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Decipher rights

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 I know there has been some talk on the boards about Decipher's Star Wars CCG from back in the day. In some ways the game is still alive and 'virtual' cards are still being coated by the players committee. Seeing that Fantasy Flight does have a history of re printing old games I would have to push for an acquisition of the rights to the Decipher game and a reprint as a LCG. I believe Decipher exists, if just barely, and in its time Star Wars CCG was one of the top card games in the world. Fantasy Flight has an extra advantage of having on of the most active Star Wars communities in its hometown, and if they worked with the players committee they would be able to shape the massive collection of cards into LCG sets. If nothing else it would be great to see them buy the mechanics and re launch the game, but with over ten years of playing there has shown to be a clear set of useful cards, and turning them into themed LCG releases would be feasible. Many players lament the fact that Decipher lost the license, and the fact that the game is still played, ten years after going out of print is a testament to the following that the game had. 

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 I will try any Star Wars games FFG creates and was even really excited for the co-op LCG that was coming. However, if they did THIS, aka buy the Decipher mechanics and relaunch one of the greatest card games of all-time in LCG format? I would be 1000% ALL-IN and it would be one of the greatest days ever in my gaming life.

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I would be ecstatic if they did an LCG reprint that got rid of the Rare system. That would be great. As far as I can tell, the only thing Decipher is doing these days is a quasi-pyramid scheme distribution with their Fight Klub CCG. Also, why couldn't they just call it Fight Club?

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herozeromes said:

 

I would be ecstatic if they did an LCG reprint that got rid of the Rare system. That would be great. As far as I can tell, the only thing Decipher is doing these days is a quasi-pyramid scheme distribution with their Fight Klub CCG. Also, why couldn't they just call it Fight Club?

 

 

1) The game's recruitment setup was never a pyramid scheme (or even a "quasi-" pyramid scheme), in that Decipher itself in no way benefited from it financially. Even so, the misinterpretation of it as a pyramid scheme caused them to have long since dropped it in favor of a conventional setup that gives no financial return to the new player's mentor. Obviously this change has not affected the game's negative image, but the distinction is still an important one.

2) Calling it Fight Club would have caused confusion with the movie franchise, as the game has nothing to do with said franchise.

 

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I never played the Decipher game, but I'd be really set against this. The Decipher game may be "dead", inasmuch they aren't making any more, but ebay searches frequently turn up cards, even boxes, and a lot of online shops like troll and toad still have lots in stock (at least, they did when I last swung round there). So it seems there isn't really a need for them to reprint a game that is largely still available.

Such is my view lengua.gif

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spalanzani said:

I never played the Decipher game, but I'd be really set against this. The Decipher game may be "dead", inasmuch they aren't making any more, but ebay searches frequently turn up cards, even boxes, and a lot of online shops like troll and toad still have lots in stock (at least, they did when I last swung round there). So it seems there isn't really a need for them to reprint a game that is largely still available.

Such is my view lengua.gif

I would agree with you for the most part. However, they introduced the first Ultra Rares in the Death Star II expansion. Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, and The Emperor were/are next to impossible to get. There were only 2 per 3 booster CASES (30 booster packs per case, 11 cards per pack). The Luke card, you could play without because you could finish the 6th Jedi Test with Leia or an earlier version of Luke. However, there were a handful of cards that were AWESOME, but useless without Palpatine. So, it would be nice to have those without paying $50 for Luke and $75 for the Emperor.

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That is a very good point there - I hadn't really considered it! I think my knee-jerk reaction was "I want a new game, not a game I could still get now!" The ridiculous price of rares etc is really a very valid reason for wanting to start again. Though, hypothetically speaking, if they did repring the CCG as a LCG, the "good" cards that would traditionally be rare (or worse) would more likely be the ones they only feature one copy of in the core set, and so the arguments would continue...

