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Beren Eoath

WFRP 4E Specilation

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I don't know how many of You heared it but recently we are getting a lot of rumours about the end of 3rd edition.

One of the reasons for that in my opinion is the silience from FFG about the plans for supplement. We know only about one that is going to be avaliable in comming in january or 1Q 2012.

Second reason is that after the 4th and 5th Rank is nothing more and having Epic enemies looks like a dead end of this series.

Third reason there were changes made in the designers department of WFRP 3e. Jay Little is not any more the leading Designer of the series. Daniel Lovat Clark is now runnig the game.

Forth reason setting the main produt in Reilkand closed the roads to other countries like Bretinnia or Kislev to be playable. (in some folks ideas).

Fifth reason the design of the game looks like it closed many doors for designers of future supplement. (I do not know how should I understand that)

I do not know how much truth is in those rumour but as much as I like 3rd edition I can't shake of the feeling it at it's ending.

So regard less of this if you agre with me or not I made this topic to gather in one pleace all the speculation I found about WFRP 4e.

There's not to much about his but still it's worth to know it.

Here's the list of the most importent rumours about WFRP 4e:

- the core set will be 3 books (Player, GM, World & Monster) in a box

- the mechanic will be a cross-over of WFRP 3e and D&D/Dark Heresy

- there will be a career system based on leveling your hero with ability trees. This means that you will play only one career and level it up. Somethig similar that you can know from D&D or DH

- there will be custom dice (so you will need to buy a special set of dice to play the game or maybe we will be getting them with the core books)

- there will be a new style or recharge for actions (I do not know how I should understand that)

- actions will be cataloged in special types (maybe they meaned melee, ranged, blesing and so on?)

- the mechanic will cover cards as optional version (all rules will be in books)

- the dice mechanic will be similar to this from 3rd edition so the dice will not only show you the success or failure but more side effects as well

- there will be 6 playable races in the core set (that's interesting becouse we will have 6 races after the Hero's Call)

- the game will be released in 2013

That's all for now that I could found but still I think it's worth to know what could happen.

Still we all should look at it as a rumour and nothing more until the day FFG says officialy that there will a WFRP 4th edition.

Cheers

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Add this rumor

 

If they release a 4th edition in 2013 it is rumored that an angry mob of WFRP fans who between 2009 and 2012 spent more then 400$ in the 3rd edition will ransack and burn down all FFG warehouses

I don't know if the source is reliablethough

 

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@Yepesnopes - fans of 2nd edition could say the same. I don't know if You remember but I do that when FFG got the licence they where askes about the future od WFRP 2e. And you know what they anwsered? FFG promised all WFRP 2e fans that they will continiue to publish that edtion. They published 1 or 2 books and the line deid. And FFG published WFRP 3e. So the same can be with WFRP 3e and nothing will change that if FFG wants to make WFRP 4e they will do it. So the angry mob talk is not in pleace. This is bisnes and bisnes must make money.

The funny thing for me is that if the rumours will be truth that many of fans of WFRP 2nd will come back to the game. I think even they will buy it. Abd that bring us once again to the piont - bisnes is bisnes and must make money.

I don't know is the source is reliable but still IN EVERY RUMOUR IS A SEED OF TRUTH!

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Yepesnopes said:

If they release a 4th edition in 2013 it is rumored that an angry mob of WFRP fans who between 2009 and 2012 spent more then 400$ in the 3rd edition will ransack and burn down all FFG warehouses

I don't know if the source is reliablethough

 

More reliable than OP, I wager.

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I don't actually think that alot of your speculations are entirely accurate. Alot of them could also be factored in as later additions to 3e, in effect doing an ever-popular 3.5 ed. re-jig.

 

I think 3e is doing fairly strongly to be honest, and is not bracketing itself in in the way that you seem to suggest. Plus now would be great time to release a campaign that can span three or four careers.

 

Many of the other RPG lines haven't had much in the way of release schedules either, I don't view this as a major pronouncement of doom.

