some (more the better) of the Trellises and bring them to a secure location, where you could tamper with them at your leisure.

Extort or purchase the services of a… non-orthodox Mechanicus adept if necessary, but learn how to duplicate the effects of the Trellis. Once this is done, produce a number of implant-sized devices emanating the energies of the Delirium and use them to infect the Tau. Now, don't be careless about it, for this is a one-shot weapon. Capture some of the high-ranking Fire (or even better - Ethereal) case members and "improve" them with Delirium implants. Subjected to their energies, mentally unstable Tau would invariably begin to succumb to their darker side; ideally, the host organism must be protected from the implant's effects, so that it would remain sane, but will slowly drive those around him crazy.

Also, use the gene-splicing technique to infiltrate Tau society. Trained human terrorists, genetically altered to pass for a Tau upon a cursosry inspection (ie, provided with hooves and Tau skin grafted on their skulls and hands) could be dropped deep behind enemy lines with a single order: to commit as many atrocities as they can. Poison the water sources, spread virulent diseases, butcher Tau offspring, pick off Ethereals if possible… that sort of thing.

Eliminate every human settlement which decided to throw their lot with the Xenos in the bloodiest way possible, always letting a single survivor to stumble away. Let human colonists learn their lesson: they're either with the Imperium or against it. And if they are against it, the Angels of Death will come and obliterate them. OR, better yet, use Tau-disguised warriors to do the same.

Hunt down and kill every Imperial commander who would consort with the Tau. Lord-commander Ebongrave will surely assist you in this noble undertaking.

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Erborn said:

Eliminate every human settlement which decided to throw their lot with the Xenos in the bloodiest way possible, always letting a single survivor to stumble away. Let human colonists learn their lesson: they're either with the Imperium or against it. And if they are against it, the Angels of Death will come and obliterate them. OR, better yet, use Tau-disguised warriors to do the same.

 

That falls dangerously close to consorting with the Ruinous Powers and falling to the Blood God…  Please stay right where you are, a nice man with a rosette will be with you soon.

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Dulahan said:

Especially if both the Imperium and Tau then focus on big time defense to try and funnel the Tau at the Stigmartus.  That would in turn help nullify the biggest advantage of both those groups.  Seemingly endless numbers. 

 

 

Yeah, so I just noticed my typo.  I meant funnel the 'nids, not Tau!  And too late to edit.

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Erborn said:

Hmm… the Tau influence is surely strong here. Why don't we try something different , like crippling the Tau to a point where the Imperial Guard be able to crush them? For example, try out the following tactics:

If you played your kill-team's cards right up till now, you'll know there are dangerous xenos artifacts known as the Delirium Trellises, which are capable of plunging entire regions of a planet into madness. So, you'll need to collect some (more the better) of the Trellises and bring them to a secure location, where you could tamper with them at your leisure.

Extort or purchase the services of a… non-orthodox Mechanicus adept if necessary, but learn how to duplicate the effects of the Trellis. Once this is done, produce a number of implant-sized devices emanating the energies of the Delirium and use them to infect the Tau. Now, don't be careless about it, for this is a one-shot weapon. Capture some of the high-ranking Fire (or even better - Ethereal) case members and "improve" them with Delirium implants. Subjected to their energies, mentally unstable Tau would invariably begin to succumb to their darker side; ideally, the host organism must be protected from the implant's effects, so that it would remain sane, but will slowly drive those around him crazy.

Also, use the gene-splicing technique to infiltrate Tau society. Trained human terrorists, genetically altered to pass for a Tau upon a cursosry inspection (ie, provided with hooves and Tau skin grafted on their skulls and hands) could be dropped deep behind enemy lines with a single order: to commit as many atrocities as they can. Poison the water sources, spread virulent diseases, butcher Tau offspring, pick off Ethereals if possible… that sort of thing.

Eliminate every human settlement which decided to throw their lot with the Xenos in the bloodiest way possible, always letting a single survivor to stumble away. Let human colonists learn their lesson: they're either with the Imperium or against it. And if they are against it, the Angels of Death will come and obliterate them. OR, better yet, use Tau-disguised warriors to do the same.

Hunt down and kill every Imperial commander who would consort with the Tau. Lord-commander Ebongrave will surely assist you in this noble undertaking.

First of all, the Imperium doesn't really have the ability to do most of that. Their more advanced technologies aren't something they can replicate very well. For example creating 'gene-spliced' infiltrators - not really an option. That kind of tech is just too rare.