But I still want something new lengua.gif

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 I played the Decipher SWCCG for years, including doing well at "States" and running many tournaments.  At first, when Lucas pulled the plug, I was pissed.  I still think he is an arrogant, greedy, pretentious....well if you can't say anything good.  However, in time, I saw how the game was, worse than L5R, Pokemon and even MTG in the unbalance they continued to create.  It was awesome to see the story lines from the new episodes merge with the old ones as well as story past Jedi.  However, it became abundantly clear, even with the advent of the "Defensive Shields" that you had to purchase/acquire/win an abundance of "rares" from the latest expansions to have a chance at victory.  Ending with the obvious lack of parody with a handful of very expensive decks dominating the tournament scene, a few exceptions, now and again, but none to make a real difference.  The players committee has address these issues trying to make older cards viable, but again, under Decipher, it was apparent they had no desire to do this.  Furthermore, as a judge and tournament organizer, their prize support was dismal, at best.  With each new expansion selling like hotcakes and the member base growing, surely they could have given more to the community, or perhaps even attempted to a "pro" tournament scene, similar to  MTG, as so many players literally begged for, but they didn't.  I can sit here and go on, but I did enjoy my time with the games regardless.  I don't think Lucas should have pulled the plug so drastically.  I do think WoTC should have and could have done more with the material, but they didn't.  I am eager for a new setup.  I enjoy the Star Wars universe greatly and long to be a part of it more than the limited SWRPG I play.  I appears that FFG gives you all the cards and doesn't put you in a position to buy tons of boosters to support the true joy of these games, deck building and playing.  As this would be my first and only FFG game, I am even more excited about this game.  Following the stories about this game coming out has peaked my interested in the Lord of the Rings LCG, Game of Thrones and Call of Cthulhu.  I look forward to playing these games and soon Star Wars.  My hope would be that the old Decipher fans pour their love for the game into this new one and we can create a great gaming community for fun and social well being.

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MarthWMaster said:

Voxslain said:

 

My hope would be that the old Decipher fans pour their love for the game into this new one and we can create a great gaming community for fun and social well being.

 

 

That would be nice. 

 

I know there are some Decipher SW CCG players in my area who didn't play any of the other SW games after Decipher lost the license who have already said they are planning to pick this game up, so there is hope...

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I would love for them to get the rights but heres what I think they should do if they did (Even though I know it will never happen but one can dream lol)

instead of reprinting the past cards, they should using the same game mechanics, make new cards. For example start with episode 2 and begin the game from that jumping point. Then bring in the clone wars. Use original art much as they r doing now, then eventually move into episode 3. Alternatively they could start with a new hope once again and instead of reprinting the old cards, make all new cards with all new abilities. Then give players the options of being able to play the game with just the ffg versions or mix and match with the decipher cards. For tournaments the rule is easy, ffg cards only. Do the lcg model with no blind buys and u have a winner. Ffg doesnt have to rack their brain coming up with a new play mechanics model, they bring in the old decipher fans, and they appease those who feared the OP deck making.

But actually reprinting the old game I think would be a bad idea in the fact that the game was starting to get a bit OP in favor of certain cards as which has been already discussed here. If Ffg had done this for pvp I would have been behind them 100%. And my old decipher cards wouldnt be collecting dust but I would be able to get continued use out of them as its become hard to find ppl willing to play. (they fear my dark side decks lol)

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It seems to me this endless call for the Decipher game to be resurrected is symptomatic of Star Wars fans in general. Just because there was once a good game over ten years ago means there will never be a good game ever again, in the same way there was once a great film trilogy over ten years ago, so there will never be a good star wars film ever again. We can't keep living in the past like this! I will admit that some of the recent stuff can be a bit sub-par at times, but there is still plenty of good stuff being created all the time for this franchise. 

Hopefully one day there will be a "Decipher veterans" subforum area of this forum, where all such talk can be consigned and maybe, just maybe, it'll stop clogging up some of the interesting discussion and speculation on what this game is all about.

 

Sorry for my mini-rant, but all this Decipher talk is turning into tinnitus. 

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Wasnt living in the past there, i was simply explaining what i would love to see. And just cuz many of us decipher vets like to talk about the game doesnt mean we arent lookin forward to something new or willing to try anything new. We are entitled to our opinions just the same as anyone else, i dont think thats clogging the forums at all. What i dont understand is why some ppl feel so threatened by the fact that many ppl r fans of the old game and like to discuss it, or dreams of it coming back lol. Its a forum, let ppl talk about decipher or wizards or whatever game they enjoyed. All of this actually helps ffg see what the fans liked about older stuff and what they didnt so they can make the better games the newer players (non vets) wanna see.