 

Finally, business is indeed business, so does fantasy flight REALLY want to risk alienating a core demographic AGAIN to release an untried product to, I assume, draw in players they alienated by bringing out 3e. More importantly, I hate to mention the "economic climate" but most people are sitting tight rather than throwing the dice so to speak, and that's the strongest indicator for me.

 

That and I will firebomb the holy hell out of the place if they pull another edition out of their asses.

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Do you all remember how many people claimed that if FFG end WFRP 2e they will never buy another WFRP  from them? So I understand that you all say that when this will be true that it will be unfair becouse you bought WFRP 3e and don't need another edition. But look at it from the perspective of WFRP 2e. Fans of that edition also did not want a new one, they also bought many expansions and lost that way money. So such a arguments like it's unfair, I don't like it and so on are  pointless. Besides with all that material we have to this poiont You can play this game many years to come and must not buy anything new. Not even WFRP 4e when it comes up.

In my opinion, and I did not found it on the net so it's just my thought, FFG could make a WFRP 4e to buy some players from Wotc. Specialy when there are rumours of D&D 5e plans. Wotc have not confirmed officialy it but many fans say that many of decisions recently made by Wotc confirmes that. So it would be a battle for customer.

I don't agre about 3.5e becouse looking at those rumours You can see that there's a diferent career system mentioned. Fewer careers and ability trees. So that's something completly diferent from that what we have in 3e.

Ah, yes the economic. Hmm, like I said bisnes is bisnes. I worked in a games shop and I have many friend that own such a shop or work in one. So I know how this bisnes works from, let's call it, the shop side. So I know how the statistic looks like. I must say that - RPG are not much bestsellers. Many peple offten buy just the core set and I really mean JUST THE CORE SET. So when a new system is comming many of them buy it but not the expansions. Expansions are bought by only a few players or I can say even GMs. Besides in the last rumour theres a date 2013 so everything is possible. One of the best selling games and board games then card games, after that come minatures games (WFB or W40k) and after that at the very end RPGs. That's how it looks like in Europe and nothing will change that.

And about the demographic thing. The way I see it many new players would be drawn to the system and many older that played 1st or 2nd edition also if the game would be well designed. Many players that I know played 1st and 2nd WFRP but hate the 3e but they are still playing DH,RT or DW and even they are interested in Black Crusade. The same players also play D&D 4e becouse like they say the cards there are optional. So if WFRP 4e would be designed for them and had all that we injoy from 3e everybody would be happy. If WFRP 4e would look like that I personaly would still buy it even if I own all WFRP 3e products.

 

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 I would rather them release an updated players guide with several tweaks and clarifications to the system and cards, that still easily works with the current set.  

 

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It's just a rumour and I feel like everybody is exaggerateing. Stop!

We do not know the source of this rumour for sure and if it a reliable one.

So at this point there's nothing to worry becouse WFRP 3e is still comming up.

We should wait for Hero's Call and what FFG will announce after it.

Cheers

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Beren Eoath said:

It's just a rumour and I feel like everybody is exaggerateing. Stop!

We do not know the source of this rumour for sure and if it a reliable one.

Well, you started the rumour here. So at least YOU should know where you got it from?!

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Massaker said:

Beren Eoath said:

 

It's just a rumour and I feel like everybody is exaggerateing. Stop!

We do not know the source of this rumour for sure and if it a reliable one.

 

 

Well, you started the rumour here. So at least YOU should know where you got it from?!

Exactly.

The list reads like the communitys idle speculation on what a 4th edition might or might not contain, but that doesn't make it a rumour, that's idle speculation.

For it to be a rumour it has to have some, even tenuous link to something FFG have been involved in - be it a play tester claiming to be invovled, or someone who knows someone at FFG, or even someone who knows someone who knows someone at FFG!

