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KristoffStark

The Three Heads of the Dragon - Spoiler for Almost All Books

22 posts in this topic

Inside the House of the Undying, Dany is given numerous prophesies, one of which involving:

"There must be one more," and "The dragon has three heads."

Okay, so who do you think are the three heads of the Dragon?

The first one is obviously Dany herself.  I don't think anyone can argue that.

I believe the second is Jon Snow.  He's the blood of the Dragon if you believe the Rhaegar + Lyanna theory of his parentage (which I do), and this is largely why I think his apparent death at the end of Dance with Dragons is either not actual death of only temporary.

So that leaves number three.  Who could it be?

An obvious answer is our young Aegon, but it doesn't feel right to me.  Kind of like Quentyn Martel thinking he was one of them... it seems too neat.

I have a friend who insists that it's somehow Tyrion, but I don't buy that.

I've had a sneaking suspicion that it might be Gendry, as the Baratheons did have an infusion of Targ blood a couple generations ago.

Then there's the Three-Eyed-Crow, assuming he is Bloodraven, which seems pretty solid.  But, as ktom pointed out, he's really just a tree at this point.  While ktom doesn't seen a skinchanger being one of the three heads, I am less certain.

Theories?

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KristoffStark said:

Then there's the Three-Eyed-Crow, assuming he is Bloodraven, which seems pretty solid.  But, as ktom pointed out, he's really just a tree at this point.  While ktom doesn't seen a skinchanger being one of the three heads, I am less certain.
I didn't say I don't see a skinchanger as one of the three heads. I said that if there is going to be a skinchanger as one of the heads, my vote is for Bran, not Bloodraven.

I don't think the dragon heads need to be limited to Targaryens, per se.

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 Aside from Dragons, and being less mental than Cersei, Dany has little to offer Westeros.

I think Jon is the key (I think he's either not dead, or not staying dead).

Jon Targaryen - recognised as the son of Rhaegar, and controlling a dragon through his warging abilities will bring the Targaryen loyalists to his cause

Jon Stark - legitimised heir of the King in the North by the decree that Maege Mormont will eventually bring him, will bring the northmen

Jon Snow 'half a wildling' will steal Val from her tower, make her his wife, and lead the free peoples from beyond the wall to re-take Winterfell and exact some long overdue pain and comeuppance on Ramsay Snow.

Jon's coronation will be enough to bring his sister/cousin back to Westeros as Arya wargs herself a dragon and become the third head

Jon - Val - Arya

(almost certainly not what's going to happen, but I think it'd be kind of cool if it did)

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 I really like the theory that Arya will be brought back in by the Iron Banker when he hires faceless men to deal with the giant debts the Westerosi have!

Im almost Convinced that Tyrion is one of the three. There was a whole Barristan chapter where he just talked about that time Tyrion's mam was suposedly raped by Aerys, I find it hard to believe that something like that would be put into the book for no reason. That said, if Tyrion Was one of the heads wouldn't Mqurro have said something different?
His prophecy was that he saw "old dragons, young dragons, real dragons and fake dragons and in the middle of all of it a small man with a big shadow" Surely if Tyrion was a dragon then he would have been one of the ones Mqurro mentions in his prophecy, rather than just a small man with a big shadow.

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 I didn't consider that a prophecy at the time but if it was then I'd assume that young griff was the fake dragon, Dany is the real dragon and Jon is the young dragon. That would mean the 3rd head of the dragon would be the old dragon.

it could possibly be victarion, he's old enough, in the right place and has a horn of dragon control. The horn would allow him to control the dragon without being of the targ bloodline.

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mnBroncos said:

 WHAT okay wow I love these books to death how did I miss this part that Jon isn't Neds??? where is this?

Right now its one of the Jon Snow theories.  The theory in a nutshell is that Jon is actually the son of Raegar and Lyanna (who dies in childbirth) and not Ned's bastard as Ned claims (most likely to keep him safe from Robert). 

