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richsabre

legolas is wrong?

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i was reading up on silvan noldor etc and realised legolas is sindarin, not silvan, despite him coming from a silvan area- mirkwood  FFG have him as silvan- was this intentional? i dont know, perhaps this isnt important, then again it is as silvan tracker doesnt heal him anymore....

despite this i have seen sources that refer to him as silvan of sindarin decent, as thranduil was sindarin

however in the ring goes south he refers to himself being silvan....'we silvan' now this could be a english person raised in US saying us americans....they are still of english decent.

ive read a few forum debates of this but havnt found a proper answer

 again probably confusing things more than they should be but hey...im bored and wanted an interesting topic

anyone have any informed information on this confusing topic

 

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Good catch! I think you're just going to have to be satisfied with being more in the know than most people. You're right about him being Sindarin, I don't think the card game, however, is the place to get into an in depth analysis of the different branches of elves! I think it's surprising that they even put two kinds of elves! I'm looking forward to see how they differentiate the synergy between Noldor and Silvan cards.

 

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Narsil0420 said:

 

Good catch! I think you're just going to have to be satisfied with being more in the know than most people. You're right about him being Sindarin, I don't think the card game, however, is the place to get into an in depth analysis of the different branches of elves! I think it's surprising that they even put two kinds of elves! I'm looking forward to see how they differentiate the synergy between Noldor and Silvan cards.

 

 

 

i think youre right.....from now im just going to take it as he comes from a silvan culture, so hes a silvan card. im really looking forward to elves though, and i agree it wil be interesting to see what differences come into play

oh yeah and while were on this topic, i noticed neither dain nor brand are noble, i would say being kings, they probably should come under the noble string of traits

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Well.. Legolas Greenleaf is the "Prince of the Silvan Elves"... .. . . So it seams that they got it right to me.

 

From Ardra

The son of Thranduil, and so a prince of the Woodland Realm in the northeast of Mirkwood, Legolas was descended from the Sindar, but counted himself one of the Silvan people.

 

and

 

At least, Legolas seems to refer to himself as a Silvan Elf: in Eregion, he says '...the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk...' (The Fellowship of the Ring II 3, The Ring Goes South). This is confusing, because his father Thranduil is elsewhere identified as one of the Sindar. Tolkien touches on this question in his Letters, where he describes Legolas as '...a Woodland Elf, though one of royal and originally Sindarin line.' (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 297, dated 1967, our italics). The explanation for this is found in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn (in Unfinished Tales), where there's a brief account of the arrival of Thranduil's father Oropher among the Silvan Elves of Greenwood the Great. It's made obvious there that Oropher and his small band of Sindar merged themselves completely with the Silvan people of the Wood, leaving behind their Sindarin inheritance. That's why Oropher's grandson Legolas thinks of himself as a Silvan Elf, rather than one of the Sindar.

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booored said:

Well.. Legolas Greenleaf is the "Prince of the Silvan Elves"... .. . . So it seams that they got it right to me.

 

From Ardra

The son of Thranduil, and so a prince of the Woodland Realm in the northeast of Mirkwood, Legolas was descended from the Sindar, but counted himself one of the Silvan people.

 

and

 

At least, Legolas seems to refer to himself as a Silvan Elf: in Eregion, he says '...the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk...' (The Fellowship of the Ring II 3, The Ring Goes South). This is confusing, because his father Thranduil is elsewhere identified as one of the Sindar. Tolkien touches on this question in his Letters, where he describes Legolas as '...a Woodland Elf, though one of royal and originally Sindarin line.' (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 297, dated 1967, our italics). The explanation for this is found in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn (in Unfinished Tales), where there's a brief account of the arrival of Thranduil's father Oropher among the Silvan Elves of Greenwood the Great. It's made obvious there that Oropher and his small band of Sindar merged themselves completely with the Silvan people of the Wood, leaving behind their Sindarin inheritance. That's why Oropher's grandson Legolas thinks of himself as a Silvan Elf, rather than one of the Sindar.

yeah i read up on that beforehand....basically i think technically he is sindarin, but in all other means he is silvan, not that it makes much difference now, but it may if they ever released a card with a sindar trait on

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The elf things are not species, like a bear and a cat. They are like say Americans and English. Both are from the same stock, the same "race" but they are very different people now over time. I see no reason why if they bring out a "sindar" trait it will effect Legolas, as he is basically a immigrant to the Silvan peoples though intermarriage. Just like the "Chinese" who operate the awesome bakery near my house are just as "Australian" as I am.

I think your getting "race" mixed up with what is basically "nationality". There all elves, just different heritages, traditions and stuff.

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yes, essentially.

the different elves come from the 1st age, depending on which groups took the journey to valinor and how far west they passed...the silvan stayed east of the misty mountains and settled in mirkwood, so legolas is as you state....part of two different elven heritages, but still remains an elf all the same, and more importantly if you take the different types as nationality then he is completely silvan

i think though he is in fact both silvan and sindarin, depending on how much you want to look into it, i dont think FFG will release sindar trait anyways, as this will confuse things more than neccesary.

 

 

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I see no reason why we can not see this trait at some point. Also remember there is a strong history in these types of games to release the same cards with slightly different names and different stats / abilities. Eyowen would be a great example of this, they could release a new card version of her, that is the "warrior" version she becomes in the stories. So she has 2 cards, one is a quest mater, the other a attack master. We could very well see a 2nd card for Legolas that has this trait.