I think at lot of your reasons for thinking a 4th ed is on the cards is spurious logic at best, but for all I know there could we be a 4th edition being designed. I would certainly think that FFG will be considering the best plans for using the licence going forward and considering whether the core set is in need of an update/re-write, but considering the errata in the 40K line of books, IMO its those lines that need revising first.

 

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Beren Eoath said:

Do you all remember how many people claimed that if FFG end WFRP 2e they will never buy another WFRP  from them?

Yep, I do, but your account is quite clearly a new account, so were you not a member of the FFG community in those days, were you a lurker, or did you go by a different nickname back then, or are you talking about discussions on a different board?

 

Just curious.

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Sorry Beren, but your posts confuse me.

First, you bring forth rumors without giving any insight where you got them from. You use the "we"-form so one could get the impression that there is an elightened circle knowing stuff that others don't.

Beren Eoath said:

I don't agre about 3.5e becouse looking at those rumours You can see that there's a diferent career system mentioned. Fewer careers and ability trees. So that's something completly diferent from that what we have in 3e.

This is the best part. Here you want to give your speculations and thoughts about a possible 4th edition more weight by pointing out to the same unvarified  rumors you came up with. At the end you get people worried and now you're telling people to stop being so jumpy.

Putting out the fire with gasoline comes to mind. You try your best to scare the s*** out of people and wonder why people react the way they do.

Sorry, but this busybody-approach is is annoying. enfadado.gif

 

 

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pumpkin said:

 

Beren Eoath said:

 

Do you all remember how many people claimed that if FFG end WFRP 2e they will never buy another WFRP  from them?

 

 

Yep, I do, but your account is quite clearly a new account, so were you not a member of the FFG community in those days, were you a lurker, or did you go by a different nickname back then, or are you talking about discussions on a different board?

 

Just curious.

 

 

I'm new here. At the time of 2nd WFRP I was a lurker here so I remember that time. I made this account becouse of the double card in Lure Of Power (Good Witch Hunter/Bad Witch Hunter) and that's the only reason. I don't like to write to much on forums becouse it takes a lot of time and it's addictive and I don't have much time for such things.

In times when FFG announced WFRP 3e I was working in a games shop so I could hear even some face to face discusions about WFRP 2e vs WFRP 3e. And I can clearly remember how much confusion was there. And how many people disliked the decision of FFG about making a new edition.

Personaly, from my expirience, I can tell that almost in every situation  (99%) when a company is announcing a new edition of something people are always complaining. It does not matter if it's FFG, Wotc or any other big company that's produce games such like card/board/RPG. So it does not matter how good the new edition will be people will always complain becouse they need to buy something new. The funny thing for me is that they are complaining and then they buy the new edition. So IF FFG WILL ANNOUNCE AND PUBLISH WFRP 4E THEN I WILL BUY IT FOR SURE!!!!!!

Those rumours are from french community forums that were translatred by my friend from France. But I don't know who posted it there.

Some days ago someone also mentioned WFRP 4e on this web page.

Oh I found it - http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=149&efcid=3&efidt=590295&efpag=0

But I can believe that FFG can be now working on WFRP 4e, designing it and so on. And after they design it they will playtest it and then annouce it.

@Treehorn - My point is not to annoying people but to ask how much truth can be in those. I like the WFRP 3e and I play it from the beggining. I have all the products for this edition that they released so far. So those rumours concern me. But still I think that with all that stuff that we have to this point we can play the game for many years. And if FFG will ever produce WFRP 4e - then I will buy it!

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lol you must be joking... releasing 4th ed. in 2013 LOL

 

They finally have a product where they can easily add to it (cards etc.). It's the best setup they have ever had for making money. The cost of making a new edition just isn't worth it.

 

Unless of course they just release 4th ed. as books using the same stuff we already have, just with new rules - which would be very easy. That could work.

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I'm very new here, in fact I've only just received the Warhammer 3e Boxed Set in the post a few days back, so I don't know too much about Fantasy Flight Games or their policies on updating games.

