bstefanski 0 Posted February 6, 2012 Stannis's Northern Cavalry reads: Stannis's Northern Cavalry cannot be killed or discarded from play during a phase in which its STR has been raised or lowered. King's Pavillion reads: Each character gets +3 STR while it is standing. Does this mean that Stannis's Northern Cavalry cannot be killed in any phase that it was standing while King's Pavillion is in play, or because it is a static effect is the Cav only same the phase the pavillion comes into play and the phase the Cav kneels? Thanks for your help in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ktom 598 Posted February 6, 2012 bstefanski said: Does this mean that Stannis's Northern Cavalry cannot be killed in any phase that it was standing while King's Pavillion is in play, or because it is a static effect is the Cav only same the phase the pavillion comes into play and the phase the Cav kneels? Well, losing a STR bonus is not considering the same thing as lowering that card's STR. If it were, imagine using "gains +1 STR until the end of the phase" effects on a character with Flaming Sword ("cannot have its STR lowered by card effects"). They'd just keep accumulating, never wearing off. So a card's STR is only lowered when a "-X STR" modifier is added into its STR check. But specifically on the question: A character's STR is only raised or lowered when a new STR modifier is applied to it. So Stannis' Northern Cavalry is not having its STR continually "raised" by King's Pavilion while it is standing - at least not in a way that is applicable to its ability. It's STR is only raised when the +3 STR becomes "newly" applicable to a calculation of its STR. The two situations in which that happens are; a) when the location comes into play, and b) when the character goes from kneeling to standing. So unfortunately, the act of kneeling SNC to attack while the Pavilion is out (making its STR go from X+3 to simply X) will not activate its ability and make impossible to kill or discard. But standing it (making its STR for from X to X+3) will. A little backwards from what you were expecting, I'd wager, but there you have it.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mathlete 3 Posted February 7, 2012 What about of The Hound? (The Lanni/Stark one?) He goes away when a character's STR is lowered. If I defend with a Stark character whose normal STR is 3 the kneel with a Frozen Outpost giving a +2 STR, for a total of 5, would The Hound go back to hand at the end of the challenge? What is I have a Rusted Sword on a character then someone discards that attachment (thus, reducing the character's strength)? Now does The Hound go back to hand? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ktom 598 Posted February 7, 2012 OK, mathlete. I know you're asking for other people, but you know I have to give you crap for this, right? As explained above, a card's STR is not considered to be lowered when a +X modifier is removed, only when a -X modifier is added. So your examples, both of which involve +X modifiers being removed, do not count as STR being lowered or reduced. Using The Hound instead of the Cavalry or Rusted Sword instead of the Pavilion doesn't change the rule, you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolzano2 0 Posted February 8, 2012 ktom said: OK, mathlete. I know you're asking for other people, but you know I have to give you crap for this, right? *more people* It is a ktom has answered. This question has been asked and solved in several topics a while ago. Basically, a STR modifier wearing off is not considered a point of initiation for anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ktom 598 Posted February 8, 2012 Bolzano said: It is a ktom has answered.I'm really hoping this is supposed to be "It is as ktom has answered." As for the ribbing of mathlete, you've got to understand, he and I go back a long way. He knows the game as well, if not better, than I do. But every now and then, he posts questions he knows the answer to because people don't believe him unless they see it answered by someone else on the rules board. So when a question's progress is essentially: "Can I save a character with a dupe during Wildfire?" "No. Since the plot is 'cannot be saved,' you are not allowed to use any effect that would save the character from being killed by Wildfire." "So, if nothing can save, can I still use Iron Mines?" it's a pretty safe bet that mathlete is not asking the question for himself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson 0 Posted February 8, 2012 ktom said: it's a pretty safe bet that mathlete is not asking the question for himself. You're too good, Ktom. It'd be for my benefit... lol. Hope all is well out in your area and thanks again for the clarification! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mathlete 3 Posted February 10, 2012 ktom said: Bolzano said: It is a ktom has answered. I'm really hoping this is supposed to be "It is as ktom has answered." As for the ribbing of mathlete, you've got to understand, he and I go back a long way. He knows the game as well, if not better, than I do. But every now and then, he posts questions he knows the answer to because people don't believe him unless they see it answered by someone else on the rules board. So when a question's progress is essentially: "Can I save a character with a dupe during Wildfire?" "No. Since the plot is 'cannot be saved,' you are not allowed to use any effect that would save the character from being killed by Wildfire." "So, if nothing can save, can I still use Iron Mines?" it's a pretty safe bet that mathlete is not asking the question for himself. Thanks Kevin! You da man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
