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willmanx

number of players and difficulty scaling

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I'm afraid to say that this game seems to be unbalanced in matters of difficulty and number of players. The more the players, the harder the game...

In that game, you draw 2 cards, you immediatly play 1 card and you should not play more than 1 card outside of your turn to keep your health (except if you've got one of the 3 drawing cards).

The problem is when you increase the number of players, you also increase the time you have to stand against the locusts between your differents turn of play where you may heal/draw and play.

  • A solo game is an easy travel.
  • A 2 players game is a fun and challenging bro-adventure.
  • A 3 players game is a tough and really daunting journey.
  • A 4 players game is a total chaotic mess.

 

I really don't manage to win for example Belly of The Beast or the China Shop with 4 players. At 3 players, It's more possible but really the hardest way !!!

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It would be interesting to count our statistics on each adventure, depending on the number of players :

Total game played 12

Emergence : 2 players = 3 victories ; 4 players = 1 victory

China Shop : 3 players = 5 defeats

Belly of the Beast : 3 players = 2 defeats ; 4 players = 1 defeat

 

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What are your results ?

EMERGENCE

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players : 3 victories
  • 3 players :
  • 4 players : 1 victory

CHINA SHOP

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players :
  • 3 players : 5 defeats
  • 4 players :

BELLY OF THE BEATS

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players : 1 victory
  • 3 players : 2 defeats
  • 4 players : 1 defeat

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What are your results ?

EMERGENCE

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players : 3 victories
  • 3 players :
  • 4 players : 1 victory

CHINA SHOP

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players :
  • 3 players : 5 defeats
  • 4 players :

BELLY OF THE BEATS

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players : 1 victory
  • 3 players : 2 defeats
  • 4 players : 1 defeat

ROADBLOCKS

  • 1 player :
  • 2 players :
  • 3 players : 1 victory
  • 4 players :

I have a rule question about roadblocks : during step 2 of the mission, after you've unlocked level 2 or 3, do you finally explore that level following standard rules with all the tiles in one and creature generation (since step 1 has different exploration and generation rules) ? That's how we did but I'm not sure : we play the french edition and the traduction isn't very accurate on that aspect of the mission.

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Our record is in total 18 wins and 16 loses.....this includes every mission. we have played some with 2 players, some with 3 and 4..... so as you can see it is almost a 50-50 for us, which hasnt been too bad at all.   Frustrating at times..but fun overall!

we found out that in order to win you really have to take it slow slow, work as a group, plan ahead each move, delegate who is going to do what and mover where, etc etc....that is the only way to win....then leave luck to the dice to get the rolls you need! Use as many SIGHT TIGHT as you can to fill up...try to keep the weak behind the lines and in cover..etc etc.

 

 

 

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willmanx said:

I'm afraid to say that this game seems to be unbalanced in matters of difficulty and number of players. The more the players, the harder the game...

I seem to recall this being the case in Doom as well, although in that game I found it to be a refreshing twist on traditional expectations.  Since Doom has a survival horror aspect to it, the fact that it got harder with more players helped to maintain the level of suspense, which in turn kept the game nail-bitingly exciting.

Considering that Gears of War has a similar vibe in the vein of "oh my god we're all gonna die" I can't say I'm terribly disappointed to hear this.  Especially for a co-op game that needs to stay challenging to stay entertaining.  I am, indeed, quite happy about this news and look forward to owning the game that much more because of it.

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samruiz123 said:

Our record is in total 18 wins and 16 loses.....this includes every mission. we have played some with 2 players, some with 3 and 4..... so as you can see it is almost a 50-50 for us, which hasnt been too bad at all.   Frustrating at times..but fun overall!

we found out that in order to win you really have to take it slow slow, work as a group, plan ahead each move, delegate who is going to do what and mover where, etc etc....that is the only way to win....then leave luck to the dice to get the rolls you need! Use as many SIGHT TIGHT as you can to fill up...try to keep the weak behind the lines and in cover..etc etc.. 

 

 

 

I played some more games. With more players we needed more expérience. Nice advices. I add you must try not to spend more than one card between your turns, except with some help from a buddy to extra draw or really extrême situations. Try to have 4 cards before drawing (5 if marcus)

 

coopération is the key. Card managment is the challenge. Amazing game. 