As for the whole 'kill anyone who associates with the Tau' strategy - that's what they are using at the moment. And it's failing badly. Huge amounts of Imperial resources are being wasted on hitting such targets and rooting out 'heretic' who would dare to consort with the Tau. It also costs you the assets you've just destroyed. Take the quarantined worlds - valuable planets that could add their resources to the Crusade forced into ruin by Ebongrave's paranoia. It mostly just serves to drive people further into the alien's grey arms.

And ultimately all this benefits you nothing. Even if you manage to weaken the Tau it only serves to make life easier for the nids. You end up swapping one xenos for another (worse) one.

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Well… technically, the gene-splicing and the creation of… let us say, "new tools for the task"… is entirely possible. Not recognized by the more narrow-minded and puritanical Adeptus Mechanicus, but possible. You'll have to be careful with this knowledge, of course, and the triumphant black ops won't be able to return back home from their little trip into Tau territory, but that's pretty much obvious.

As for the killings, I don't suggest ferreting out a few Tau sympathizers: that indeed would be a pointless waste of resources. No, what I'm talking about is a systematic genocide of all that opposes the Imperial Armies.

Take the quarantined worlds for example: why was the quarantine established in the first place? Because someone at the top was afraid to do what must be done to prevent the world from slipping into xenos worship, that's why. Several carefully orchestrated atrocities in residental and commercial districts of their cities, where human casualties would be the highest at the minimal loss of infrastructure; the blame heaped upon the Tau, the flames of population hatred directed against the blue-skinned freaks…

The regrettable fall of these worlds could have been easily averted.

As for the phenomena of Tau sympathy, please consider that all Xenos - no matter how good-looking or seemingly benevolent - are the enemies of Mankind. If anything, the Tyranids are less of a threat than the Tau, because the former only consume the body, while the latter defile the soul.

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Erborn said:

Well… technically, the gene-splicing and the creation of… let us say, "new tools for the task"… is entirely possible. Not recognized by the more narrow-minded and puritanical Adeptus Mechanicus, but possible. You'll have to be careful with this knowledge, of course, and the triumphant black ops won't be able to return back home from their little trip into Tau territory, but that's pretty much obvious.

I think you misunderstand. The technology exists - it's just not available. Finding someone who could provide you with the tech to implement your plan and providing him with the resources to do it is probably beyond the means of even the Deathwatch. Doing it without getting caught… even harder.

 

Erborn said:

As for the killings, I don't suggest ferreting out a few Tau sympathizers: that indeed would be a pointless waste of resources. No, what I'm talking about is a systematic genocide of all that opposes the Imperial Armies.

Take the quarantined worlds for example: why was the quarantine established in the first place? Because someone at the top was afraid to do what must be done to prevent the world from slipping into xenos worship, that's why. Several carefully orchestrated atrocities in residental and commercial districts of their cities, where human casualties would be the highest at the minimal loss of infrastructure; the blame heaped upon the Tau, the flames of population hatred directed against the blue-skinned freaks…

The regrettable fall of these worlds could have been easily averted.

Again - this kind of thing has been tried. It's counterproductive. Doesn't stop the Imperium from trying it, admittedly. Which is one of the reasons why they are losing the war for the Reach.

Erborn said:

As for the phenomena of Tau sympathy, please consider that all Xenos - no matter how good-looking or seemingly benevolent - are the enemies of Mankind. If anything, the Tyranids are less of a threat than the Tau, because the former only consume the body, while the latter defile the soul.

Victory often comes with a cost. A treaty with the Tau may stain the soul, but is worth it if it will secure victory. The High Lords will ignore a peace settlement with the Tau Empire if it means defeating the 'nids and the forces of chaos, securing hundreds of worlds for the Imperium and the insuring the security of the Warp Gate. Currently the only thing standing in the way of such an agreement is Ebongrave… I don't fancy his long term survival prospects.

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Why you assume that Tau won't strike first when Chaos and Tyranid are beaten? Don't you think that unoposed Tau would spy and corrupt Imperial citizens?

Aleins cannot be trusted they must be utterly destroyed and Imperium must find way to use more strenght against all enemies in Jericho

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coolzyg said:

Why you assume that Tau won't strike first when Chaos and Tyranid are beaten? Don't you think that unoposed Tau would spy and corrupt Imperial citizens?

Aleins cannot be trusted they must be utterly destroyed and Imperium must find way to use more strenght against all enemies in Jericho

 

Of course they will.  You just expect it and knowing is half the battle

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coolzyg said:

Why you assume that Tau won't strike first when Chaos and Tyranid are beaten? Don't you think that unoposed Tau would spy and corrupt Imperial citizens?