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booored said:

I see no reason why we can not see this trait at some point. Also remember there is a strong history in these types of games to release the same cards with slightly different names and different stats / abilities. Eyowen would be a great example of this, they could release a new card version of her, that is the "warrior" version she becomes in the stories. So she has 2 cards, one is a quest mater, the other a attack master. We could very well see a 2nd card for Legolas that has this trait.

good point, also aragorn is a good example of split nationality/traits - going from exiled dunedain ranger, into gondorian king, though the license doesnt go that far (at the moment)

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richsabre said:

though the license doesnt go that far (at the moment)

that sucks so bad hey... they should really try and get the full licence like Decipher had (ahh. Decipher... best card game makers ever) Did you ever play the LoTR Decipher game? It was kinda like this but on super steroids... one of the best CCGs ever imo. You would probably love it. They had the entire work of Tolken to work with as well.

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booored said:

richsabre said:

though the license doesnt go that far (at the moment)

 

that sucks so bad hey... they should really try and get the full licence like Decipher had (ahh. Decipher... best card game makers ever) Did you ever play the LoTR Decipher game? It was kinda like this but on super steroids... one of the best CCGs ever imo. You would probably love it. They had the entire work of Tolken to work with as well.

no that was before i had even knew what a ccg was, ive seen it though im not sure about the limited solo play, and also ive heard it costs a fortune these days

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booored said:

 

it dosn't have solo play, and the company is long dead.. so i see no problem playing it in lackey

 

 

is that possible? playing it in lackey? anyways im never keen on online playing of card games, i always get confused by it. i have enough trouble keeping up with this game

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 lackey is awesome... it even has this lcg. LOL :D

 

and yes, it would cost a fortune to buy ALL the CCG cards (esp editions 15, 17, 18 - don't get me started...) but the most cards are quite cheap, I assure you! :)

ah well, there's only so much time and money... and I think this game is better, because of the artwork, tokens, co-op... don't get me wrong I also love Lotr CCG...

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Vyron said:

 lackey is awesome... it even has this lcg. LOL :D

 

and yes, it would cost a fortune to buy ALL the CCG cards (esp editions 15, 17, 18 - don't get me started...) but the most cards are quite cheap, I assure you! :)

ah well, there's only so much time and money... and I think this game is better, because of the artwork, tokens, co-op... don't get me wrong I also love Lotr CCG...


yeah, ill stick to one game at a time, tempting though getting into another lord of the rings game is, i like to dedicate all my time to just one

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booored said:

The elf things are not species, like a bear and a cat. They are like say Americans and English. Both are from the same stock, the same "race" but they are very different people now over time. I see no reason why if they bring out a "sindar" trait it will effect Legolas, as he is basically a immigrant to the Silvan peoples though intermarriage. Just like the "Chinese" who operate the awesome bakery near my house are just as "Australian" as I am.

I think your getting "race" mixed up with what is basically "nationality". There all elves, just different heritages, traditions and stuff.

Really agree with booored on this one. "Sindar" is the name of one of the Three Kindred of the Eldar; also known as "Grey-Elves". These are the only elves that did not return with the Eldar to the Undying Lands early in the First Age (aside from the East Elves or Lesser Elves in the East but that's another story). Wood-Elves are Silvan but are from the Sindarin Kindred.

Intermarriage, as booored put it, is a good reference. Take Celeborn: he is Sindar but he married Galadriel; she's Noldor (Noldor being the second Kindred). This mixing of the second and third Kindreds happened when the Noldor returned to Middle-Earth in chase of Morgoth during the War of the Great Jewels. Beleriand, which is where these Elves dwealt, was sunk into the sea as Morgoth was overthrown and the Elves migrated: Celeborn and his followers traveled across the Misty Mountains to the vale of the Anduin and the forests there (Lothlorien). Thranduil and his followers settled in Greenwood the Great (now MIrkwood) and others that stayed in Lindon were followers of Gil-galad (Noldor).

Basically, to sum it up, Silvan are Sindarin Elves :)

 

 

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richsabre said:

oh yeah and while were on this topic, i noticed neither dain nor brand are noble, i would say being kings, they probably should come under the noble string of traits

Agree here, also. If Noble was going to be on any character, it should very well be on Dain! Not only was he the leader of the Iron Hill dwarves but after Thorin II died in the Battle of the Five Armies, Dain became the King under the Mountain AND was of Durin's Folk. Of note, Dain was a wise and just King and was a great ally with King Brand of Dale. He died while defending the slain body of his good friend at the foot of Erebor in the Battle of Dale.

C'mon FFG, Dain deserved the Noble trait! :)

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gamestar10 said:

richsabre said:

 

oh yeah and while were on this topic, i noticed neither dain nor brand are noble, i would say being kings, they probably should come under the noble string of traits

 

 

Agree here, also. If Noble was going to be on any character, it should very well be on Dain! Not only was he the leader of the Iron Hill dwarves but after Thorin II died in the Battle of the Five Armies, Dain became the King under the Mountain AND was of Durin's Folk. Of note, Dain was a wise and just King and was a great ally with King Brand of Dale. He died while defending the slain body of his good friend at the foot of Erebor in the Battle of Dale.

C'mon FFG, Dain deserved the Noble trait! :)

yes none of this matters at the moment but when an event card comes out that says 'blah blah a noble character' then if i was dain id be feeling a little sad and left out sad.gif

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