2 Shadow Enchantresses and The Scourge

[BBSB12 1]

What will happen if the Scourge targets an Asshai character when 2 Shadow Enchantresses (and a chard in Shadows) are in play? Will it lose its military icon or will it have one icon left (+1 Military + 1 Military - 1 Military)?

[dcdennis 39]

 I love it when someone answers their own question in their post. =D

1 + 1 - 1 = 1     

[BBSB12 1]

Hehe...I just show second point of view, while my own is obviously about rounding first. So it's +1+1, rounded to 1, then it's -1 and goes to 0.=)

[dcdennis 39]

 I think I found where you got this 'rounding theory' from. Here is the FAQ entry. Is the bold part what you are basing your theory on? If so I think your logic is flawed.

If this rounding theory were true then, if you took a char with no power icon and 'removed' one, it would unchanged with no power icon, if you then added one, by the rounding theory the net effect would be he would then have that icon, whereby below it states that order of application does not matter, and that char should still be considered to have no icon. 

Lasting Effects Conflict
Even if not triggered at the same time,
multiple Lasting Effects may affect the
same card at the same time. For example: a
character without the Power icon is affected
by two lasting effects. One (such as Slander)
removes a Power icon from the character, and
one (such as Lordship) adds the Power icon to
that character. In this example the two lasting
effects cancel each other, and the character is
left unchanged. The order in which the lasting
effects take place is irrelevant: the net sum
result of all lasting effects is applied to the
character (the net sum of -1 Power icon and
+1 Power icon is 0, thus the character remains
unchanged). A character can never have more
than one icon of a specified kind.

 

 

[Khudzlin 734]

"Rounding" negative values to 0 or multiple icons to 1 always occurs last, after all modifiers have been taken into account. In the situation with The Scourge and 2 Shadow Enchantresses (and at least 1 card in shadows), Asshai characters gain 2 MIL icons from the enchantresses and lose 1 from the Scourge, so they have 1 more MIL icon than printed. That means they will have 1 even if they have none printed and if they have 1 printed, they will still have 1 because extra icons are removed (not that it matters, since icons are checked only for presence, afaik).

[ktom 598]

More to the point, every time you check an icon, STR, etc., you start from scratch - ie, the natural state of the card and all applicable modifiers. You do not start with the last result or the card's current "effective" icon or STR status and add in just the most recent modifier.

It will never matter what order "gains" and "loses" icons effects are applied. But that "1+1=2, round to 1, -1 = 0" situation would be different if you went in the other order, ie "1-1=0, +1 = 1". That's maybe more power, and more analysis, than you want to give a First Player.