 

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My copy is in transit now, and this is a very interesting post. I watched on youtube someone play China Shop 2-player and it seemed like a third of the time someone was crawling around on the ground, mostly because where one person was down, two monsters were shooting the other. I couldn't imagine 3 or 4 AIs going off with one man left standing. Seems to me the same thing happens in Death Angel: the more units you lose too soon, the much less likely you will succeed (knowing this, I take risks to keep every man alive, and if a MUST, throw an ordinary team member under the swarm bus; my success is about 67%, but that's a diff story...). Gears is not like Death Angel because you cannot throw anyone under the bus: you feel the loss no matter what because the AI stays constant according to player amount, not blip and spawn cards.

Therefore, I can fully understand keeping four or five cards in hand at all times and traveling together with a plan is more in-demand. When I have the game in my hands, I will test some of these theories and if maybe the game needs a house rule to make, I will share my thoughts for praise and criticism.  I know some of my friends would think crawling around the ground ("Jinkies, where's my glasses?") during warfare is not fun. I will most definitely post my victories and defeats here with normal rules.

It could be worse, Willmanx: you could be playing on Insane Difficulty :P

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Emergence played solo is frustratingly difficult. Locusts keep spawing at every wrong turn once you've reached room #2 in the map, and facing a wave of 2 wretches, 2 drones and 2 boomers all alone... well, it's a really really scary scene.

Two times in a row I've been blasted to pieces in room #3, while third time a long cat-and-mouse battle kept going in the last room until I managed to draw to locusts in room #3 and then run away from them and seal that thrice-dmaned spawning point. A lucky boomshot cleared my escape route and finally I managed to complete the mission.

 

The same mission played with three other gamers... it's difficult, as the locusts gain more activations, higher starting troops, and even more spawning cards, but coordinating movements and attacks with other COGs really pays up, and rolling poorly once in a while has not the same catastrophically devastating effects of the solo game.

So far it's 1 loss (first time playing, poor coordination and some serious mistakes) to 1 win once we got all the pieces figured out properly.

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So far:

Emergence Day 2 players: 1 defeat (we played it the wrong way - we didn't seal all the emergence holes in mission setup and it was our first game so no wonder we got smoked)

Emergence Day 3 players: 1 victory

China Shop: 3 players: 1 victory

No 4 player games yet. I can see how it might seem harder at first and to an extent it probably is. I kind of think with a shift in tactics it would be do-able though.  ie: using the card that lets someone else play an order card (to move back, get in to cover, draw cards), really focus on closing emergence holes, paying attention to make sure people always have a guard card to play off turn and ideally a dodge action card to play if they get attacked. Basically the kinds of things that are good to think about doing in 2 player games and are fairly helpful in 3 player games are probably essential in 4 player games.

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Win-loss records per mission.

Emergence: 10-1
China Shop: 3-3
Belly of the Beast: 6-0
Roadblocks: 3-4
Scattered: 1-1

Working my way through Scattered at the moment. Four plays of Emergence have been 1-COG games (once with each individual COG), rest have all been 2-COG games (solo or with a friend). Only loss in Emergence would've/could've/should've been a win, but with just one Wretch remaining, I went for the kill, instead of first reviving the other COG, failed to kill it and got dropped. Had I revived, the two COGs could've ping-ponged the Wretch until the end: always make it attack the COG who just had his turn, so next turn the surviving COG draws 2 cards, uses one to revive, one to attack and he'll be the target this turn.

Similar deal in Scattered yesterday, should've moved Cole one or two areas further so when that Firefight AI card came up, instead of 2 Grinder, 5 Drone and Ticker (yeah sorpresa.gif ), would've faced fewer Locusts and more than likely would've won. I play China Shop before the FAQ, meaning could only attack the Berserker after she had first been wounded with the Hammer of Dawn, not a fan of the pistol-pinging ruling from the FAQ.

I also keep stats of chainsaw and bolo sealing percentages.

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Played China Shop solo, twice: 1 loss, 1 win.

First game went smooth (a bit too much, thanks to some good luck with the dice) till the last area, when I just recovered the Hammer of Dawn before the Berserk and two Wretches ganged up on me and went for an overkill, despite my dodge reaction card(s).