However, I do know about business and marketing and the bottom line is Fantasy Flight Games are a business, ultimately looking to make money as well as produce great games.  They do that by satisfying their existing customer base and attracting new ones.  

With so much scope to produce further scenarios and rule supplements, as other posters have stated it would be madness to alienate the existing base by even starting to talk about a fourth edition a mere three years after a major revision.  

All in all I find this a strange post, and a relatively pointless piece of speculation given it would kill sales of the third edition stone dead if they admitted something else was in the pipeline.

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So far, only 5 products have been translated in French : Player's Guide, Game Master's Guide, Player's Vault, Game Master's Vault and Dice Pack.

Thus I'd rather FFG would wait a LOOOOONG time before releasing a 4th Edition. corazon_roto.gif

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One of the reasons for that in my opinion is the silience from FFG about the plans for supplement. We know only about one that is going to be avaliable in comming in january or 1Q 2012.

FFG has been pretty quiet about upcoming WFRP3 releases for over a year, and yet has continued to release new supplements. Really, since Gencon 2010 and the "Shifting Through Shadows" preview that Jay put together.

Second reason is that after the 4th and 5th Rank is nothing more and having Epic enemies looks like a dead end of this series.

Every RPG has a "level cap" that is eventually achieved. Dont' forget, in WFRP3 PCs can "advance" laterally into other careers too. So, a Rank 5 PC who reaches Rank 6, could transition into a different Avanced or even Basic career and start a whole new profession if they wanted.

Third reason there were changes made in the designers department of WFRP 3e. Jay Little is not any more the leading Designer of the series. Daniel Lovat Clark is now runnig the game.

This doesn't really make much of a difference. Yes, Jay was a vocal and driving force for WFRP3. Dan was also a crucial player in the advent of the new edition too, however. Jay hasn't been a direct part of WFRP3 for a long time now, and WFRP3 has still had a lot of support and releases since then.

Forth reason setting the main produt in Reilkand closed the roads to other countries like Bretinnia or Kislev to be playable. (in some folks ideas).

Hero's Call had been said to include regional human bonuses, and there is nothing to suggest future expansions for other nations won't happen. The plan, as stated by FFG, was to start/focus in a small region of the Empire and gradually expand the area, which they have done.


Fifth reason the design of the game looks like it closed many doors for designers of future supplement. (I do not know how should I understand that)

I have no idea what you mean by this. "closed many doors for designers of future supplements" how?
 

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Unless I'm missing "a reliable source" this thread is simply starting a rumour based on speculation, reading things into FFG's slowed pace of announcements from the pace originally set.

I don't think that is very reliable.  Maybe it means slowed pace, maybe it means line petering out or maybe it just means they had a burst of stuff getting it out the door and now are slowing down.  I'm okay with a major supplementadventure box once a quarter if that is what it boils down to.  It's also possible that after the widespread criticism of editing etc. they are taking more care with that - they have advertised for a new technical writer.  They may also be thinking about how to package line to make more money (e.g., more products each player at table would buy the way WOTC has its class-themed mini packs of things).

Rob

 

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dvang said:

One of the reasons for that in my opinion is the silience from FFG about the plans for supplement. We know only about one that is going to be avaliable in comming in january or 1Q 2012.

FFG has been pretty quiet about upcoming WFRP3 releases for over a year, and yet has continued to release new supplements. Really, since Gencon 2010 and the "Shifting Through Shadows" preview that Jay put together.

Second reason is that after the 4th and 5th Rank is nothing more and having Epic enemies looks like a dead end of this series.

Every RPG has a "level cap" that is eventually achieved. Dont' forget, in WFRP3 PCs can "advance" laterally into other careers too. So, a Rank 5 PC who reaches Rank 6, could transition into a different Avanced or even Basic career and start a whole new profession if they wanted.

Third reason there were changes made in the designers department of WFRP 3e. Jay Little is not any more the leading Designer of the series. Daniel Lovat Clark is now runnig the game.

