2 questions from tonights game.

[dcdennis 39]

1. First snow of winter is played by my opponent during framework plot reveal. I make him change it with M. Tyrell. When the first challenge hits this round, is First Snow's effect still resolved?

 

2. What happens if Meera's popping out of shadows is canceled? Obvious the gold stays paid and nothing is blanked, but is she in or out of shadows? Can it be canceled by something like Sea Sick? 

[ktom 598]

dh098017 said:

1. First snow of winter is played by my opponent during framework plot reveal. I make him change it with M. Tyrell. When the first challenge hits this round, is First Snow's effect still resolved?

You tell me. Is First Snow a lasting effect that activates when the plot is revealed and resolves when the first challenge is declared? Or is it a passive effect that initiates when the first challenge is declared? (Hint: Without the text "when revealed," there is pretty much no possibility that the "when the first challenge is initiated this round..." text will have anything activating it in the "reveal plots" framework window.)

Or look at it another way: If the exact same text as First Snow was on a location, what would happen in the challenge phase if the location were discarded in the marshaling phase?

dh098017 said:

2. What happens if Meera's popping out of shadows is canceled? Obvious the gold stays paid and nothing is blanked, but is she in or out of shadows?

For a normal effect, it's easy to tell because in an effect that says "Do X to do Y," X is the cost and Y is the effect. A cancel says Y never happens, but X stays paid. But sadly, Meera isn't worded like that. She is effectively backwards, saying "Do Y by doing X." 

To tell whether coming out of Shadows and into play is  cost or an effect, ask yourself if her coming out of Shadows is a requirement for anything in that effect to happen. (Note: the "then" part is technically a separate effect.) Even though it is worded differently, paying the gold is the cost you pay, and the benefit you get for paying that cost is bringing her out of Shadows, right? So that means bringing her out of Shadows is an effect, which would be canceled. She stays in Shadows if her triggered effect is canceled.

dh098017 said:

Can it be canceled by something like Sea Sick?

OK, back to the Socratic method because I know you know this. Seasick only cancels triggered effects, right? And what is the definition of a triggered effect? Something that only happens because a player chooses for it to happen, right? 

So, does Meera's "comes out of Shadows" thing count as a triggered effect? (If so, Seasick can cancel it.)

 

(PS - I'm not trying to be a pain in the neck here: I honestly know you know enough about the game to figure a lot of these out on your own. You just have to trust your analysis.)

[dcdennis 39]

 thank you. after a bit a debate we played all three things correctly. just coming here for confirmation.