Second game had an harder time pressing forward - different layout - and managed to seal all the emergence holes in the last two rooms, preventing any locust spawning in the last rounds of the game. The Berserk was easily out-maneuvered and dispatched.

 

I can see how the follow reaction shall be really vital when playing this mission with some pals, especially after a Roadie Run card. Also, bolo grenades work wonders when dealing with massed Wretches/Drones, even though they should be kept for use only in the latter areas of the mission.

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V for victory/victoire, D for defeat/défaite (FFG/EDGE forums).

EMERGENCE

1 player : 9V, 5D
2 players : 9V, 1D
3 players : 4V, 3D
4 players : 4V, 2D

CHINA SHOP / MAGASIN DE PORCELAINE

1 player : 2V, 1D
2 players : 3V-3D
3 players : 1V, 7D
4 players :

BELLY OF THE BEATS / RENCONTRE MACABRE

1 player : 0V, 1D
2 players : 7V, 0D
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 0V, 1D

ROADBLOCKS / BARRAGE ROUTIERS

1 player :
2 players : 4V, 4D
3 players : 3V
4 players :

SCATTERED /

1 player :
2 players : 1V, 1D
3 players :
4 players :
 

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Some (not quite good) updates : Emergence 4p 1V, China shop 4p 1D + my games today with beginners : Scattered 3p 2D, The Hive 4p 1D (but almost won...)

GEARS OF WAR - BOARDGAME FFG/EDGE (for victory/victoire, D for defeat/défaite

EMERGENCE

1 player : 9V, 5D
2 players : 9V, 1D
3 players : 4V, 3D
4 players : 5V, 2D

CHINA SHOP / MAGASIN DE PORCELAINE

1 player : 2V, 1D
2 players : 3V-3D
3 players : 1V, 7D
4 players : 0V, 1D

BELLY OF THE BEATS / RENCONTRE MACABRE

1 player : 0V, 1D
2 players : 7V, 0D
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 0V, 1D

ROADBLOCKS / BARRAGE ROUTIERS

1 player :
2 players : 4V, 4D
3 players : 3V
4 players :

SCATTERED / DES FORCES EPARPILLEES

1 player :
2 players : 1V, 1D
3 players :
4 players : 0V, 1D

THE HIVE / LA RUCHE

1 player :
2 players :
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players :

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This morning, first solo game ever. I won The Hive. Skorge got killed in 2 rounds with the Theron Crosbow, thanks to a general Event generating A/B/C and moving him so he couldn't heal himself.

I played Baird. His special abilities to catch stuff without spending a card + to carry 4 weapons and grenades were really very helpful.

I found it really easier solo than in a 4 game because I played a lot more on movement than with a squad of friends. Maybe we should rethink our group strategy and try to more take advantage of the CGU's possible movement speed.

 

+1 solo victory from Edge's forum on Emergence.

GEARS OF WAR - BOARDGAME FFG/EDGE (for victory/victoire, D for defeat/défaite)

EMERGENCE

1 player : 10V, 5D
2 players : 9V, 1D
3 players : 4V, 3D
4 players : 5V, 2D

CHINA SHOP / MAGASIN DE PORCELAINE

1 player : 2V, 1D
2 players : 3V-3D
3 players : 1V, 7D
4 players : 0V, 1D

BELLY OF THE BEATS / RENCONTRE MACABRE

1 player : 0V, 1D
2 players : 7V, 0D
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 0V, 1D

ROADBLOCKS / BARRAGE ROUTIERS

1 player :
2 players : 4V, 4D
3 players : 3V
4 players :

SCATTERED / DES FORCES EPARPILLEES

1 player :
2 players : 1V, 1D
3 players :
4 players : 0V, 1D

THE HIVE / LA RUCHE

1 player : 1V, 0D
2 players :
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players :

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Willmanx, seems you and I have had fairly similar 2-player/COG results. Currently 2-3 vs Scattered, interestingly each game that has featured Baird has ended in a loss. Guess he really doesn't like hanging on his own. Dom + Cole left for tomorrow, hopefully I can eek out a 3-3 tally after the six plays.