Aleins cannot be trusted they must be utterly destroyed and Imperium must find way to use more strenght against all enemies in Jericho

It doesn't matter. The Tau alone are no threat to the Imperial forces in the Reach. Even with a 'first strike' they would accomplish no more than retaking a few worlds. They just don't have the resources to drive the Imperium from the Reach. WIth the 'nids and chaos defeated the Tau could hope for at best holding on to what they currently possess.

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macd21 said:

coolzyg said:

 

Why you assume that Tau won't strike first when Chaos and Tyranid are beaten? Don't you think that unoposed Tau would spy and corrupt Imperial citizens?

Aleins cannot be trusted they must be utterly destroyed and Imperium must find way to use more strenght against all enemies in Jericho

 

 

It doesn't matter. The Tau alone are no threat to the Imperial forces in the Reach. Even with a 'first strike' they would accomplish no more than retaking a few worlds. They just don't have the resources to drive the Imperium from the Reach. WIth the 'nids and chaos defeated the Tau could hope for at best holding on to what they currently possess.

 

Because the Tau don't win through military might. They win through coersion, brainwashing, and societal infiltrating. Once they manage to worm their way into a planet's society, they send a bunch of brainwashed xeno-cultists out to try to garne more support for the Greater Good, while peacefully neutralising the culture they've taken over. Just because they don't like to stand and fight, doesn't make them safe. With the tyranids and archenemy forces destroyed, the best the Tau could hope for after a ceasefire or merging of forces is to have the entire Reach seceed from the Imperium of Man.

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It's kinda funny that guy with tau avatar trying to persuade us that Tau aren't dangerous and we should all join greater goo… I mean that Imperium should make temporary ceasefire

:D

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Sad, isn't it. The xenos think that they are subtle. Let us show them the true meaning of subtlety… SEND IN THE ASTARTES!

 

Subtle? No. Satisfying? Oh so very much yes. 

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professor_kylan said:

Sad, isn't it. The xenos think that they are subtle. Let us show them the true meaning of subtlety… SEND IN THE ASTARTES!

 

Subtle? No. Satisfying? Oh so very much yes. 

I agree. Purge the xenos!

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Radwraith said:

I agree with the Poster who suggested bringing in Rogue traders. I would use them primarily in the Chaos and Nid Salients. To entice them to come I would offer "Letters of Marque" that would pay a bounty (paid in the form of achievment points) for each ship destroyed or captured. This would be in addition to any salvage or other profits they manage to get from the encounter. This would help attract the smaller hungrier set of RT Captains who "only' command raiders and frigates. I would encourage Larger Dynasties to operate in the Chaos Salient with promises to recognize their legitimacy when founding or liberating colonies in this region as well as Exclusive trade rights for extended periods etc. 

I would Concentrate My more powerful Naval Capital ships (Battleships and their associated battlegroups) in the Tyranid Salient. Imperial forces have the best chances of success against the Nids in space as well as the opportunity to catch the major "Kraken" class vessels as they "Feed" off of recently conquered planets. Any of these major vessels destroyed will be a devasting blow to tyranid forces in the region. 

The major ground offensives I would confine mostly to The Tau Salient. While I agree that this is the weakest miltary force of the three it also presents the greatest opportunity to garner recources withouth the threat of some sort of "residual contamination" from the previous owner. Also; The Tau have no answer for many of the Imperium's best units (I have never seen anything that spoke to a Tau equivalent of a Titan!). This is true both in space and on the ground. Additionaly, thus far the Tau have shown no affinity for psychic powers nor any particular defence agains them! These factors make the Tau salient the most ready for conquest IMHO.cool.gif  

Radwraith said:

I agree with the Poster who suggested bringing in Rogue traders. I would use them primarily in the Chaos and Nid Salients. To entice them to come I would offer "Letters of Marque" that would pay a bounty (paid in the form of achievment points) for each ship destroyed or captured. This would be in addition to any salvage or other profits they manage to get from the encounter. This would help attract the smaller hungrier set of RT Captains who "only' command raiders and frigates. I would encourage Larger Dynasties to operate in the Chaos Salient with promises to recognize their legitimacy when founding or liberating colonies in this region as well as Exclusive trade rights for extended periods etc. 

I would Concentrate My more powerful Naval Capital ships (Battleships and their associated battlegroups) in the Tyranid Salient. Imperial forces have the best chances of success against the Nids in space as well as the opportunity to catch the major "Kraken" class vessels as they "Feed" off of recently conquered planets. Any of these major vessels destroyed will be a devasting blow to tyranid forces in the region. 