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mnBroncos said:

 was there any hints at this? i mean they describe him as so much like ned kinda find it hard to believe not his

/*SPOILERS*/

So there are three main hints in all five books.  The biggest evidence to me is Jon and Arya look alike, Sansa even asked Cat if Arya was a basterd child as well and Cat says no she just has Stark features where all the rest have Tully features.  Jon has no Targaryen features, Arya has no tully features but they look alike. 

That in combination with the fact that Ned is super honorable and wouldn't cheat on Cat.  He probably sacrificed this honor by claiming an affair to keep Robert from killing Jon (because of his hate for Rhaegar), fulfilling his promise to his sister of protecting Jon, a net gain in honor.  At least thats how it straightens out in my mind.

I also think Jon becomes the prince who was promised and will marry Dany, but that's another theory.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories

 

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 i guess could see it happening but though arya was told was someone else. Also, even if he was (and he lives) how would we ever find out for sure with no one alive that would know the truth.

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mnBroncos said:

how would we ever find out for sure with no one alive that would know the truth.

Howland Reed is alive. He was with Ned at the Tower of Joy, where Lyanna died in her "bed of blood" (aka, childbirth), where presumably - if the theory is correct - Ned got Jon in the first place. So yeah, there is still someone alive who knows the truth. And, interestingly enough, that is where Rickon (and soon Davos) was headed.

 

Other hints:

1. As mentioned, Lyanna died in a "bed of blood," meaning that she died in childbirth.

2. In Bran's vision, early in book #1, he looks to the Wall (where Jon was at the time) and sees winter roses blooming there - the same flowers that Rhaegar gave to Lyanna at the Tourney at Harrenhal.

3. Why, exactly, were the 3 best-and-brightest of the Kingsguard far to the south, standing watch over a hostage during a time of open war, rather than guarding the actual royal family, or participating in any of the actual fighting? Maybe because they were guarding the most vulnerable (ie, ready-to-be-born) member of the royal family?

4. Dany's vision of Aegon's birth indicates that Rhaegar believed there needed to be a third child (ie, head of the dragon), but that Elia was unlikely to be able to bear that third child.

5. The only time we have ever seen Ned lie or compromise his honor in the books was when he expected the lie to protect his children. Is it so hard to believe that Lyanna's desperate "promise me," which he acknowledges was hard for him to do, was also a lie to protect a child? It's not like returning her body to the crypts at Winterfell would need to elicit such a desperate promise from him.

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ktom said:

mnBroncos said:

how would we ever find out for sure with no one alive that would know the truth.

Howland Reed is alive. He was with Ned at the Tower of Joy, where Lyanna died in her "bed of blood" (aka, childbirth), where presumably - if the theory is correct - Ned got Jon in the first place. So yeah, there is still someone alive who knows the truth. And, interestingly enough, that is where Rickon (and soon Davos) was headed.

 

Other hints:

1. As mentioned, Lyanna died in a "bed of blood," meaning that she died in childbirth.

2. In Bran's vision, early in book #1, he looks to the Wall (where Jon was at the time) and sees winter roses blooming there - the same flowers that Rhaegar gave to Lyanna at the Tourney at Harrenhal.

3. Why, exactly, were the 3 best-and-brightest of the Kingsguard far to the south, standing watch over a hostage during a time of open war, rather than guarding the actual royal family, or participating in any of the actual fighting? Maybe because they were guarding the most vulnerable (ie, ready-to-be-born) member of the royal family?

4. Dany's vision of Aegon's birth indicates that Rhaegar believed there needed to be a third child (ie, head of the dragon), but that Elia was unlikely to be able to bear that third child.

5. The only time we have ever seen Ned lie or compromise his honor in the books was when he expected the lie to protect his children. Is it so hard to believe that Lyanna's desperate "promise me," which he acknowledges was hard for him to do, was also a lie to protect a child? It's not like returning her body to the crypts at Winterfell would need to elicit such a desperate promise from him.

Good points.

Not to take away anything but there is also

6) Ned's farewell to Jon when Ned leaves south and Jon goes north.  He says "you may not have my name but you have my blood"  HE DOES NOT SAY "you may not have my name but YOU ARE MY SON"  so there is that.