Baird really, really needs ammo, stupid 1 ammo on Lancer just doesn't cut it. How needs 2 ammo on a Snub Pistol anyways?

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Got my copy the other day. Played three solo games so far, all with Marcus Fenix. Beat Emergence and China Shop first try. Lost on Belly of the Beast just now (stupid Lambent Wretches swarmed me bad not halfway in). Overall a very fun game.

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Let's continue to agregate all result from BBG, EDGE and FFG's forurm ! I add your results :)

Yesterday night we won two 2 player game : Baird/Dom on Emergence and then Baird/cole on Scattered

GEARS OF WAR - BOARDGAME FFG/EDGE (for victory/victoire, D for defeat/défaite)

EMERGENCE

1 player : 11V, 5D
2 players : 10V, 1D
3 players : 4V, 3D
4 players : 5V, 2D

CHINA SHOP / MAGASIN DE PORCELAINE

1 player : 3V, 1D
2 players : 3V-3D
3 players : 1V, 7D
4 players : 0V, 1D

BELLY OF THE BEATS / RENCONTRE MACABRE

1 player : 0V, 2D
2 players : 7V, 0D
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 0V, 1D

ROADBLOCKS / BARRAGE ROUTIERS

1 player :
2 players : 4V, 4D
3 players : 3V
4 players :

SCATTERED / DES FORCES EPARPILLEES

1 player :
2 players : 4V, 4D
3 players :
4 players : 0V, 1D

THE HIVE / LA RUCHE

1 player : 1V, 0D
2 players :
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players :

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China Shop 4 players, 1 run, 1 win.

Agonizingly tense in choke points, where we've been swamped by Wretches or mauled by the Berserk (too **** close!), but we made it first time, even if we ended up with 3 COGs bleeding along the way. Lessons learned: Dom should always be leading the way.

 

Belly of the Beast solo: 2 runs, 2 losses.

Lambent Wretches are devastating, and Theron Guards have the nasty habit of blowing away large amounts of cards/life while not dying even if shot with overkill.

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Played the other night with a friend China Shop on two player, and won (Fenix and Baird combo).

Played with another friend, both Baird and Fenix again, on Emergence, and lost first time and then won on second run.

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Happy New Year Everyone !!! Last days before X-files Invasion/Maya end of World/2013 (select your right answer)

Here are the first 2012's results From Edge's, FFG's and BBG's forums !

GEARS OF WAR - BOARDGAME FFG/EDGE (for victory/victoire, D for defeat/défaite)

EMERGENCE

1 player : 14V, 9D
2 players : 26V, 4D
3 players : 5V, 3D
4 players : 7V, 5D

CHINA SHOP / MAGASIN DE PORCELAINE

1 player : 3V, 1D
2 players : 8V, 9D
3 players : 1V, 8D
4 players : 1V, 2D

BELLY OF THE BEATS / RENCONTRE MACABRE

1 player : 0V, 5D
2 players : 13V, 1D
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 2V, 1D

ROADBLOCKS / BARRAGE ROUTIERS

1 player :
2 players : 8V, 8D
3 players : 3V, 0D
4 players :

SCATTERED / DES FORCES EPARPILLEES

1 player :
2 players : 7V, 7D
3 players : 1V, 0D
4 players : 0V, 1D

THE HIVE / LA RUCHE

1 player : 1V, 0D
2 players :
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 1V, 0D
 

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Played first time with 3 people tonight on Belly of the Beast, and barely, by the skin of our teeth, won. The team was Dominic, Fenix, and Baird. The player with Dominic ran way up front and activated the resinator, and the deck ate us slowly away. I recommended the person who was playing Baird to just run to the other side of the map as fast as he could, and he had the whole swarm chasing him as Dominic and I (Fenix) got mowed down by double AI, slowing barely their unstoppable advance.

Key note, and this changes my future submissions, which will only be solo submissions if this thread continues: I have found what makes the game so unbalanced when with more players. The exploration (?) mark symbols on the maps only have one charge unless mission states otherwise (i.e. Emergence), whether you are playing anywhere between the 1 to 4 players.

That makes no sense.