This doesn't really make much of a difference. Yes, Jay was a vocal and driving force for WFRP3. Dan was also a crucial player in the advent of the new edition too, however. Jay hasn't been a direct part of WFRP3 for a long time now, and WFRP3 has still had a lot of support and releases since then.

Forth reason setting the main produt in Reilkand closed the roads to other countries like Bretinnia or Kislev to be playable. (in some folks ideas).

Hero's Call had been said to include regional human bonuses, and there is nothing to suggest future expansions for other nations won't happen. The plan, as stated by FFG, was to start/focus in a small region of the Empire and gradually expand the area, which they have done.


Fifth reason the design of the game looks like it closed many doors for designers of future supplement. (I do not know how should I understand that)

I have no idea what you mean by this. "closed many doors for designers of future supplements" how?
 

 

Once again, Dvang says stuff I would have said, only better. And Nicer.

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Beren Eoath said:

One of the reasons for that in my opinion is the silience from FFG about the plans for supplement. We know only about one that is going to be avaliable in comming in january or 1Q 2012.

Second reason is that after the 4th and 5th Rank is nothing more and having Epic enemies looks like a dead end of this series.

Forth reason setting the main produt in Reilkand closed the roads to other countries like Bretinnia or Kislev to be playable. (in some folks ideas).

Fifth reason the design of the game looks like it closed many doors for designers of future supplement. (I do not know how should I understand that)

- the mechanic will be a cross-over of WFRP 3e and D&D/Dark Heresy

- there will be a career system based on leveling your hero with ability trees. This means that you will play only one career and level it up. Somethig similar that you can know from D&D or DH

- there will be custom dice (so you will need to buy a special set of dice to play the game or maybe we will be getting them with the core books)

- actions will be cataloged in special types (maybe they meaned melee, ranged, blesing and so on?)

Well, I can accept that lack of news about supplements can suggest the end of a game. Not necessarily though, especially with FFG who are often very quiet about things and then go "Ta Da!" with something long after you think they had given up on a game.

Setting it initially in the Empire closed access to other kingdoms? Why? WFRP has always seen the Empire as its core.Hell, it's the core place in the Warhammer World (the main story being of the Empire's struggle for survival in the face of Chaos). However, it doesn't stop people running it in other places (the lack of background for some places aside). There is no mechanical differences between hitting someone with a sword in the Empire to doing it in Bretonnia.

I could see the arguement that the design of the game does cause constraints. Eventually things might get out of hand (say the problem with higher ranks you mentioned) and eventually you are going to run out of effects you can create with cards. When a games company can no longer produce new material for a game 1) many players lose interest and 2) the publisher tends to look to ways to generate more demand so often think of a new edition or something similar.

A cross-over of 3rd edition and Dark Heresy? How does that even work? They are very different systems in mechanics.

Leveled careers? Erk... don't like that, at least for WFRP. Wizards aside, the WFRP world is much more flexible than the Imperium, at least for adventurers. The Empire is a more dynamic place than the Imperium, and it is entering a period where the wealthy non-noble classes are starting to jockey for power with the traditional power structures. Those looking to get ahead (which adventurers often are) just shouldn't be as restricted as the careers in Dark Heresy, which is set in a stagnant decaying setting, where people are generally expected to accept their place in society.

I have to say I currently agree with the consensus on this thread. Doesn't seem likely at the moment (unless it is just a planned 3.5 or something), and the rumours seem more like speculation than actual information on the future.

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I think that there are two more reasons for this rumour:

- there are no reprint plans for the series

- the sytuation in WFRP department is similar to that of D&D in Wotc. They are some changes in the departments, people are going away or changeing pleaces. And the line is not so supported as it used to be in case of WFRP 3e. Also the lack of upcoming products is also a bad omen.

Based on that  that a few days ago the rumour about D&D5e was confirmed I think that in this rumour could also hide some truth in it. Wotc are saying that at this years GenCon they will tell more about the D&D 5e. In my opinion D&D 5e will be published in 2013 or 2014.