The major ground offensives I would confine mostly to The Tau Salient. While I agree that this is the weakest miltary force of the three it also presents the greatest opportunity to garner recources withouth the threat of some sort of "residual contamination" from the previous owner. Also; The Tau have no answer for many of the Imperium's best units (I have never seen anything that spoke to a Tau equivalent of a Titan!). This is true both in space and on the ground. Additionaly, thus far the Tau have shown no affinity for psychic powers nor any particular defence agains them! These factors make the Tau salient the most ready for conquest IMHO.cool.gif  

I am resurrecting this post to make a point: For all the talk about a "Ceasefire" (Read: Surrender!) with the Tau, Why not take THEIR territory first? Obviously, there are a number of valuable resources available from this salient. Since the Tau are NOT a military match for the Imperium  it is basic strategy 101 to attack where you have the greatest odds of success! Sniper teams and Kill teams need to ensure top priority is given to taking out any and all Ethereals that can be found. This cuts the head off the snake. Newly conquered populations should be treated as gently as possible in order to alleviate the brainwashing of the "Greater good" and reindoctrinate them to the virtuous worship of the God-Emperor! The additional resources can then be allocated to support other endeavors in the other two salients!

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professor_kylan said:

Because the Tau don't win through military might. They win through coersion, brainwashing, and societal infiltrating. Once they manage to worm their way into a planet's society, they send a bunch of brainwashed xeno-cultists out to try to garne more support for the Greater Good, while peacefully neutralising the culture they've taken over. Just because they don't like to stand and fight, doesn't make them safe. With the tyranids and archenemy forces destroyed, the best the Tau could hope for after a ceasefire or merging of forces is to have the entire Reach seceed from the Imperium of Man.

Nope, not a chance. They simply don't have the resources for it. Yes, the Tau like to use diplomacy and subversion where possible, but there's only so much you can do with that. And the Imerium is not without its own defences in this regard. The Tau were able to turn some of the isolated worlds of the Reach during their long seperation from the Imperium, but that's a much easier task than wresting away worlds currently tended to by the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition.

Deal with the 'nids and chaos and defeating the Tau will be a fairly simple operation. They don't have the forces in the Reach to hold out against the combined might of the Crusade and are too far away from the Empire to get enough support to turn them back. The only way this would change would be if the Warp Gate was destroyed.

coolzyg said:

It's kinda funny that guy with tau avatar trying to persuade us that Tau aren't dangerous and we should all join greater goo… I mean that Imperium should make temporary ceasefire

:D

Are you talking about me? Because I don't have a Tau avatar.

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Radwraith said:

 

I am resurrecting this post to make a point: For all the talk about a "Ceasefire" (Read: Surrender!) with the Tau, Why not take THEIR territory first?

Because the Imperium can't spare the forces from the other two Salients to do so. They can't make peace with the 'nids or chaos to allow them to divert those troops. The can make peace with the Tau. This has two benefits - it frees up a huge amount of troops that can be moved to one of the other salients and it also further blunts 'nid advances by allowing the Tau to do likewise.

This is currently the Crusade High Command's plan. The Tau would also be happy with such an arrangement. Ebongrave is the only one stopping it from going ahead.

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I object! You can't just get rid of Ebongrave. He knows the true way frowards. Kill the Tau, burn, punish and torture their foul kind. Only he can win that front. We cannot risk such a perilous action, he and only he understands the threat of the Xenos!

 

(I like Ebongrave) :)

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Apologize (grovel) to the Black Templars and convince them that another crusade is needed. They would be more than happy to go Godzilla on whomever they are pointed at.

Send them against the Tau and you get the planets back, albeit with a greatly reduced population.

Send them against Chaos and their expansion on that front would come to a screeching halt as the traitors found a foe as batpoo crazy as them.

Send them against the nids and the Black Templars would see if they could digest chainswords.

:D

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The Tyranids are the main threat because they have a massive amount of troops(animals). So call in the Ultramarines! Tyrranic war veterans are reccomended for a happy day. There are several good reasons to 'win' over the Ultramarines. These are Tyranids and so must be destroyed, it gives Chaplain Cassius a chance to learn and kill his most hated foe and the hive fleet is a splinter fleet from Behemoth.

 

In reply to what Killbeggar said I do agree that Black Templars should be good for the job. They are crazy, psychotic and generally very excellant killers. I wonder if High Command could presuade the Space Wolves to come back. This time bringing Logan Grimnar.