The game is punishing players by letting them bring guests over to try the game out, treating the game as if it were still in solo-mode for exploration pick-ups. I realized this tonight when I was without any ammo tokens and my other group members had mediocre because they were grabbing the one-time exploration cards and drop tokens when they came up. When the session was almost over, I realized had I played solo, that would have been fair, but when you are having a difference in player amount, we each get an AI too for each person, but not an extra exploration for each person. So, the solution is to use ammo tokens to mark how many times an exploration has been used, and the card is THEN discarded when it reaches the starting player amount (weapon-drop tokens from monsters and such is still as normal). This fully balances the game as such as it would be in solo mode.

I have only played Emergence, China Shop, and Belly of the Beast thus far. If there is anything else that ignores players amount and should, change it, but as far as I can see, the only thing missing is Exploration cards are 1 use even in multiplayer, and that is unfair and discontinued in my personal friend circles. I will continue to submit solo games as I play them but submitted this option for those who wish to balance their Gears boardgame too, as I believe that was the original solution desired when the post began.

Comments? Criticisms? Will this make multi-player games fair now in Gears?

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Tromdial said:

Played first time with 3 people tonight on Belly of the Beast, and barely, by the skin of our teeth, won. The team was Dominic, Fenix, and Baird. The player with Dominic ran way up front and activated the resinator, and the deck ate us slowly away. I recommended the person who was playing Baird to just run to the other side of the map as fast as he could, and he had the whole swarm chasing him as Dominic and I (Fenix) got mowed down by double AI, slowing barely their unstoppable advance.

Key note, and this changes my future submissions, which will only be solo submissions if this thread continues: I have found what makes the game so unbalanced when with more players. The exploration (?) mark symbols on the maps only have one charge unless mission states otherwise (i.e. Emergence), whether you are playing anywhere between the 1 to 4 players.

That makes no sense.

The game is punishing players by letting them bring guests over to try the game out, treating the game as if it were still in solo-mode for exploration pick-ups. I realized this tonight when I was without any ammo tokens and my other group members had mediocre because they were grabbing the one-time exploration cards and drop tokens when they came up. When the session was almost over, I realized had I played solo, that would have been fair, but when you are having a difference in player amount, we each get an AI too for each person, but not an extra exploration for each person. So, the solution is to use ammo tokens to mark how many times an exploration has been used, and the card is THEN discarded when it reaches the starting player amount (weapon-drop tokens from monsters and such is still as normal). This fully balances the game as such as it would be in solo mode.

I have only played Emergence, China Shop, and Belly of the Beast thus far. If there is anything else that ignores players amount and should, change it, but as far as I can see, the only thing missing is Exploration cards are 1 use even in multiplayer, and that is unfair and discontinued in my personal friend circles. I will continue to submit solo games as I play them but submitted this option for those who wish to balance their Gears boardgame too, as I believe that was the original solution desired when the post began.

Comments? Criticisms? Will this make multi-player games fair now in Gears?

 

I agree. I though the same thing when I played my first solo game last week. When you have more ammos, your throw more dices and succeed more actions and observations shots.

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Thanks for sharing ! Here we go for today ! (2 more victory on 2 players Emergence with a beginner tonight).

2011/01/03 GEARS OF WAR - BOARDGAMEGEEK/FFG/EDGE (for victory/victoire, D for defeat/défaite)

EMERGENCE

1 player : 16V, 9D
2 players : 28V, 4D
3 players : 5V, 3D
4 players : 7V, 5D

CHINA SHOP / MAGASIN DE PORCELAINE

1 player : 3V, 2D
2 players : 9V, 9D
3 players : 1V, 8D
4 players : 1V, 2D

BELLY OF THE BEAST / RENCONTRE MACABRE

1 player : 0V, 7D
2 players : 15V, 2D
3 players : 0V, 3D
4 players : 2V, 4D

ROADBLOCKS / BARRAGE ROUTIERS

1 player : 1V, 2D
2 players : 9V, 8D
3 players : 3V, 0D
4 players :

SCATTERED / DES FORCES EPARPILLEES

1 player :
2 players : 7V, 7D
3 players : 1V, 0D
4 players : 0V, 1D

THE HIVE / LA RUCHE

1 player : 1V, 0D
2 players :
3 players : 0V, 2D
4 players : 1V, 0D

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