Printed Skill vs Demon Lover

[Yipe 251]

A quick question regarding Demon Lover's skill reduction ability, and the abilities of characters like Dangerous Inmate or Harbinger of Insanity.

Harbinger of Insanity can take control of a character with printed skill 2 or lower.  If I use Demon Lover's -2 skill reduction on a character with printed skill of 4, can I now target that character with the Harbinger's ability, or do the effects not combine due to the word "printed"?

[AUCodeMonkey 0]

Demon Lover reduces skill by 2, not printed skill. There are cards that lower either printed skill or printed cost (don't remember off the top of my head) so the Harbinger wouldn't be able to take control of something with printed skill of 4.

[dboeren1 294]

Printed skill is just what is says, what is physically inked on the card.  Nothing in the game I know of modifies any form of printed anything.

So no, Demon Lover won't help any abilities that trigger off "printed skill", just those that trigger off "skill".

[Yipe 251]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

[TheProfessor 4]

 Like A Moth lowers a characters printed skill to 0.

I don't know if there are currently any other cards that modify printed skill.

[dboeren1 294]

Ah, good catch.  So there is at least one.

[Penfold3 0]

We know from the precedent with Insanity "printed" literally means the ink on the card. Any effect that seeks to alter or modify a printed element does so only in regards to the games reference in that elements calculation not reference. In other words Moth reducing someone's printed skill to 0 does not change the ink so any effect looking at printed anything will still see the exact same number that is present on the card. Moth is worded that way so as to clearly not affect any other card or card effect that is boosting the characters skill so anything that involves calculating the current skill of the card would read 0 (due to moth) + and - any additional effects.

The word printed in relation to games like this is always tricky, and different games handle them differently, but all FFG LCG games have the truism that all references to printed on any given card will always reference the ink on the card, regardless of any current effect. Damon has said this in reference to both CoC and AGoT and I heard Hata say something almost identical in reference to Warhammer.

[jhaelen 98]

Penfold said:

In other words Moth reducing someone's printed skill to 0 does not change the ink so any effect looking at printed anything will still see the exact same number that is present on the card.

I'll only believe this after it's been added to the official errata. This is a very counter-intuitive interpretation.

I see where you're coming from and you may even be right but no sane person will come to this conclusion after reading the rules. If a card effect literally says it changes the printed skill why shouldn't it change the printed skill?! What about the golden rule?

If your interpretation should turn out to be correct, the card text of Like a Moth must be errataed.

[Penfold3 0]

 Because the golden rule does not change reality and we already have in the faq the statement that printed refers only to the ink on the card. 

[TheProfessor 4]

 I think Like a Moth needs an errata to read something like "...gets -X skill where X is the printed skill..." because as the card is printed it contradicts the ruling about printed things in the FAQ.

[jhaelen 98]

Penfold said:

 

 Because the golden rule does not change reality and we already have in the faq the statement that printed refers only to the ink on the card. 

 

Maybe I need to quote the Golden Rule?

 

If the rules text of a card contradicts the text of this rulebook, the
rules on the card take precedence (with a few exceptions, as listed
in the rules).

If anyone wants to convince me I'm wrong, I think I'd need to see the reference where 'printed skill' is listed as an exception to the golden rule. The FAQ on 'printed' currently lacks that exception.

[TheProfessor 4]

 This needs an official ruling and should be included in the next FAQ.