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 wow very interesting (you guys are way better at picking up these small hints then me haha) honestly think be disapointed though since they described him so much like Ned i wanted him to end up lord of winterfell since Bran has an odd story and not sure what going to happen with him, I do see it very likely though that Rickon at the end is most important Stark.

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 I agree Rickon becomes the Stark in Winterfell, Jon becomes king, Dany Queen and I think Bran revives the children somehow.  The question for me is who rides the third dragon?  So far I think it's Tyrion, but since Ageon (Rhaegar's newly found son) has appeared it may be him.

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 As much I'd love to see Jon become king since he is so cool I very doubt it. With only two books left I don't see how Danny and Jon are going to meet and get married that soon. I think may even end up ending with seven different kingdoms again. I wish i knew what was going to happen with Aegon just since he wasn't a pov charactor through series like Danny was I really doubt he is going to become big factor, think is going to die but going to cause a'lot of fighting that helps Danny if she ever decides to come over. But am curious what is going to happen with her meeting up with her old dathraki is she going to get them to join her or have to fight. And she is going to have to probably marry Victorian although i dont want her to because hate greyjoy but she needs his ships. I still could see anyone winning Tyrells are in strong position, Martell can strike any moment and if north unite again always threat, also who knows about stannis. I honeslty have no clue who the three heads are after danny so many people could be

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mnBroncos said:

 As much I'd love to see Jon become king since he is so cool I very doubt it. With only two books left I don't see how Danny and Jon are going to meet and get married that soon. I think may even end up ending with seven different kingdoms again. I wish i knew what was going to happen with Aegon just since he wasn't a pov charactor through series like Danny was I really doubt he is going to become big factor, think is going to die but going to cause a'lot of fighting that helps Danny if she ever decides to come over. But am curious what is going to happen with her meeting up with her old dathraki is she going to get them to join her or have to fight. And she is going to have to probably marry Victorian although i dont want her to because hate greyjoy but she needs his ships. I still could see anyone winning Tyrells are in strong position, Martell can strike any moment and if north unite again always threat, also who knows about stannis. I honeslty have no clue who the three heads are after danny so many people could be

I think young Ageon may be a way to get the Martells to Dany's side in the end.  But I guess we could fill the Internet with theories until winds of winter comes out. :(

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 i didn't think of that I suppose Arianne could end up marry Ageon since the whole Quentyn plan went very bad. But he seemed set on marrying Danny but I don't think she will end up marrying him but I guess possibly. Still unsure really him seems kinda odd just randomly thrown at us, although I do think is him. (I hate how they judge so many people in the book is based on hair and such since so many people can get different traits, like the whole know not Roberts kids.) I still think Mormount may end up one of the heads I wanted him and her to get together lol. Sorry changing this fourm into a general conversation not just the three heads haha

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@ ktom: From the clue in Dance witn Dragons I assumed Osha and Rickon were headed to Skagos. What makes you think they went into the neck? Do they eat people there as well?

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Rubinon said:

@ ktom: From the clue in Dance witn Dragons I assumed Osha and Rickon were headed to Skagos. What makes you think they went into the neck? Do they eat people there as well?
Don't remember the Skagos reference in Dance. My understanding in Clash was that Jojen and Meera suggested Osha head with Rickon to Greywater Watch. Knowing the distrust, rumors, and prejudice related to the crannogmen, the whole "eat people" thing didn't make me think otherwise. 

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I don't have my books with me, but thought they went to White Harbor. And cannibalism is one of the main characteristics of the Skagosi.

I'll check Clash of Kings for that.

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Hmm. It's not like Skagos is anywhere near White Harbor. In fact, it's to the northeast of Winterfell, and White Harbor is to the southeast. If Osha was taking Rickon to White Harbor, Skagos is a very round-about way to get there.

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I think young Aegon is the fake dragon, He's just too good to be true. I think Jon is one of the heads as well because I believe he is Rhaegar's son as well as Azor Ahai reborn. Not to mention Dany. The third head is a toss up and I have no clue who it is.

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