How does Griff work?

[ktom 598]

Bolzano said:

Miklos said:

 

Griff:

If Griff would be killed, instead attach him to your House Card as your only agenda with the text: "If you do not control more attachments than each opponent, unattach Griff and return him to play.
Response: After a [Targaryen] attachment you control is discarded from play, kneel 1 influence to return it to your hand."

After an attachment I control is discarded from play, it becomes moribund. So, I cannot trigger the response that makes him leave play to my hand. It should contradict the moribund rules exception or be worded as a replacement effect, or am I missing something?

No, you are not missing anything. The Response effect he gains as an agenda is useless as worded. It is almost certainly supposed to be like "Retreat" for attachments, but without the word "instead," you cannot trigger it because doing so would break the moribund rules exception.

I mentioned this to Nate about 5 minutes after the card was spoiled.

[KristoffStark 1]

Bolzano said:

Miklos said:

 

Griff:

If Griff would be killed, instead attach him to your House Card as your only agenda with the text: "If you do not control more attachments than each opponent, unattach Griff and return him to play.
Response: After a [Targaryen] attachment you control is discarded from play, kneel 1 influence to return it to your hand."

 

 

 

After an attachment I control is discarded from play, it becomes moribund. So, I cannot trigger the response that makes him leave play to my hand. It should contradict the moribund rules exception or be worded as a replacement effect, or am I missing something?

As worded, would it not work that the Response is actually to the attachment hitting your discard, not becoming Moribund?  Seen that way, it would not contradict the rule that says a Moribund card may not have its destination changed.  I don't see a problem with that.

[ktom 598]

KristoffStark said:

As worded, would it not work that the Response is actually to the attachment hitting your discard, not becoming Moribund?  Seen that way, it would not contradict the rule that says a Moribund card may not have its destination changed.  I don't see a problem with that.

Well, the rules say that becoming moribund and being placed in the discard pile are the same thing as far as triggering Responses are concerned, so the premise is incorrect.

 

But even without that fact, since the card doesn't hit the discard pile until Step 6 of the window in which it is discarded (being moribund until that time) - after the opportunity to Respond in Step 5 is over - when should you trigger the Response as written if it is "actually to the attachment hitting your discard"?

[KristoffStark 1]

Or no, because in THAT case it would have to be worded: "Return to your hand an Attachment from your Discard pile…"

*sigh*

Dear FFG:
Please word cards so that they don't violate your own base mechanics.

Thanks.