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spalanzani said:

 

It seems to me this endless call for the Decipher game to be resurrected is symptomatic of Star Wars fans in general. Just because there was once a good game over ten years ago means there will never be a good game ever again, in the same way there was once a great film trilogy over ten years ago, so there will never be a good star wars film ever again. 

 

I totally understand all the Decipher Star Wars talk, as I was also a longtime player of that game. I don't think it's a "living in the past" type of thing as much as a "why create a new game when there is such a great game already sitting there out of print" thing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited for this new game and really just glad to have a Star Wars card game back in general.

But if I had a choice, I'd definitely vote to bring back the Decipher game re-imagined by FFG like they do. Like how they brought back Netrunner from the dead and modernized it with card limits and factions and stuff.

The Decipher game was, and still is, just really special to a lot of people.

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Sorry, yagyu, I wasn't trying to respond directly to you, I just saw the word "Decipher" in the thread title and felt I had to vent! There does seem to be a lot of comments sprinkled throughout here and there that I suppose can be summed up as "well, it'll never beat the Decipher game" without even giving it a chance. Nobody has actually played the finished game yet, but already it is being written off by one group or another, admittedly mostly the co-op fans, but I just feel so strongly that no-one is willing to give anything a chance anymore. 'Everything can never live up to the greatness of Decipher, so why bother trying to produce a new game? Just buy the Decipher rights and give us what we've already had!' It's just such a narrow-minded view that I actually despair. 

Maybe the Decipher rights are so prohibitively expensive that it would bankrupt FFG to buy them? Maybe LFL has expressly forbidden FFG to buy / Decipher to sell (okay, that last isn't very plausible), the terms of the contract and licence dictating FFG to produce a new and innovative game. 

I must admit, if they did buy the rights, I would still buy the game because I would be intrigued - having never bought any Decipher card, it would at least be novel to me. But I wouldn't be happy, as I can already get some Decipher cards if I really want them (ebay lists 64 results for "star wars decipher" as of three minutes ago). It strikes me, essentially, that buying the rights to the Decipher game is a lazy, and easy route, which is precisely what other people are calling aspects of the game FFG are producing. 

Just give it a chance!

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 The Decipher Star Wars ccg was pretty amazing to be honest. But this was mainly due to the fantastic rules and mechanics that Decipher invented. The use of the cards themselves as a resource was a fairly new idea, and the customisation of both light side and dark side decks was pretty infinite.

However, many of the cards were busted to hell, and forced the printing of multiple 'silver bullet' cards to control the metagame. In fairness to Decipher, they did this fairly well, and kept tournaments pretty fresh.

After the Star Wars ccg Decipher used the same 'mechanics' to create a new ccg called 'Wars'. This was sweet too, and played in an almost identical way to Star Wars, but it never really caught on.

I'm extremely excited to give FFG the benefit of the doubt in creating new mechanics for their game, and can't wait to play the game itself!

Will the mechanics be as good as Star Wars ccg? doubtful. And I think that's why many old vet players are wondering about the purchasing of the Decipher rights.

However, I don't think anyone is bashing the new Star Wars lcg yet? Perhaps we're all just a little bit too nostalgic? 

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Osiris said:

 

The Decipher Star Wars ccg was pretty amazing to be honest. But this was mainly due to the fantastic rules and mechanics that Decipher invented. The use of the cards themselves as a resource was a fairly new idea, and the customisation of both light side and dark side decks was pretty infinite.

After the Star Wars ccg Decipher used the same 'mechanics' to create a new ccg called 'Wars'. This was sweet too, and played in an almost identical way to Star Wars, but it never really caught on.

 

 

I still say it was embezzlement slew the beast, but you argue instead that WARS never caught on to begin with. How would you then reconcile your additional argument that SWCCG's success is mainly owed to the strength of its play engine? Could it not be simply that people joined the game because it was Star Wars, and then stayed because the game itself was fun?

I would argue that the latter possibility is far more likely. Unfortunately for me, the biggest turn-off I experienced for SWCCG was how little the rules felt to myself like Star Wars, and that is again surfacing as a problem for a lot of people following this game, including myself. I'm beginning to worry that no ruleset will ever meet my expectations for this universe.

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MarthWMaster said:

but you argue instead that WARS never caught on to begin with. How would you then reconcile your additional argument that SWCCG's success is mainly owed to the strength of its play engine? Could it not be simply that people joined the game because it was Star Wars, and then stayed because the game itself was fun?