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Everyone saying "kill Ebongrave!", I can back that, but it's being said from the perspective of readers. Few people in the game know how wacko he is, whether that's actually good or bad for his current assignment, so no one's planning his murder, except maybe some Tau. Also, stamping out the Tau really doesn't gain anything. It will cost troops, gain no troops, and while resources are great, it's letting Chaos and Hive Fleet spread.

 

Everyone saying "call in the _________________ (Black Templars/Ultramarines)", if they could, I believe they would have. We need to remember that Space Marines are a finite resource, and the Imperium has a million other wars it's prosecuting. It doesn't probably have free companies of the above mentioned Astartes to throw in. Also, screw those Space Marines, because a similar force almost ate McCragge, and that was with Marneous Calgar himself in command. The greatest living Space Marine, and as many more of his best as it takes to man his capital world almost lost to a similar foe. These Nids are more spread out, and there are other threats to stab the Astartes in the back, crippling them in front of the Devourer. The Black Templars might fare better, but Nids evolve really fast, and the Dagon Overlord is akin to the Swarmlord, that basically DID kill Calgar, except for he burned a Fate point, or three.

 

Luckily, the new Nid Codex has a really nice bit where it addresses Nids vs. Chaos, so I think those two fighting actually would be the best option.

 

One thing I really do wish, though is that the Imperium had a real goal in the Reach, beyond "it exists, therefore it is ours." It would help so much if the Reach wasn't just a map in a computer game, and the simulation's only winning condition wasn't "Exterminate!" with three computer-controlled enemies, and none of them actively fighting each other. Being the Kra'hen in Imperium Galactica 2 was fun, don't get me wrong, without worrying about assassinations, espionage, or diplomacy, but once more than two other empires knew about you, they often forwent hitting each other, either because they were "allied", or because they were waiting for covert elements to weaken each other first, and they smashed into me, who can't be reasoned with. That's the Imperium. "We want it all, with none of you in it, and screw the losses!" except that the Kra'hen used their whole race, while the Imperium, again, is everywhere, fighting many other wars it might not even remember it is fighting. There is such a thing as too big. If there was just a thing to capture, or kill, or retrieve, rather than "victory!, the last alien scum!, and every planet in the Reach!", the war would seem more feasible. Things held by Chaos and the Nids aren't usually even kosher with the Imperium, so I don't know what they plan to have left, once the war is won, if it ever can be.

Edited by venkelos

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Now I don't want to get in to an argument but if you've read the main rulebook carefully then you would know that it mentions that the Ultramarines are interested but haven't sent a fleet yet. The reason they are interested is because rumours say that Hive Fleet Dagon is a Splinter fleet of Behemoth, the same fleet that devestated Ultramar and almost destroyed the Ultramarines.

 

About saying Black Templars have a better chance of surviving is bull(no offence Killbeggar). I'm talking about Tyrranic war veterans here. They are writing their own codex worth of anti-tyranid tactics. Also they are Ultramarines pretty much good at everything, able to adapt to most circumstances. Even ten can make a difference. Not in direct combat but because the Tyrranic war veterans are experts in teaching. Don't forget their leader is a mad, injured and psychotic killer that has a boltgun only good for killing tyranids. They can train the Space Marines fghting the nids and make them better. Still say high command should get Logan. Sigh, if only that could happen.

 

About making the nids fighting chaos... yeah that would be beautiful.

Edited by Misha

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I am actually planning on introducing a mission based on this post where the players are contacted by an inquisitor that they have worked with at some future point in the game.  And that he proposes an audacious and Radical mission to introduce a large number of Cryo-stored genestealers onto a Stigmartus recruitment world on the other side of the Hadex Anomoly with the aid of a particularly dashing Rogue Trader as transport.  The idea being that it will take time, but it could theoretically draw the hive fleets into the Acheros Salient from the other side.  I think it will raise interesting questions about how far the players are willing to go in the name of accomplishing their goals.  I've always thought the conflict between orthodox and radical inquisitors plays well with getting your characters roleplaying!

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Interesting idea, but extremely dangerous. I mean Genestealers? Wouldn't the side effect being we have to fight corrupted Stigmaratus forces? Still purely radical. I love it. :)

You should add a Puritan who would prefer the mission to fail in an 'accident'. Maybe he has a personal vendetta against the radical? The puritan could send in an assassin to start sabotaging even letting out the Genestealers on the ship causing mass chaos. The rogue trader has some secret to hide, because he is corrupted. This mission is really good for making lots of enemies. Good luck!

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