Maybe FFG is making WFRP 4e,  who knows? Maybe we will hear something at this years GenCon also just like the fans of D&D.

 D&D 4e is also not so old system just like WFRP 3e and it's still getting the 5e. So I will be a "bad" mystic  or a "bad" seer ;) but I think that there is a large chance that we will hear about WFRP 4e at GenCon 2012. Just like the last year we have heared about some big suprises like Descent 2ed, Rex or WizWar. GenCon could be a good place to ask about the future of WFRP or to hear about it. But till GenCon there's a couple of good months. We all have to wait and see what the future brings.

Cheers

 

PS. I don't know how many of you heared about it the Wotc will start testing the D&D 5e in few months so at GenCon they can say more correct thing about the game.

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I don't foresee a true "4th Edition" being release for quite some time, if ever under Fantasy Flight's banner at least. Now a spiffy "repackaging" of the core materials might be something that is developed down the road, much in the same way the core hardcovers "repackaged" the core boxed set stuff. So if anything Fantasy Flight might release a hardcover tome down the line that would include the core rules plus any relevant material that has been released since the original hardcovers.

I would personally like to see FF release a "collectors edition" of WFRP down the road. See the recent Black Crusade and Deathwatch collectors sets that were made available.

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It is hard to compare D&D to WFRP.  Perhaps the largest impediment is that Hasbro/WoTC owns D&D and the world.  FFG does not not own Warhammer, GW does.  Licensing is a large hurdle to deal with.  From what I recall, the WFRP3e edition and design had significant of input from GW ... quite notably in the area of "not being the same as 1e/2e" and being something different.  I expect trying to release an entire new version of WFRP would require additional/new licensing agreements, assuming GW is even ok with the creation of a new version.

Regarding changes in the departments ... what are you talking about? Are you privy to something we aren't? Jay hasn't been a direct participant in WFRP3 for over a year. They have brought some additional people in to work on WFRP3 shortly after that.  Otherwise, there hasn't been changes that I am aware of.  That's a long time, so unless you know about some *recent* personnel changes regarding WFRP3 employees, you shouldn't use this as an excuse to suggest the downfall of WFRP3.

As far as I know, there is no "lack of upcoming products".  All there is, is a "lack of information on upcoming products".  That does not mean that there aren't products in the works being designed/tested. It just means that FFG has not told the public about them.  We were extremely lucky that Jay gave us a year-long (plus) "preview" of their plans and upcoming supplements as a roadmap.  They have not done so since, and don't typically do that for most of their products until shortly before its release.  We have just gotten info and previews of Hero's Call, which hasn't been released yet.  We won't likely get the next until after Hero's Call is actually released and in stores... and I wouldn't expect right away.  That does not mean there is nothing being developed, though.

Personally, I think WFRP3 will be supported for quite a while, and FFG has no plans to dump the system for a 4th edition any time soon ... and I see no evidence to say otherwise.

 

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dvang said:

...


Fifth reason the design of the game looks like it closed many doors for designers of future supplement. (I do not know how should I understand that)

I have no idea what you mean by this. "closed many doors for designers of future supplements" how?
 

It does.

Whilst you can write adventures and such like you are largely limited to the cards and items avaialble - and those available in the core set in particular. Unless you have the capability to produce add on cards and components to go with your adventure or supplement.

Examples:
If I wanted to write an adventure set in Khemri I need Tomb Lord stand ups special powers cards and a whole host of other cards counters and what nots. Sure you can reuse or modify stuff - aka use general magic attacks for the Liche lords etc. but a lot of the atmosphere is lost.

Compare this to an adventure for Dark Heresy that heavily used Necrons where all I need to do is detail any new rules and powers etc. in the text itself. you can write stuff in a docuemnt a lot easier than you can produce new cards to go with the WFRP system.

It is not impossible - many a good adventure can be done with the standard set. It just makes it dificult to innovate or be creative with the foes and locations etc.

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