No matter how fun or un-fun a game engine is, it was certainly never going to catch on near as popular when you substitute known beloved Star Wars movie characters and items for 'generic guy with generic laser sword'.

The game engine was great, and a lot of people to this day still claim it as one of the best, but without the Star Wars license there was just no way it was going to be near as popular.

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MarthWMaster said:


I still say it was embezzlement slew the beast, but you argue instead that WARS never caught on to begin with. How would you then reconcile your additional argument that SWCCG's success is mainly owed to the strength of its play engine? Could it not be simply that people joined the game because it was Star Wars, and then stayed because the game itself was fun?

I would argue that the latter possibility is far more likely. Unfortunately for me, the biggest turn-off I experienced for SWCCG was how little the rules felt to myself like Star Wars, and that is again surfacing as a problem for a lot of people following this game, including myself. I'm beginning to worry that no ruleset will ever meet my expectations for this universe.

 

I take it you never set up a Force Drain in the Carbonite Chamber with Vader (with a lightsaber for the extra +1) and played "All Too Easy" on the Light Side player that came to stop you?  If you were running the "Dark Deal" Objective, that one play burns your opponent for 8 of his 60 Life Force.  You're totally re-enacting the occupation of Cloud City in that Objective,  especially if you play "Cloud City Occupation".

I really don't want to sound like I'm being glib, but were you playing the game wrong?

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cleardave said:

I take it you never set up a Force Drain in the Carbonite Chamber with Vader (with a lightsaber for the extra +1) and played "All Too Easy" on the Light Side player that came to stop you?  If you were running the "Dark Deal" Objective, that one play burns your opponent for 8 of his 60 Life Force.  You're totally re-enacting the occupation of Cloud City in that Objective,  especially if you play "Cloud City Occupation".

I really don't want to sound like I'm being glib, but were you playing the game wrong?

This is the kind of thing that I LOVED about SWCCG. They allowed you to recreate situations in Star Wars with the chance of a different outcome. It totally nailed the feel of the movies. You COULD easily make a generic deck that spammed non-unique characters, but really the most fun was when you created a scenario like Jedi Training or making the Second Death Star Operational and then having the opportunity as a Rebel to blow it out of the sky. The reason that no other game has touched this feeling is because they just put Star Wars pictures on games that could have been anything. Seriously, WotC could have been a World War II game.

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cleardave said:

MarthWMaster said:

 


I still say it was embezzlement slew the beast, but you argue instead that WARS never caught on to begin with. How would you then reconcile your additional argument that SWCCG's success is mainly owed to the strength of its play engine? Could it not be simply that people joined the game because it was Star Wars, and then stayed because the game itself was fun?

I would argue that the latter possibility is far more likely. Unfortunately for me, the biggest turn-off I experienced for SWCCG was how little the rules felt to myself like Star Wars, and that is again surfacing as a problem for a lot of people following this game, including myself. I'm beginning to worry that no ruleset will ever meet my expectations for this universe.

 

 

 

I take it you never set up a Force Drain in the Carbonite Chamber with Vader (with a lightsaber for the extra +1) and played "All Too Easy" on the Light Side player that came to stop you?  If you were running the "Dark Deal" Objective, that one play burns your opponent for 8 of his 60 Life Force.  You're totally re-enacting the occupation of Cloud City in that Objective,  especially if you play "Cloud City Occupation".

I really don't want to sound like I'm being glib, but were you playing the game wrong?

You actually do sound quite glib, purely by virtue of saying you don't want to, only to propose I was "doing it wrong." But since this is the internet I don't really take what anyone says seriously anyway.

You are right in saying it was great at recreating situations from the movies. I suppose I was simply not that interested in reenacting scenes I knew by heart, and more so in creating all new ones, which this game was only average at doing. Moreover, I just felt that the game's engine, while solid, was too heavily focused on battle tactics, and for this reason I actually felt that WARS, ironically, felt more like how Star Wars game should be. So if FFG were to bring this game back, I would prefer if it were a reimagining in the philosophy of Android: Netrunner. My only concern at this point would be whether or not such a game would be superfluous, since they've already chosen to build a PvP Star Wars game around a new ruleset.

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